What is the Meaning of This Parable

[cv5]

The fruit has parallels throughout, spanning from obedience all the way to spiritual fruits.

I do not see it quite that way.
Fruits = saved souls
A kind of a harvest like the John 4 harvest.

Jhn 4:35
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

Jhn 4:36
And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

And interestingly (very interestingly) are these concordant passages:
Jesus is thirsty and hungry for what exactly? Food? Drink?
I think not.

Jhn 4:7
There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
Jhn 4:31
In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.
Jhn 4:32
But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.

Mar 11:12
And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
Mat 21:18
Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.

Jhn 19:28
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
Jhn 19:28
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

 

[Musicmaster]

Well isn't the basic message of the prophets to repent or get cut down so very often? I would agree the chapter itself is incredibly prophetic indeed and fulfills many of them while also showing the same visions and questions of the prophets. That's the strength of all parables, they are good for all times because they are fundamental truths put in a story that can be easily understood.

Recognizing that the prophets were speaking to Israel, and not to any of the other nations around Israel, that's how we rightly divide the word of truth. Everything the prophets spoke was to Israel, as can be seen when we study any one of them.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

The fruit tree can be an individual.. The fruit of the tree can be what is produced by Faith.. The attempts of the gardener to fertilize and work on the tree to make it bare fruit can be the working of the Holy Spirit upon the individual to bring them to the Faith that saves...

I have no problem with the other interpretation where the tree represents Israel it can represent a group of people too..

Thank you, adstar.

I do not see it quite that way.
Fruits = saved souls
A kind of a harvest like the John 4 harvest.

Jhn 4:35
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

Jhn 4:36
And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

And interestingly (very interestingly) are these concordant passages:
Jesus is thirsty and hungry for what exactly? Food? Drink?
I think not.

Jhn 4:7
There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
Jhn 4:31
In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.
Jhn 4:32
But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.

Mar 11:12
And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
Mat 21:18
Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.

Jhn 19:28
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
Jhn 19:28
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

I will agree that the term(s) translated as "fruit" in our English translations can and do have many meanings that can be drawn out from the texts.

Thanks for that.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

I believe you are confusing two distinct issues here. You are claiming that there was two distinct Gospels for a period of time. That view will not hold water.

There were not two Gospel messages but two distinct groups of people being taught the same Gospel. The idea of a different Gospel was heavily condemned and only originated with ones outside of the faith. (Gal. 1:6-8, probably by outside Judaizes).

Gal. 2:7, which seems to state the idea of two Gospel messages, does not mean that when analyzed in the original Greek language. Here is the KJV translation: But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; The two places highlighted in RED - of the word "of", causes this confusion. There is no Greek word, in this verse, for either "of". However, without some sort of preposition being added in, the sentence would not read well in English. Additionally, the word "gospel" highlighted in BLUE, does not appear in the original text either. It was supplied by the translators. Taking these things into account, the better translation would be: But on the contrary, they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcision was committed unto me, just as unto Peter for the circumcision; This is also born out in the next verse. The same Lord, working in both men.

Therefore, Peter was responsible for the Gospel message going forth two the Jews and Paul unto the Gentiles but both taught the same Gospel of Jesus Christ.

As we know, the issue of circumcision was settled between Peter and Paul, with all in agreement. (Acts 15). However, many Jewish believers in Christ, still had problems excepting the Gentiles.

I have already dealt with that fallacy of it being two different groups preaching the same Gospel, and I provided scriptural backing for it, but I do appreciate your feedback. Thanks.
MM

 

[cv5]

I will agree that the term(s) translated as "fruit" in our English translations can and do have many meanings that can be drawn out from the texts.
MM

Context:
Temple, Israel, Fig tree, no fruit.

These parables and passages are quite specific to Israel, and IMO have no connection to post-resurrection believers and fruits of the Spirit.

It is clear in the following passages that the ministry of Israel will bear fruit (saved gentile souls) in the tribulation and the millennium after the SC. God here is breathing NEW LIFE into the fig tree (ministry of Israel).....and if God is granting new life to the redeemed Israel (starting with the ministry of the 144,000 and two witnesses), then we can be sure that souls will be saved by it.

Mat 24:32
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

 

[Musicmaster]

Context:
Temple, Israel, Fig tree, no fruit.

