What is the Meaning of This Parable
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Ok, so here it is:
The owner, Christ, who owns all the earth and the universe, entered the orchard and went to a fig tree, representative of Israel, and found no fruit, and said that this had been going on for three years by then.
This is representative of when Christ came to the earth in human form, walked among men in Israel, ministered and ministered to them, and no fruit of faith nor acceptance coming forth from the nation as a whole.
So, he was ready to cut down the tree, but the "dresser" convinced the owner to allow him to fertilize and cultivate the soil and water it for the next year to see if it would bear fruit.
This is representative of the Father saying to the Son to allow Him to work with the nation Israel for one more year, and see if it will bear fruit. If we dare look at timeframes, Stephen was stoned one year after Christ had been resurrected and ascended into Heaven. If you read again what Stephen said to the leaders of Israel, to the elders and religious leaders, he scathed them for their having crucified the Messiah, having killed the prophets, et al.
That seems to fit like a glove, does it not?
The latter is the point at which the owner of the orchard cut that tree down for its unfruitfulness.
Now, please don't think that this is at all the Lord being completely through with Israel. No. He has simply set her aside for the time being in relation to His Kingdom Gospel. As Israel declined, the Lord implemented the Gospel of Grace, which was the mystery that was hidden in God from the creation of the earth, and thus hidden from even the prophets of old and Satan and all the angels.
1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
The Lord setting aside Israel for this time to offer grace unto the Gentiles, that is a blessing beyond measure and compare. The Gospel of Grace is indeed a blessing that is only enhanced when one considers the operative requirements for those who were and will be once again under the Gospel of the Kingdom, where they will have have to "endure unto the end," and THEN they SHALL be saved. Notice how that is future tense for their salvation, not present or past. They SHALL be saved...
We today, by faith, are sealed by Holy Spirit unto salvation, not that we SHALL be saved, but that we ARE saved right now, and sealed by the perfect Power of Holy Spirit:
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
MM
The owner, Christ, who owns all the earth and the universe, entered the orchard and went to a fig tree, representative of Israel, and found no fruit, and said that this had been going on for three years by then.
This is representative of when Christ came to the earth in human form, walked among men in Israel, ministered and ministered to them, and no fruit of faith nor acceptance coming forth from the nation as a whole.
So, he was ready to cut down the tree, but the "dresser" convinced the owner to allow him to fertilize and cultivate the soil and water it for the next year to see if it would bear fruit.
This is representative of the Father saying to the Son to allow Him to work with the nation Israel for one more year, and see if it will bear fruit. If we dare look at timeframes, Stephen was stoned one year after Christ had been resurrected and ascended into Heaven. If you read again what Stephen said to the leaders of Israel, to the elders and religious leaders, he scathed them for their having crucified the Messiah, having killed the prophets, et al.
That seems to fit like a glove, does it not?
The latter is the point at which the owner of the orchard cut that tree down for its unfruitfulness.
Now, please don't think that this is at all the Lord being completely through with Israel. No. He has simply set her aside for the time being in relation to His Kingdom Gospel. As Israel declined, the Lord implemented the Gospel of Grace, which was the mystery that was hidden in God from the creation of the earth, and thus hidden from even the prophets of old and Satan and all the angels.
1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
The Lord setting aside Israel for this time to offer grace unto the Gentiles, that is a blessing beyond measure and compare. The Gospel of Grace is indeed a blessing that is only enhanced when one considers the operative requirements for those who were and will be once again under the Gospel of the Kingdom, where they will have have to "endure unto the end," and THEN they SHALL be saved. Notice how that is future tense for their salvation, not present or past. They SHALL be saved...
We today, by faith, are sealed by Holy Spirit unto salvation, not that we SHALL be saved, but that we ARE saved right now, and sealed by the perfect Power of Holy Spirit:
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
MM
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This parable, as all parables, is rife with symbolism. But those can also take a back seat to the parallelism which is the focus of the parable.
Jesus uses a lot of the visual world around the people for stark contrast of explanations that they could see to understand complex concepts and issues.
