IF the Spirit Dwells In You...

[Webers.Home]

.
● John 3:5 . . I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God
unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

The water that Jesus spoke of isn't the ordinary stuff commonly used for
bathing, laundering, cooking, irrigating, and/or religious rites, rituals,
and ceremonies. It's a supernatural kind of water and specifically intended
as a beverage, i.e. it's for drinking.

● John 4:10 . . If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a
drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.

● John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.

As it turns out: the Spirit is the source of the water about which Jesus
spoke.

● John 7:37-39 . . Jesus stood and cried out, saying: If any man is thirsty,
let him come to me and drink. He who believes in me, as the Scripture said:
"From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water." But this he
spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive.

● 1Cor 12:13 . .We were all given the one Spirit to drink.

One day I asked an experienced Jehovah's Witness at my job if he was born
of the Spirit. He answered no; and added that he didn't expect to undergo a
Spirit birth in either this life or the next because his hope is a kingdom on
Earth rather than up in Heaven.

The JW was somehow unaware that Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus wasn't
relative to a kingdom above, rather; to a kingdom below.

● John 3:12 . . . If I have told you earthly things and yet you do not believe,
how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

It's both tragic and ironic that the Watchtower Society's rank and file
missionaries go worldwide advertising a kingdom that they themselves will
never be allowed to enter-- not because they didn't work hard enough to
deserve it, but simply because they were led to believe themselves exempt
from the Spirit birth, and of course exempt from the living water too.

● John 3:7 . . You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born
again.

In other words: the Spirit-birth requirement isn't optional, rather; it's a must,
i.e. mandatory.
_

 

[Magenta]

It's a supernatural kind of water and specifically intended as a beverage, i.e. it's for drinking.

I doubt it. But it is definitely sustenance, and central to life.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

@Bob-Carabbio
Earlier I shared scriptural details that seem to oppose the idea the apostles experienced being filled with the Holy Ghost at that moment. It is possible Jesus was referencing the future event that took place at Pentecost.

That would be the normal Cessationist interpretation - i.e. NOTHING happened at John 20:22, and jesus spent the night educating the disciples about himself. Subsequently, EVERYTHING HAPPENED (in spite of the language used) at Acts 2: 4.

 

[Lamar]

Notice Paul stated that no man understands the tongue/language spoken when man's spirit converses with God:

1 Cor 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Cor 14:14-15
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

You are simply avoiding the question.

How do you know what you are claiming is not simply glossolalia?

I know you believe it is a physical supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit but why?

 

[Wansvic]

.
● John 3:5 . . I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God
unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

The water that Jesus spoke of isn't the ordinary stuff commonly used for
bathing, laundering, cooking, irrigating, and/or religious rites, rituals,
and ceremonies. It's a supernatural kind of water and specifically intended
as a beverage, i.e. it's for drinking.
...
_

Jesus referenced water and Spirit. It's interesting that people do not see the clear connection revealed in all detailed conversion accounts. (Acts 2:2,33, 38-42, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) Consider the fact that all individuals were baptized in WATER in the name of Jesus, and received the Holy SPIRIT as well. This is not a coincidence.

 

[homwardbound]

.
● John 3:5 . . I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God
unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

The water that Jesus spoke of isn't the ordinary stuff commonly used for
bathing, laundering, cooking, irrigating, and/or religious rites, rituals,
and ceremonies. It's a supernatural kind of water and specifically intended
as a beverage, i.e. it's for drinking.

● John 4:10 . . If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a
drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.

● John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.

As it turns out: the Spirit is the source of the water about which Jesus
spoke.

● John 7:37-39 . . Jesus stood and cried out, saying: If any man is thirsty,
let him come to me and drink. He who believes in me, as the Scripture said:
"From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water." But this he
spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive.

● 1Cor 12:13 . .We were all given the one Spirit to drink.

One day I asked an experienced Jehovah's Witness at my job if he was born
of the Spirit. He answered no; and added that he didn't expect to undergo a
Spirit birth in either this life or the next because his hope is a kingdom on
Earth rather than up in Heaven.

The JW was somehow unaware that Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus wasn't
relative to a kingdom above, rather; to a kingdom below.