These parables and passages are quite specific to Israel, and IMO have no connection to post-resurrection believers and fruits of the Spirit.

It is clear in the following passages that the ministry of Israel will bear fruit (saved gentile souls) in the tribulation and the millennium after the SC. God here is breathing NEW LIFE into the fig tree (ministry of Israel).....and if God is granting new life to the redeemed Israel (starting with the ministry of the 144,000 and two witnesses), then we can be sure that souls will be saved by it.

Mat 24:32
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Brother, I can't argue with you there. Those were absolutely parables and prophesies directed ONLY at Israel. I agree.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Generally speaking, what about those things directed at the body of Christ in contrast to those things directed at Israel at a different time, such as the Gospel of the Kingdom directed TO Israel, which is not currently in operation, but will soon be brought back into play in the tribulation?

Matthew 24:13-14
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

We are not called to have to endure unto the end for something that will be accomplished in the future. That is precisely the message in Matthew 24 above, SPOKEN TO ISRAEL.

Compare the above Gospel of the Kingdom with this Gospel of Grace from Paul:

Ephesians 1:13-14
13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So, looking at the Kingdom Gospel and one of its key, defining features as spoken of by James:

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

To whom was James speaking?

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

That is not to YOU nor to ME, if we BOTH be in Christ Jesus and are a part of His body. We were not alive and kicking when that was written, nor are we the audience to whom he addressed that epistle.

Paul grappled with this famously:

Romans 3:27-28
27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

The Bible never contradicts itself, but it does say different things to different people at different times.

Most professing believers today would say that they'd never go out and stone a homosexual because they rightly divide the word of Truth. What many today are doing is they are failing to apply that same recognition for division because it's within the confines of the "New Testament," that's a failure for remaining consistent for rightly dividing the word of truth.

I'm not going out and looking for those who carry the mark of the beast today because, by rightly dividing the word of truth, it's ludicrous for me to do so, just as I am not looking to purchase a lamb or bull to sacrifice for my sins, because I rightly divide the word of truth. Where sacrificing animals was true and right for a different people at a different time and in a different place, it is not true for us today.

Rightly dividing the word of truth is not a matter of dividing truth from falsehood. It is dividing truth from truth since not all truths apply TO us today, as has now been shown to be the case for today, before, and what it to come.

MM

 

[blueluna5]

I'm sure there are some out there who have loads of commentaries sitting on their home library shelves within which they can look this up and get some unacquainted scholar's opinion. Some of those commentaries can weight upwards of ten pounds, and still be ten pounds of worthless paper that fails much of the time to measure up to the standard of scriptural truth.

So upon your own personal study in the broadness of your knowledge of scripture, to what events in scripture can this possibly have alluded to dare we think outside the box of religious paradigms?

Luke 13:6-9
6 He spake also this parable; A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung [it]:
9 And if it bear fruit, [well]: and if not, [then] after that thou shalt cut it down.

MM

Outside religion.... we are the fig tree. It's telling us to do good and work, giving us "the fruit."

But being lazy and not doing good is not having any fruit. Therefore there's no point to it.

 

[Musicmaster]

Outside religion.... we are the fig tree. It's telling us to do good and work, giving us "the fruit."

But being lazy and not doing good is not having any fruit. Therefore there's no point to it.

I hope you make it to at least post #44 of this thread, and then #67 above.

MM

 

[Magenta]

Recognizing that the prophets were speaking to Israel, and not to any of the other nations around Israel, that's how we
rightly divide the word of truth. Everything the prophets spoke was to Israel, as can be seen when we study any one of them.

MM

Eh? What of Ninevah? .

 

[Musicmaster]

Eh? What of Ninevah? .

(sigh) I didn't mean for it to sound like no prophet ever spoke to Gentiles, not even one word. I should have been more precise, and I apologize for that. Israel killed the prophets because they spoke to them of things they did not want to hear about their own sin, adulteries with other nations, and fornications through the taking of foreign wives, disobedience to the Mosaic Law, etc., Yah was speaking only to them, not the Gentile nations with whom the Israelites were fornicating and adulterating with.

Thanks for pointing out the flaw in the words I chose and the lack of precision of language in relation to the facts.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Interestingly, I started watching a video last night from some "pastor" saying that there is only ONE Gospel throughout the Bible. The error in his beliefs is his thinking that the English word "Gospel" is some sort of theological power house of a word in and of itself, even though its general meaning is simply about a "message," such as declarations, decrees, informative letters...on and on the comparisons can go.