The fig tree is symbolic of religiosity as this symbol was used in Genesis as what Adam and Eve used to make their own clothes which God deemed as insufficient and unsuitable. Because fig leaves used as clothes do not wear very well.
Fig trees are almost bushes classified as trees. They do get tall but also very bushy taking up a lot of space in a "vineyard" by comparison of grape vines which take up a smaller footprint but can produce a good harvest in three years. Usually grape vine starts require three years for successful production of grapes...even to this day. You might get a few grapes the second year but not like after the third year. Now we have been given the scenario of a fig tree, taking up the space of at least three to four grape vines for three years...when if the space was used for grapes the owner would be getting production out of the land.
Fertilizer....requires water to reach the roots. Water is a symbol of Laws. The conclusion of the helper is that the soil is poor quality. Some ammendment is necessary. This symbol concerning the soil is no different from the parable of the Sower.
Every nation had its symbolic tree. Israel was a fig tree, Rome was an oak tree, Lebanon/Syria was a cedar tree. The list goes on.
The goal of farming is always fruit and not just leaves. If a planting defies its purpose and is unproductive then it is no better than a weed in the vineyard. Time to pull it up and throw it away. Plant something else. Jesus is foretelling the complete destruction of the nation-state of Israel including the Temple.
Jesus made an even more drastic illustration by commanding the fig tree to die during passion week because it had no fruit outside its season for fruit.
Jesus uses a lot of the visual world around the people for stark contrast of explanations that they could see to understand complex concepts and issues.
The fig tree is symbolic of religiosity as this symbol was used in Genesis as what Adam and Eve used to make their own clothes which God deemed as insufficient and unsuitable. Because fig leaves used as clothes do not wear very well.
Fig trees are almost bushes classified as trees. They do get tall but also very bushy taking up a lot of space in a "vineyard" by comparison of grape vines which take up a smaller footprint but can produce a good harvest in three years. Usually grape vine starts require three years for successful production of grapes...even to this day. You might get a few grapes the second year but not like after the third year. Now we have been given the scenario of a fig tree, taking up the space of at least three to four grape vines for three years...when if the space was used for grapes the owner would be getting production out of the land.
Fertilizer....requires water to reach the roots. Water is a symbol of Laws. The conclusion of the helper is that the soil is poor quality. Some ammendment is necessary. This symbol concerning the soil is no different from the parable of the Sower.
Every nation had its symbolic tree. Israel was a fig tree, Rome was an oak tree, Lebanon/Syria was a cedar tree. The list goes on.
The goal of farming is always fruit and not just leaves. If a planting defies its purpose and is unproductive then it is no better than a weed in the vineyard. Time to pull it up and throw it away. Plant something else. Jesus is foretelling the complete destruction of the nation-state of Israel including the Temple.
Jesus made an even more drastic illustration by commanding the fig tree to die during passion week because it had no fruit outside its season for fruit.
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Awesome.
The thing is.....that particular parable must never be considered to be isolated.
It is not.....not by a longshot.
In fact it concatenates with Genesis 3 and end time prophecy as regards the nation Israel. Among many other things and passages.
That is quite some breadth and an enormous span is it not?
The thing is.....that particular parable must never be considered to be isolated.
It is not.....not by a longshot.
In fact it concatenates with Genesis 3 and end time prophecy as regards the nation Israel. Among many other things and passages.
That is quite some breadth and an enormous span is it not?
As I stated in post #44, that parable has actual ties to events spanning the time specified, which conforms to what you stated, in that it has breadth and span associated with its core and its ties to the resulting two millennia that came soon after to this very day as a consequence to Israel, and a benefit to the world of the Gentiles.
MM
MM
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What it means is that someone who is unprofitable to God will be cut down and cast into the fire. One suggests that maybe the reason the person is unprofitable is because they have not been blessed. So therefore they attempt to bless the person, as like the vinedresser fertilizing the tree that does not bear fruit. Maybe it will be that when the person sees the blessings that they will be profitable to the Lord, and if so then well, but if not then there will be no excuse for them but to cut them down and throw them into the fire. It is somewhat similar to the saying of John the Baptist earlier in the Gospels when he says that the axe is laid at the root and all unprofittable trees will be cut down and fed into the fire. As in that chapter as in this chapter preceding the parable is the idea that people need to repent and that also if they do not then there is always an eternity of hell awaiting.
