Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

[ZNP]

This was an issue that came up a lot in my old church. Some folks were convinced that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump, while others kept asking why if that was true, why Trump and his lawyers couldn't prove any of it in court.

So is it your view that the election was stolen, even though there's no proof?

My view is if 50-70% of the American people who are polled believe we have election fraud, not the same thing as a stolen election but bad nonetheless, then it is my view that we should do a complete audit.

This should include:
1. A canvass. That means if 20 people mailed in votes from one address we check to see if 20 registered voters live at that address.

2. Check the paper ballots. We need to make sure for every vote counted there is a ballot.

3. We must do an audit on the machines. If Dominion refuses to let us see the software then we don't use the machines.

4. The ballots need to have a watermark so we can eliminate all ballots that don't have the watermark.

5. We need to remove all dead people from the voter registration rolls in each state.

6. We need to remove all people who have moved out of the state from the voter registration rolls.

 

[HeIsHere]

Do you believe Republicans wouldn't have signed a bill that closed the border?

Republicans in office do what is politically expedient and furthers their own momentary agenda not what is in the best interest of the country in the long term.

 

[HeIsHere]

I for one do not believe that everyone anti-Trump are necessarily of that ilk.
However, I am too much of a wise guy for me to ignore the patterns that I see in some of these posters.
And anyone brazen enough to deny the proclivities and manifest evidence of who and what Kamalatov, Walz and the rest of their crew really are takes the cake as far as I am concerned.

Good grief even Tedros is proven to be a hard-core hard left Marxist revolutionary nutter, beyond all refutation.

I am not convinced their motives and plans stem from some past ideological framework.
They have new equally bad ideas.

 

[Cameron143]

You have read over the legislation carefully and thoughtfully?
Remember when you stated the the IDF does not use indiscriminate bombing?

I use trusted sources as you do.

Republicans in office do what is politically expedient and furthers their own momentary agenda not what is in the best interest of the country in the long term.

Republicans in the House put forward a bill that would have greatly reduced illegal immigration. Every Republican voted for it.A bill came back from the Senate that none voted for. If the Senate bill would have closed the border, don't you think they would have voted for it? Also, did you know that the current administration has set up apps in other countries and flown between a half a million and a million illegals into the country? Why, do you suppose, that Democrats are so interested in allowing so many illegals into the country?

 

[cv5]

Republicans in office do what is politically expedient and furthers their own momentary agenda not what is in the best interest of the country in the long term.

The thing is.....Democrats are pro-actively and aggressively wrecking the nation. Full court press 24/7.
Republicans are passively and neglectfully allowing the nation to be wrecked.

The difference being one happens faster than the other.

As for Trump fixing stuff? Highly improbable. Especially if he is constantly genuflecting to popular opinion.
But Trump IS a blocking chess piece to the commies/Marxists/Bolsheviks desire to checkmate the nation.
And that will have to do for now I am afraid.

Oh and another thing: both parties are partying like 1999 pillaging the taxpayers thru the fiat Benjamin/CB/bankster system.
When it comes to keeping the spice flowing, they are both on the same page. Take every ducat and let the hapless citizenry be the bagholders.

You see......America is insolvent. What will the nation look like after the default will depend upon what party is in power. The Dims are laying the groundwork for a welfare state totalitarian neo-communist regime a la Maduro/Venezuela. This must not be allowed to happen.

The kicker is that Israel will fare better with Trump, as every far left nation hates Israel and would choose to wipe them out if they could.

 

[cv5]

I use trusted sources as you do.
Republicans in the House put forward a bill that would have greatly reduced illegal immigration. Every Republican voted for it.A bill came back from the Senate that none voted for. If the Senate bill would have closed the border, don't you think they would have voted for it? Also, did you know that the current administration has set up apps in other countries and flown between a half a million and a million illegals into the country? Why, do you suppose, that Democrats are so interested in allowing so many illegals into the country?