When people start making an adjective or general noun into something on the same level as the unique name of God, that's a problem. That false teacher spoke much on the alleged absolute continuity between the preaching of John the Baptist and Jesus and the original twelve apostles, contrasted with that of the preaching of Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, et al.

So, for the sake of those who have heard nonsense like what that false teacher was spouting in his video, let's just point out some differences between the preaching of John the Baptist and Jesus and the original apostles, contrasted with that of Paul and those thereafter:

Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (John the Baptist)

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

It's interesting that the instruction Jesus gave to the twelve, in the latter parts of His earthly ministry, no longer contained the requirement to "repent," as seen in Matthew 10:7 above, but that's another topic entirely. Notice that the "Kingdom of Heaven" is at hand. That language clearly does not at all convey to the hearer something two thousand years into the future. The followers of Jesus at that time gleaned from His message something of immanency, not thousands of years out into the misty future they could not see through. Greek scholars know this without a doubt, but the layman and arm chair experts in Greek out there will tell us that "at hand" is not something that conveys immanency, which is intellectual dishonesty and/or ignorance.

Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.

If we make use of the warped interpretational rules of some, then when we apply that nonsensical system of rules for interpretation to this verse above, we can then say that "at hand" and "this generation" do not speak of immanency and immediacy in relation to the generation of people at the time it was heard from the original speaker.

Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

There are those who will claim that Jesus, who is timeless, was looking thousands of years into the future, like being in a trance, and speaking of a generation looooong into the future to those standing within earshot... The stretches in dishonesty are staggeringly silly to say the least.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

What detractors are doing is making Jesus out to be a liar, because the Jews standing within earshot understood precisely what He was saying. Therein is one reason they waved palm branches and laid their tunics before Him, declaring Him King at the triumphal entry.

Jesus was well rooted in the "here and now" of those moments of time when He spoke those words, He wasn't recovering from allegedly having smoked a joint with the local potheads. He was speaking from the perspective of "in that moment of time," directly to THOSE people who were a part of a generation about to SEE all those things come to pass, just as Jesus declared...but those things did not transpire, and for good reasons, which ended up being an immeasurable blessing to you and me and all other saints throughout time since those moments.

That which was to come because of Israel's rejection of Christ after His ascension, and was hidden in God from the beginning of the world with not even one prophet having been given insight into the Gospel of Grace, for it is written that Satan and his demons would never have pushed for the crucifixion of Jesus had they known of that mystery that was revealed ONLY to Paul.

Paul never once made mention of the Kingdom of Heaven being "at hand," nor even talking about it to the Gentile believers because He knew that the time had already passed for Israel to have accepted and embraced the Messiah at the stoning of Stephen one year after Christ's ascension. The mystery revealed to him is a clear indication of Israel temporarily having been set aside with blindness in part. (The latter goes unobserved by many in their studies.)

Sorry for the long post. I condensed it as best I could on the fly. Hope it is of blessing to you all.

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I believe you are confusing two distinct issues here. You are claiming that there was two distinct Gospels for a period of time. That view will not hold water.

There were not two Gospel messages but two distinct groups of people being taught the same Gospel. The idea of a different Gospel was heavily condemned and only originated with ones outside of the faith. (Gal. 1:6-8, probably by outside Judaizes).

Gal. 2:7, which seems to state the idea of two Gospel messages, does not mean that when analyzed in the original Greek language. Here is the KJV translation: But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; The two places highlighted in RED - of the word "of", causes this confusion. There is no Greek word, in this verse, for either "of". However, without some sort of preposition being added in, the sentence would not read well in English. Additionally, the word "gospel" highlighted in BLUE, does not appear in the original text either. It was supplied by the translators. Taking these things into account, the better translation would be: But on the contrary, they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcision was committed unto me, just as unto Peter for the circumcision; This is also born out in the next verse. The same Lord, working in both men.

Therefore, Peter was responsible for the Gospel message going forth two the Jews and Paul unto the Gentiles but both taught the same Gospel of Jesus Christ.

As we know, the issue of circumcision was settled between Peter and Paul, with all in agreement. (Acts 15). However, many Jewish believers in Christ, still had problems excepting the Gentiles.