I agree that parables can indeed have expansive applications across many realms of life, and this item in Luke 13, although declared to be a parable, it also was prophetic in nature when we can look at events future to its revelation with things that just fit too well to be ignored, as some are prone to do when its doesn't leap out at them from their not having studied the material being pointed out.
You made some good points in relation to the unprofitableness leading to the need for someone like the "dresser." Yes, that does indeed appear to be a potential candidate for consideration, but my treatise here is more in relation to where the rubber met the roadway in the events that soon after unfolded from the time Yahshuah uttered the words recorded in that parable.
Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on this. Please understand that I'm not disagreeing with you, because the richness of the expansiveness that vc5 pointed out about the word of God in all its expressions are all too voluminous for anyone to capture in even one massive volume of writing. That's what makes the word of the Lord so alive and vibrant, apart from the very Spirit who enlivens it.
Amen
MM
You made some good points in relation to the unprofitableness leading to the need for someone like the "dresser." Yes, that does indeed appear to be a potential candidate for consideration, but my treatise here is more in relation to where the rubber met the roadway in the events that soon after unfolded from the time Yahshuah uttered the words recorded in that parable.
Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on this. Please understand that I'm not disagreeing with you, because the richness of the expansiveness that vc5 pointed out about the word of God in all its expressions are all too voluminous for anyone to capture in even one massive volume of writing. That's what makes the word of the Lord so alive and vibrant, apart from the very Spirit who enlivens it.
Amen
MM
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The fig tree represents Israel. Israel was meant to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and become spiritually fruitful. Instead it became barren and was judged in 70 AD. That is what the parable teaches. Christ pleaded with Israel to repent but they would not. "A certain man" is God, and the "dresser" is Christ.
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Good points. Of interest in this vein is that Israel had long since been set aside in order for the Gospel of grace to become the active gospel for Gentiles and Jews alike, because under the Gospel of grace, the distinctions fall away in Christ. We are all saved by the same Gospel after the Kingdom Gospel had been laid aside until the end of the times of the Gentiles.
There is some resistance out there claiming that the same Gospel was active in the Gospels as what was active throughout the epistles. I simply must question, then, the motives behind such a claim, because there were two Gospels at play at the same time through a short transitional period that we can see here:
Galatians 2:6-9
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person
for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
We see here that two distinct Gospels were in play at that time as an overlap until the Gospel of grace became the one and only active Gospel until the end of the times of the Gentiles, so the distinction is evident.
Some have said to me that this only addresses to what groupings the various of the apostles were assigned to preach the one and same Gospel, but that simply cannot be the case given the content of each one, with one requiring such things as repentance, baptism and enduring unto the very end so that they "SHALL" be saved, and therefore not sealed by Holy Spirit as is the case under the Gospel of grace.
I too at one time liked to believe that everything in the way the Lord does things all fit in the nice, neat little, warm, fuzee box of my preconceived ideas about how the Lord operates in this world and in the heavenlies. What a shock it was to me to see that I was trying to define the Lord and His modus operandi rather than the other way around.
MM
There is some resistance out there claiming that the same Gospel was active in the Gospels as what was active throughout the epistles. I simply must question, then, the motives behind such a claim, because there were two Gospels at play at the same time through a short transitional period that we can see here:
Galatians 2:6-9
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person
for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
We see here that two distinct Gospels were in play at that time as an overlap until the Gospel of grace became the one and only active Gospel until the end of the times of the Gentiles, so the distinction is evident.
Some have said to me that this only addresses to what groupings the various of the apostles were assigned to preach the one and same Gospel, but that simply cannot be the case given the content of each one, with one requiring such things as repentance, baptism and enduring unto the very end so that they "SHALL" be saved, and therefore not sealed by Holy Spirit as is the case under the Gospel of grace.