The trick is to fool the hapless citizenry into thinking that passing or not passing this political football aka bill is the necessary factor needed to shut down the border.

It is not.

 

[Cameron143]

The trick is to fool the hapless citizenry into thinking that passing or not passing this political football aka bill is the necessary factor needed to shut down the border.

It is not.

Agree. It was a political ploy to fool low information voters with a false narrative. All that is necessary to close the border is for Biden to rescind executive orders. Laws are already in place that make unlawful entry into the country illegal.

 

[JayBird]

Uhhhh look fella, new laws are not required to close a border. They could shut it all down tomorrow if they wanted to by the powers vested in the executive branch alone. And that person in charge of the paddock door would be king Ghidorah Kamalatov the border czar. Its all a political football, and an electioneering strategy that betrays criminal intent.

FYI, President Biden closed the border in June and migrant crossings have dropped to pandemic levels.

https://www.newsweek.com/us-mexico-illegal-border-crossings-fall-july-2024-1940544

 

[JayBird]

My view is if 50-70% of the American people who are polled believe we have election fraud, not the same thing as a stolen election but bad nonetheless, then it is my view that we should do a complete audit.

This should include:
1. A canvass. That means if 20 people mailed in votes from one address we check to see if 20 registered voters live at that address.

2. Check the paper ballots. We need to make sure for every vote counted there is a ballot.

3. We must do an audit on the machines. If Dominion refuses to let us see the software then we don't use the machines.

4. The ballots need to have a watermark so we can eliminate all ballots that don't have the watermark.

5. We need to remove all dead people from the voter registration rolls in each state.

6. We need to remove all people who have moved out of the state from the voter registration rolls.

Are you aware that there were multiple post-election audits in several swing states? They all showed the results were valid.

I can provide more info if you'd like.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Are you aware that there were multiple post-election audits in several swing states? They all showed the results were valid.

I can provide more info if you'd like.

Not to mention FOX News' $787.5 million settlement with Dominion Voting for spreading fake news about their voting machines and lying about the 2020 election.

 

[HeIsHere]

I use trusted sources as you do.
Republicans in the House put forward a bill that would have greatly reduced illegal immigration. Every Republican voted for it.A bill came back from the Senate that none voted for. If the Senate bill would have closed the border, don't you think they would have voted for it? Also, did you know that the current administration has set up apps in other countries and flown between a half a million and a million illegals into the country? Why, do you suppose, that Democrats are so interested in allowing so many illegals into the country?

I think my original point was not about the border and the Democrats versus the Republicans on the issue, but rather more about the nature of information and assumptions about people who hold a different view.

Some say it is for the votes, I think this again has to be investigated and the data has to be analyzed, otherwise it is just one opinion against another.

This my new aha moment!

 

[JayBird]

Not to mention FOX News' $787.5 million settlement with Dominion Voting for spreading fake news about their voting machines and lying about the 2020 election.

Yep. And don't forget what was revealed via that lawsuit, namely that Fox News knowingly lies to their viewers because they're worried if they don't, the viewers will go somewhere else.

 

[ZNP]

Are you aware that there were multiple post-election audits in several swing states? They all showed the results were valid.

I can provide more info if you'd like.

Those are "recounts" which is simply a ploy to fool people. They are not cleaning up the voter registration. They are not auditing the Dominion machines as they refused to be audited. They are not doing a canvass.

 

[JayBird]

Those are "recounts" which is simply a ploy to fool people.

There were both recounts and full audits. Would you like to see?

They are not cleaning up the voter registration. They are not auditing the Dominion machines as they refused to be audited. They are not doing a canvass.

What do you think they would find that wasn't discovered via the audits and recounts that were already done?

 

[ZNP]

There were both recounts and full audits. Would you like to see?


What do you think they would find that wasn't discovered via the audits and recounts that were already done?

yes I would like to see.