Right there’s one gospel ot was first preached to israel and then those who believed preached the same gospel to everyone

remember however all of the apostles were called to preach the gospel to all people and Peter is actually the apostles who converted gentiles at the first after God sent him to them giving him the dream that they also were clean.

“And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul was a Roman citizen by birth , it was practical to make him the lead to the gentiles as well as Paul’s deep desire to reach new people with the gospel tbat hadn’t heard yet

your correct there’s one gospel Israel heard it first and then preached it to the world the audience was seperate before the gospel now the audience is all people of earth

 

[Musicmaster]

Right there’s one gospel ot was first preached to israel and then those who believed preached the same gospel to everyone

remember however all of the apostles were called to preach the gospel to all people and Peter is actually the apostles who converted gentiles at the first after God sent him to them giving him the dream that they also were clean.

“And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul was a Roman citizen by birth , it was practical to make him the lead to the gentiles as well as Paul’s deep desire to reach new people with the gospel tbat hadn’t heard yet

your correct there’s one gospel Israel heard it first and then preached it to the world the audience was seperate before the gospel now the audience is all people of earth

I don't see Paul preaching the Kingdom Gospel to the Gentiles. Do you? I haven't seen any quotes of such, and I'm left wondering at the silence. What we ARE told, even though Peter ministered to very few Gentiles by comparison, is this:

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;

So, taking one little example of Peter addressing Gentiles, and blowing it up into Peter being a minister unto the Gentiles in general when that was actually Paul's responsibility once the Lord had prepared him adequately for that task after revealing to Paul what Peter never knew anything about until hearing it from Paul, with Peter's assignment was as a minister to the "circumcision," which was Jews, as specifically stated in the above verse, we have to question such over-exaggerations of scope and assignment completely blown out of proportions.

So, yes, the Gospel shifted from the Kingdom to Grace, with the Kingdom Gospel falling away into utter silence under the dominance of the Gospel of Grace. The Kingdom Gospel required works, where the Grace Gospel requires no such thing given that good works toward others is a natural outflow of the grace granted unto us in this dispensation.

For those who may freak out over the use of the term "dispensation," as if that were an evil term, consider these:

1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (Notice that Paul did not say US in the sense of it including the original twelve apostles at that time.)

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

It's funny that there are some out there, generally speaking, who shiver with revulsion when they hear that term...

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I don't see Paul preaching the Kingdom Gospel to the Gentiles. Do you? I haven't seen any quotes of such, and I'm left wondering at the silence. What we ARE told, even though Peter ministered to very few Gentiles by comparison, is this:

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;

So, taking one little example of Peter addressing Gentiles, and blowing it up into Peter being a minister unto the Gentiles in general when that was actually Paul's responsibility once the Lord had prepared him adequately for that task after revealing to Paul what Peter never knew anything about until hearing it from Paul, with Peter's assignment was as a minister to the "circumcision," which was Jews, as specifically stated in the above verse, we have to question such over-exaggerations of scope and assignment completely blown out of proportions.

So, yes, the Gospel shifted from the Kingdom to Grace, with the Kingdom Gospel falling away into utter silence under the dominance of the Gospel of Grace. The Kingdom Gospel required works, where the Grace Gospel requires no such thing given that good works toward others is a natural outflow of the grace granted unto us in this dispensation.

For those who may freak out over the use of the term "dispensation," as if that were an evil term, consider these:

1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (Notice that Paul did not say US in the sense of it including the original twelve apostles at that time.)

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

It's funny that there are some out there, generally speaking, who shiver with revulsion when they hear that term...

MM

“don't see Paul preaching the Kingdom Gospel to the Gentiles. Do you? “

yes of course it’s in all of his writings but here’s an overview

“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i dont think you will acknowledge it but yes he was definately preaching the one and only gospel of Gods kingdom here are some clear examples

“And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20:25-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:8‬ ‭

“For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:20‬ ‭

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭

“for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s what they all preached Paul is no different

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we started here with Jesus word about it and believes the lord ….it’s easy to understand

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul was a servant and apostle of Jesus selected to preach the gospel to Jew and gentile no more and certainly no less just like the other apostles.