● John 3:12 . . . If I have told you earthly things and yet you do not believe,
how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

It's both tragic and ironic that the Watchtower Society's rank and file
missionaries go worldwide advertising a kingdom that they themselves will
never be allowed to enter-- not because they didn't work hard enough to
deserve it, but simply because they were led to believe themselves exempt
from the Spirit birth, and of course exempt from the living water too.

● John 3:7 . . You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born
again.

In other words: the Spirit-birth requirement isn't optional, rather; it's a must,
i.e. mandatory.
_

It is to me not a must, more so the gift to get given and be given to all that believe God seriously in Son as then risen for them. Death was for, to take away sin all but "unbelief" to God through Son first. That is all I see is left is to believe God. The sacrifice of Son in his shed blood took away sin in Father's sight for us the people. then now is risen never to die again for any more sin ever.
Drink, this is my Shed Blood for you
Eat, this bread it is as if my body, which is for you. We are made new in the risen Son for us, given to us by God through Son Psalm 100:4, 103:12
Believe, receive and see new in God's Spirit and Truth, not the self or anyone else any more, including fallen spirits. Thanking Father and Son as Won on that cross, proven in his resurrection they all saw as in Col 2 tells me this truth.
Turn to God, God gives this truth freely and we can drink and never thirst again. thanks for the depth from you, it is shared to me at least, I see this above rituals and have to's, should have's and could have's


Acts 17:28

Authorized (King James) Version

28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

 

[Wansvic]

Filling of the Holy Spirit is not the same as being indwelt.

Read the book of John and compare with Acts

I have read both. And come to a different conclusion.

Truth is revealed by at least 2-3 witnesses/scriptures. The idea that the Holy Ghost must be activated after taking up residence in a believer is not something established in scripture.

 

[Wansvic]

You are simply avoiding the question.

How do you know what you are claiming is not simply glossolalia?

I know you believe it is a physical supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit but why?

When you have the experience you know that you know.

You may want to pray for the Holy Ghost as Jesus instructed. (John 11:13) Why? Because it is essential for salvation.

May God Bless.

 

[Lamar]

When you have the experience you know that you know.

You may want to pray for the Holy Ghost as Jesus instructed. (John 11:13) Why? Because it is essential for salvation.

May God Bless.

Would you accept this reasoning with claims from others?

 

[wattie]

I have read both. And come to a different conclusion.

Truth is revealed by at least 2-3 witnesses/scriptures. The idea that the Holy Ghost must be activated after taking up residence in a believer is not something established in scripture.

It's not activation, it's a believer relying on Jesus and then the Holy Spirit can empower them more.

Having less sin in your life = the Holy Spirit can fill you more.

It's that simple

 

[Wansvic]

Would you accept this reasoning with claims from others?

Thank you for your persistence. As I said, I had faith that the biblical record along with my personal experiences revealed speaking in tongues serves different purposes. I say thank you because when there is resistance concerning something I share, I ask God for further clarification from His Word.

Note Paul's comment regarding the Spiritual gift of tongues, "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. (1 Cor. 14:27) All detailed conversion accounts reveal far more than 3 individuals experienced speaking in tongues. 120 in the upper room. (Acts 2:4) Cornelius and multiple people in the Acts 10 account. (verses 7, 24, 27, 44, 45) Also interesting is verse 7 in the Acts 19 account. It states all 12 men spoke in tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost. There was no one operating in the Spiritual gift of interpretation in any of the accounts.

Praise God there is an answer to everything in God's word if we are willing to seek it out. Again, thank you.

 

[Wansvic]

It's not activation, it's a believer relying on Jesus and then the Holy Spirit can empower them more.

Having less sin in your life = the Holy Spirit can fill you more.

It's that simple

What do you mean by "it's a believer relying on Jesus and then the Holy Spirit can empower them more."? Please provide scriptures.

 

[wattie]

What do you mean by "it's a believer relying on Jesus and then the Holy Spirit can empower them more."? Please provide scriptures.

Acts 4:7-8 KJV
And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? [8] Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Peter was saved eternally before being filled with the Holy Spirit here.

 

[Wansvic]

Acts 4:7-8 KJV
And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? [8] Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Peter was saved eternally before being filled with the Holy Spirit here.

The scripture does not indicate Peter was filled at that moment. Just that he was an individual full of the Holy Ghost. An experience that occurred in Acts 2:4.