As for the second question, you are ignoring what I have said or you would not ask that. I will repeat one more time, but this is getting tiresome as you are not the only person to push this line of questions.

50-70% of people polled think there is election fraud. We know that we had election Fraud with the Box 13 scandal, and with Watergate, and then those charged with Watergate thought it was a typical trick that they did all the time. We also know after the Mueller investigation that Hillary Clinton was involved in election fraud.

Since our elections are a pillar of our republic, if people lose confidence in their integrity it will be potentially catastrophic to the faith and confidence in our government. Instead of mocking and insulting people who feel this way the only way to resolve this is with a full audit that people from both parties can oversee. The issue is not "what I think we'll see" but how to best restore trust in the process.

 

[Cameron143]

I think my original point was not about the border and the Democrats versus the Republicans on the issue, but rather more about the nature of information and assumptions about people who hold a different view.

Some say it is for the votes, I think this again has to be investigated and the data has to be analyzed, otherwise it is just one opinion against another.

This my new aha moment!

And I'll go back to my original post...lies were put forth. While I encourage investigation, perhaps you shouldn't chime in until you have actually done so.

Some people get all their information from liberal sources. Hence, they merely repeat left wing talking points. Recently, a number of new members have joined and done exactly this. This happens at many sites during election season. As someone who graduated with a degree in political science 40 years ago and has followed American politics even longer, I've found the single most important element to getting elected is the control of information. The purist would say truth, but he would be wrong. The prevailing narrative, whether true or not, wins the day. Truth, however, does still set people free.

People who come to sites around election time and only involve themselves in threads related to the election are likely trolls.

 

[Cameron143]

Those are "recounts" which is simply a ploy to fool people. They are not cleaning up the voter registration. They are not auditing the Dominion machines as they refused to be audited. They are not doing a canvass.

In fact, they destroyed alot of machines.

 

[Susanna]

I would like a president like the old Bush, or Reagan. Is that too much to ask for?

 

[JayBird]

yes I would like to see.

There was the infamous post-election audit in AZ: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/573888-five-takeaways-from-the-arizonas-audit-results/

Georgia: https://sos.ga.gov/news/historic-fi...aper-ballots-upholds-result-presidential-race

(there were actually 3 audits in GA, all producing the same result: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...t-hasnt-found-30-000-fake-ballots/5253184001/ )

Wisconsin: https://apnews.com/article/joe-bide...ions-madison-9a2f172dd8074668ded26bd5b0b41fbb

Pennsylvania: https://whyy.org/articles/pa-audit-...-votes-than-trump-but-cant-tell-us-much-else/

Michigan: https://www.michigan.gov/sos/Resour...-accuracy-and-integrity-of-michigans-election

50-70% of people polled think there is election fraud.

That doesn't automatically make it true. In order for it to be true, you have to have some actual evidence.

Since our elections are a pillar of our republic, if people lose confidence in their integrity it will be potentially catastrophic to the faith and confidence in our government.

I agree, which begs an obvious question: Why then are Trump and Republicans going around saying elections are fraudulent when they can't prove a single shred of it?

Seems like they're the ones undermining the public's confidence in elections, doesn't it?

 

[ZNP]

That doesn't automatically make it true. In order for it to be true, you have to have some actual evidence.

That is not the point, the point is if you don't have the full faith and confidence that it is not fraudulent you are undermining the governments authority and credibility. The audit needs to restore the confidence and faith in the process, that is the point.

I agree, which begs an obvious question: Why then are Trump and Republicans going around saying elections are fraudulent when they can't prove a single shred of it?

That is false. There is evidence. There are 2,000 sworn affidavits, there is video evidence. What they have not done is proven it in court. Not the same thing as not having enough evidence to warrant an audit.

When people say they don't have evidence you are spitting in the face of the 2,000 signed affidavits. It is insulting and rather than causing a reconciliation you are causing the split to get worse and for people to trust you less.