Paul is one of these

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

everything he was talking about relates to the gospel of the kingdom it’s full of grace and truth and righteousness and faith and salvetion for those who believe but we can’t remove the gospel and then select sentences from Paul claiming. A different gospel that isn’t the gospel God sent forth for salvstion of all people

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The problem is o dont think you’ll acknolwedge that Paul was clearly preaching the gospel of Gods kingdom which began other the lord who preached it first and then sent out witnesses to everyone else

“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the idea paul preached some new different gospel is a terribly erroneous thought bit with men like Paul Ellis and Joseph prince teaching it to people it’s reletively popular even though the Bible clearly rebukes the idea without a doubt

One way to reject the gospel is to create something else and call it the gospel

 

[Musicmaster]

Another Gospel that will arise in the tribulation is the "everlasting Gospel." That it is called the "everlasting" Gospel means that it had a beginning, with its FIRST mention in Revelation 14:

Revelation 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Some will say that because those are things that people have been doing for eons, that does not change the fact that the REQUIREMENT of the strength of a Gospel message, for these things, this is special, and had its beginning as a requirement for salvation at about the middle of the tribulation after Satan and his angels had been kicked out of Heaven down onto the earth, and confined here. Ever lasting clearly indicates that it had a beginning, because that Gospel is not said to be "eternal," which would have indicated it being timeless, and therefore with no beginning.

Words mean things.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

“don't see Paul preaching the Kingdom Gospel to the Gentiles. Do you? “

yes of course it’s in all of his writings but here’s an overview

“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i dont think you will acknowledge it but yes he was definately preaching the one and only gospel of Gods kingdom here are some clear examples

“And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20:25-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:8‬ ‭

“For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:20‬ ‭

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭

“for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s what they all preached Paul is no different

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we started here with Jesus word about it and believes the lord ….it’s easy to understand

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul was a servant and apostle of Jesus selected to preach the gospel to Jew and gentile no more and certainly no less just like the other apostles.

Paul is one of these

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

everything he was talking about relates to the gospel of the kingdom it’s full of grace and truth and righteousness and faith and salvetion for those who believe but we can’t remove the gospel and then select sentences from Paul claiming. A different gospel that isn’t the gospel God sent forth for salvstion of all people

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The problem is o dont think you’ll acknolwedge that Paul was clearly preaching the gospel of Gods kingdom which began other the lord who preached it first and then sent out witnesses to everyone else

“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the idea paul preached some new different gospel is a terribly erroneous thought bit with men like Paul Ellis and Joseph prince teaching it to people it’s reletively popular even though the Bible clearly rebukes the idea without a doubt

One way to reject the gospel is to create something else and call it the gospel

The play on weaknesses in clarity that exists within our English translations makes it easy to foist doctrines that don't align as assumed within the Greek. This is they I am not even a KJV ONLY proponent. So, I am not rejecting your premise on the basis of anything I WANT to believe, for I have already made the case in showing the differences between what Jesus and the apostles taught, and what Jesus gave to Paul to teach unto the Gentiles. So, if anyone is ignoring anything, it is YOU who overlooked the distinctions in content between the teachings in order to try and uphold the idea of a singular Gospel content throughout all the assignments and dispensations. Nobody here is running out to sacrifice animals for sin because they know that the dispensation of Law is no longer laid upon us as a requirement, with the same being true for stoning homosexuals and rebellious children. So, the Greek in relation to Paul's message about what is translated as the "kingdom" is this from Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

"Acts 8:12; κηρύσσειν τὴν βασ. τ. θ. Luke 9:2; Acts 20:25; Acts 28:31" Kingdom of God. Where is that Kingdom? We know that the Kingdom of Heaven is on earth in the future, so where is the Kingdom of God? WHAT is the Kingdom of God?

Those Jews and Gentiles under the Gospel of Grace are destined for...where?

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

We are destined for dwelling in eternity in the Heavens with the Lord, not on the new earth nor in the new Jerusalem.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

So, given that Paul said that justification is by faith, where James said that it is by works, and then to say that they all were true for all people for all of time, all those people, dare they remain consistent with what they're saying, may as well also begin sacrificing animals for sin, stoning homosexuals and rebellious children, and even seeking revenge upon those who killed a relative through negligence (manslaughter), because subjectively breaking down the barriers of dispensational differences is completely nonsensical and a dishonest handling of scripture.