I too at one time liked to believe that everything in the way the Lord does things all fit in the nice, neat little, warm, fuzee box of my preconceived ideas about how the Lord operates in this world and in the heavenlies. What a shock it was to me to see that I was trying to define the Lord and His modus operandi rather than the other way around.
MM
“We are all saved by the same Gospel after the Kingdom Gospel had been laid aside until the end of the times of the Gentiles.”
This is wrong . There’s one gospel that God spoke when he came all his promises are in it . It will never change gentiles we’re added into the audience and invited because the Israelites rejected the invite
“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.”
Galatians 1:6-7 KJV
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
For the law was given by Moses,
but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
John 1:14, 16-17 K
“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:1, 14-15 KJV
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 KJV
“And the gospel must first be published among all nations.”
Mark 13:10
“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
Acts 28:30-31 KJV
“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”
Romans 1:1, 3-5 KJV
Jesus preached the gospel then the Israelites who believed preached it to everyone else
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
Paul was one of Jesus servants spreading the one and only gospel to everyone after Jesus ascended he personally chose Paul as a wot eas like Peter and James John Ananias or Silas or Timothy ect those Israelites who believed the lord then preached to others of all nations fulfilling what he said about everyone hearing the same gospel regardless of nationality
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
there’s just the gospel , Paul calls it many things one is the gospel of grace others are
“according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to our trust.”
1 Timothy 1:11 KJV
“and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;”
Ephesians 6:15
“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,”
Romans 1:1 KJV
“which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.”
Galatians 1:7 KJV
“What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.”
1 Corinthians 9:18
“in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:”
2 Thessalonians 1:8 KJV
“Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?”
2 Corinthians 11:7 KJV
“For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;”
Romans 1:9 KJV
its the same gospel it was first preached to Jews then gentile people
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
Romans 1:16 KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
Ephesians 1:13 KJV
“in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV
“for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;”
Colossians 1:5 KJV
he’s not talking about a different gospel each time he uses a variant in his wording he’s just showing us the gospel is full of grace and truth and hope and promises of God and salvstion and the holt ghost and faith ect
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
For the law was given by Moses,
but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
This is wrong . There’s one gospel that God spoke when he came all his promises are in it . It will never change gentiles we’re added into the audience and invited because the Israelites rejected the invite
“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.”
Galatians 1:6-7 KJV
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
For the law was given by Moses,
but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
John 1:14, 16-17 K
“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:1, 14-15 KJV
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 KJV
“And the gospel must first be published among all nations.”
Mark 13:10
“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
Acts 28:30-31 KJV
“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”
Romans 1:1, 3-5 KJV
Jesus preached the gospel then the Israelites who believed preached it to everyone else
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
Paul was one of Jesus servants spreading the one and only gospel to everyone after Jesus ascended he personally chose Paul as a wot eas like Peter and James John Ananias or Silas or Timothy ect those Israelites who believed the lord then preached to others of all nations fulfilling what he said about everyone hearing the same gospel regardless of nationality
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
there’s just the gospel , Paul calls it many things one is the gospel of grace others are
“according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to our trust.”
1 Timothy 1:11 KJV
“and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;”
Ephesians 6:15
“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,”
Romans 1:1 KJV
“which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.”
Galatians 1:7 KJV
“What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.”
1 Corinthians 9:18
“in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:”
2 Thessalonians 1:8 KJV
“Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?”
2 Corinthians 11:7 KJV
“For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;”
Romans 1:9 KJV
its the same gospel it was first preached to Jews then gentile people
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
Romans 1:16 KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
Ephesians 1:13 KJV
“in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV
“for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;”
Colossians 1:5 KJV
he’s not talking about a different gospel each time he uses a variant in his wording he’s just showing us the gospel is full of grace and truth and hope and promises of God and salvstion and the holt ghost and faith ect
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
For the law was given by Moses,
but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
Well isn't the basic message of the prophets to repent or get cut down so very often? I would agree the chapter itself is incredibly prophetic indeed and fulfills many of them while also showing the same visions and questions of the prophets. That's the strength of all parables, they are good for all times because they are fundamental truths put in a story that can be easily understood.