The intellectual gyrations one must apply in order to say that one saying justification is by works and other saying that justification is by faith, and claim they are both true for all people for all of time, under the assumption that they can both can be harmonized at the expense of honestly acknowledging the differences between the groups of people to whom they were addressed and WHEN they were addressed, which was not at all concurrent, we're left with false doctrines running wild, maintaining division between people rather than to uphold the divisions of truth within scripture that we ALL practice in relation to the Mosaic Law, but then sometimes fail to apply within the NT and it divisions of truth.

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The play on weaknesses in clarity that exists within our English translations makes it easy to foist doctrines that don't align as assumed within the Greek. This is they I am not even a KJV ONLY proponent. So, I am not rejecting your premise on the basis of anything I WANT to believe, for I have already made the case in showing the differences between what Jesus and the apostles taught, and what Jesus gave to Paul to teach unto the Gentiles. So, if anyone is ignoring anything, it is YOU who overlooked the distinctions in content between the teachings in order to try and uphold the idea of a singular Gospel content throughout all the assignments and dispensations. Nobody here is running out to sacrifice animals for sin because they know that the dispensation of Law is no longer laid upon us as a requirement, with the same being true for stoning homosexuals and rebellious children. So, the Greek in relation to Paul's message about what is translated as the "kingdom" is this from Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

"Acts 8:12; κηρύσσειν τὴν βασ. τ. θ. Luke 9:2; Acts 20:25; Acts 28:31" Kingdom of God. Where is that Kingdom? We know that the Kingdom of Heaven is on earth in the future, so where is the Kingdom of God? WHAT is the Kingdom of God?

Those Jews and Gentiles under the Gospel of Grace are destined for...where?

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

We are destined for dwelling in eternity in the Heavens with the Lord, not on the new earth nor in the new Jerusalem.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

So, given that Paul said that justification is by faith, where James said that it is by works, and then to say that they all were true for all people for all of time, all those people, dare they remain consistent with what they're saying, may as well also begin sacrificing animals for sin, stoning homosexuals and rebellious children, and even seeking revenge upon those who killed a relative through negligence (manslaughter), because subjectively breaking down the barriers of dispensational differences is completely nonsensical and a dishonest handling of scripture.

The intellectual gyrations one must apply in order to say that one saying justification is by works and other saying that justification is by faith, and claim they are both true for all people for all of time, under the assumption that they can both can be harmonized at the expense of honestly acknowledging the differences between the groups of people to whom they were addressed and WHEN they were addressed, which was not at all concurrent, we're left with false doctrines running wild, maintaining division between people rather than to uphold the divisions of truth within scripture that we ALL practice in relation to the Mosaic Law, but then sometimes fail to apply within the NT and it divisions of truth.

MM

“The play on weaknesses in clarity that exists within our English translations makes it easy to foist doctrines that don't align as assumed within the Greek. “

i see “ let’s get away from all those clear scriptures telling us what Paul was preaching only the ones I accept are translated right that darn kjv and those world renown 54 translators over seven years lol …..”

“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭NIV‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭ASV‬‬

“This good news of the kingdom [the gospel] will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end [of the age] will come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭AMP‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭BSB‬‬

“This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭CSB‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV


“For two whole years Paul stayed there in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. He proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ—with all boldness and without hindrance!”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“And Paul lived there for two full years [at his own expense] in his own rented lodging and welcomed all who came to him, preaching and proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness and boldness, unhindered and unrestrained.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭AMP‬‬

“Paul stayed there two full years in his own rented house, welcoming all who came to visit him. Boldly and freely he proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭BSB‬‬


your argument requires someone to disregard the Bible and wait until you properly “ divide the truth for them “ and explain tbat what they are reading in the Bible isnt correct but you’ll tell them the secret truth

I thought the Joseph prince Paul Ellis thing was done and everyone that read the bible had basically exposed those books by now ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The play on weaknesses in clarity that exists within our English translations makes it easy to foist doctrines that don't align as assumed within the Greek. This is they I am not even a KJV ONLY proponent. So, I am not rejecting your premise on the basis of anything I WANT to believe, for I have already made the case in showing the differences between what Jesus and the apostles taught, and what Jesus gave to Paul to teach unto the Gentiles. So, if anyone is ignoring anything, it is YOU who overlooked the distinctions in content between the teachings in order to try and uphold the idea of a singular Gospel content throughout all the assignments and dispensations. Nobody here is running out to sacrifice animals for sin because they know that the dispensation of Law is no longer laid upon us as a requirement, with the same being true for stoning homosexuals and rebellious children. So, the Greek in relation to Paul's message about what is translated as the "kingdom" is this from Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

"Acts 8:12; κηρύσσειν τὴν βασ. τ. θ. Luke 9:2; Acts 20:25; Acts 28:31" Kingdom of God. Where is that Kingdom? We know that the Kingdom of Heaven is on earth in the future, so where is the Kingdom of God? WHAT is the Kingdom of God?

Those Jews and Gentiles under the Gospel of Grace are destined for...where?

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

We are destined for dwelling in eternity in the Heavens with the Lord, not on the new earth nor in the new Jerusalem.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

So, given that Paul said that justification is by faith, where James said that it is by works, and then to say that they all were true for all people for all of time, all those people, dare they remain consistent with what they're saying, may as well also begin sacrificing animals for sin, stoning homosexuals and rebellious children, and even seeking revenge upon those who killed a relative through negligence (manslaughter), because subjectively breaking down the barriers of dispensational differences is completely nonsensical and a dishonest handling of scripture.

The intellectual gyrations one must apply in order to say that one saying justification is by works and other saying that justification is by faith, and claim they are both true for all people for all of time, under the assumption that they can both can be harmonized at the expense of honestly acknowledging the differences between the groups of people to whom they were addressed and WHEN they were addressed, which was not at all concurrent, we're left with false doctrines running wild, maintaining division between people rather than to uphold the divisions of truth within scripture that we ALL practice in relation to the Mosaic Law, but then sometimes fail to apply within the NT and it divisions of truth.

MM

“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1:6-8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

are you saying Paul’s talking about this being a curse and false gospel ?

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul to the Jews

“They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus. Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe.

Paul to the gentiles because many Jews rejected it

““Therefore I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen! For two whole years Paul stayed there in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. He proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ—with all boldness and without hindrance!”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:23-24, 30-31‬ ‭

Paul’s summary of his ministry and audience standing trial before Agrippa

““So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.

( he preached it to Jew and gentile the same message )

That is why some Jews seized me in the temple courts and tried to kill me.

( Paul was including gentiles in Gods kingdom like Jesus said but the unbelieving Jews hated him for it like they did Jesus )

But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen— that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:19-23‬ ‭

there’s just the gospel it’s forever and for everyone paul is a servant and messenger like the other apostles

“Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his earthly recognition was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was revealed to be the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.

Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1

 

[Musicmaster]

“The play on weaknesses in clarity that exists within our English translations makes it easy to foist doctrines that don't align as assumed within the Greek. “

i see “ let’s get away from all those clear scriptures telling us what Paul was preaching only the ones I accept are translated right that darn kjv and those world renown 54 translators over seven years lol …..”

“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭NIV‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭ASV‬‬

“This good news of the kingdom [the gospel] will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end [of the age] will come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭AMP‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭BSB‬‬

“This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭CSB‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV


“For two whole years Paul stayed there in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. He proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ—with all boldness and without hindrance!”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“And Paul lived there for two full years [at his own expense] in his own rented lodging and welcomed all who came to him, preaching and proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness and boldness, unhindered and unrestrained.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭AMP‬‬

“Paul stayed there two full years in his own rented house, welcoming all who came to visit him. Boldly and freely he proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭BSB‬‬


your argument requires someone to disregard the Bible and wait until you properly “ divide the truth for them “ and explain tbat what they are reading in the Bible isnt correct but you’ll tell them the secret truth

I thought the Joseph prince Paul Ellis thing was done and everyone that read the bible had basically exposed those books by now ?

As with many, you continue to ignore the differences that I pointed out AS glaring distinctions, and that's unfortunate, but it's on you, not me. Let me know when you begin to sacrifice animals for sin. I'd like to see that for myself and where you get the priests since you seem to believe that there are no distinctions between gospel messages to differing people at differing times in differing places.

Emboldenbing and enlarging the text doesn't make your interpretations any more true than to emblazon it all in the sky with airplanes and smoke.

If you choose to follow James and the twelve tribes to whom he was ministering at that time, then go for it. I'm not here to take your freedom away from you in that regard, but be very careful when preaching that to others, because there's a grave penalty for preaching another Gospel not intended for us today, just as the Gospel of the Mosaic Law is not for us today.

MM