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Good points. Of interest in this vein is that Israel had long since been set aside in order for the Gospel of grace to become the active gospel for Gentiles and Jews alike, because under the Gospel of grace, the distinctions fall away in Christ. We are all saved by the same Gospel after the Kingdom Gospel had been laid aside until the end of the times of the Gentiles.
There is some resistance out there claiming that the same Gospel was active in the Gospels as what was active throughout the epistles. I simply must question, then, the motives behind such a claim, because there were two Gospels at play at the same time through a short transitional period that we can see here:
Galatians 2:6-9
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
We see here that two distinct Gospels were in play at that time as an overlap until the Gospel of grace became the one and only active Gospel until the end of the times of the Gentiles, so the distinction is evident.
Some have said to me that this only addresses to what groupings the various of the apostles were assigned to preach the one and same Gospel, but that simply cannot be the case given the content of each one, with one requiring such things as repentance, baptism and enduring unto the very end so that they "SHALL" be saved, and therefore not sealed by Holy Spirit as is the case under the Gospel of grace.
I too at one time liked to believe that everything in the way the Lord does things all fit in the nice, neat little, warm, fuzee box of my preconceived ideas about how the Lord operates in this world and in the heavenlies. What a shock it was to me to see that I was trying to define the Lord and His modus operandi rather than the other way around.
MM
There is some resistance out there claiming that the same Gospel was active in the Gospels as what was active throughout the epistles. I simply must question, then, the motives behind such a claim, because there were two Gospels at play at the same time through a short transitional period that we can see here:
Galatians 2:6-9
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person
for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
We see here that two distinct Gospels were in play at that time as an overlap until the Gospel of grace became the one and only active Gospel until the end of the times of the Gentiles, so the distinction is evident.
Some have said to me that this only addresses to what groupings the various of the apostles were assigned to preach the one and same Gospel, but that simply cannot be the case given the content of each one, with one requiring such things as repentance, baptism and enduring unto the very end so that they "SHALL" be saved, and therefore not sealed by Holy Spirit as is the case under the Gospel of grace.
I too at one time liked to believe that everything in the way the Lord does things all fit in the nice, neat little, warm, fuzee box of my preconceived ideas about how the Lord operates in this world and in the heavenlies. What a shock it was to me to see that I was trying to define the Lord and His modus operandi rather than the other way around.
MM
There were not two Gospel messages but two distinct groups of people being taught the same Gospel. The idea of a different Gospel was heavily condemned and only originated with ones outside of the faith. (Gal. 1:6-8, probably by outside Judaizes).
Gal. 2:7, which seems to state the idea of two Gospel messages, does not mean that when analyzed in the original Greek language. Here is the KJV translation: But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; The two places highlighted in RED - of the word "of", causes this confusion. There is no Greek word, in this verse, for either "of". However, without some sort of preposition being added in, the sentence would not read well in English. Additionally, the word "gospel" highlighted in BLUE, does not appear in the original text either. It was supplied by the translators. Taking these things into account, the better translation would be: But on the contrary, they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcision was committed unto me, just as unto Peter for the circumcision; This is also born out in the next verse. The same Lord, working in both men.
Therefore, Peter was responsible for the Gospel message going forth two the Jews and Paul unto the Gentiles but both taught the same Gospel of Jesus Christ.
As we know, the issue of circumcision was settled between Peter and Paul, with all in agreement. (Acts 15). However, many Jewish believers in Christ, still had problems excepting the Gentiles.
I only have a minute here... so to save time I'm going to post a link to a very brief post I'd made (re: Lk13 parable) a few years back:
Post #3 - https://christianchat.com/threads/fig-tree-parable.201744/post-4669007
Post #3 - https://christianchat.com/threads/fig-tree-parable.201744/post-4669007
The fruit tree can be an individual.. The fruit of the tree can be what is produced by Faith.. The attempts of the gardener to fertilize and work on the tree to make it bare fruit can be the working of the Holy Spirit upon the individual to bring them to the Faith that saves...
I have no problem with the other interpretation where the tree represents Israel it can represent a group of people too..
I have no problem with the other interpretation where the tree represents Israel it can represent a group of people too..
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