 

[Lamar]

Thank you for your persistence. As I said, I had faith that the biblical record along with my personal experiences revealed speaking in tongues serves different purposes. I say thank you because when there is resistance concerning something I share, I ask God for further clarification from His Word.

Note Paul's comment regarding the Spiritual gift of tongues, "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. (1 Cor. 14:27) All detailed conversion accounts reveal far more than 3 individuals experienced speaking in tongues. 120 in the upper room. (Acts 2:4) Cornelius and multiple people in the Acts 10 account. (verses 7, 24, 27, 44, 45) Also interesting is verse 7 in the Acts 19 account. It states all 12 men spoke in tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost. There was no one operating in the Spiritual gift of interpretation in any of the accounts.

Praise God there is an answer to everything in God's word if we are willing to seek it out. Again, thank you.

Okay but what about the question?

It seems you should be able to answer it rather easily.

I can answer it. The answer is "no", I would not accept this reasoning from you or anyone else.

So again, would you accept your reasoning from anyone else regardless of the person or subject matter?

Paul's comments does not prove you or anyone else are speaking in tongues today. I had a Mormon roommate who claimed to speak in tongues, he used the same reasoning as you.

 

[wattie]

The scripture does not indicate Peter was filled at that moment. Just that he was an individual full of the Holy Ghost. An experience that occurred in Acts 2:4.

Yes, so being filled with the Holy Spirit is an individual full of the Holy Spirit

 

[Wansvic]

Okay but what about the question?

It seems you should be able to answer it rather easily.

I can answer it. The answer is "no", I would not accept this reasoning from you or anyone else.

So again, would you accept your reasoning from anyone else regardless of the person or subject matter?

Paul's comments does not prove you or anyone else are speaking in tongues today. I had a Mormon roommate who claimed to speak in tongues, he used the same reasoning as you.

Clearly you have already made up your mind regardless of what God revealed in His Word. No need to carry on this discussion.

 

[Wansvic]

Yes, so being filled with the Holy Spirit is an individual full of the Holy Spirit

Your comment: " Peter was saved eternally before being filled with the Holy Spirit here. " Acts 4:7-8 KJV And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? [8] Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,"

According to the Word, everyone must be indwelt/filled with the Holy Ghost it's a condition of the NT rebirth. (Acts 2:4, 36-42) Each detailed conversion account reveals this experience is one in the same.

The idea that everyone receives the Holy Ghost the moment they believe, or during water baptism is refuted in the Word. I supplied scriptural evidence of which one is Paul would not have asked have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed if believers receive the Holy Ghost instantaneously upon belief, (Acts 19) etc. etc...

 

[fredoheaven]

Jesus confirmed the Holy Ghost is not received upon belief when He told people to ask the Heavenly Father for the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13)
Those Jesus spoke with were already believers; yet, they did not have the Holy Ghost. The account reveals there is discernable evidence when the experience occurs. Otherwise, how does a person know if they need to pray to receive the Holy Ghost?

The Samaritan account confirms this point. They knew they had not received the Holy Ghost when they believed, nor when they were water baptized. They actually received the Holy Ghost days later. (Acts 8:12-17)

Paul pointed out that receiving the Spirit was essential: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:9) And scripture reveals tongues is the sign that accompanies the experience. (Acts 2:4-42, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)


Again, Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Ghost/Spirit to all those who ask...
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)

Jesus is at work in the lives of many during his era or earthly ministry. It's only after his ascension that the Holy Spirit will indwelt believers upon those who will believe Christ. When Christ says about asking the Holy Spirit is not necessarily for salvation but guidance. I think it needed a proper division of the word to understand God's purpose.

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Jesus confirmed the Holy Ghost is not received upon belief when He told people to ask the Heavenly Father for the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13)
Those Jesus spoke with were already believers; yet, they did not have the Holy Ghost. The account reveals there is discernable evidence when the experience occurs. Otherwise, how does a person know if they need to pray to receive the Holy Ghost?

The Samaritan account confirms this point. They knew they had not received the Holy Ghost when they believed, nor when they were water baptized. They actually received the Holy Ghost days later. (Acts 8:12-17)

Paul pointed out that receiving the Spirit was essential: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:9) And scripture reveals tongues is the sign that accompanies the experience. (Acts 2:4-42, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)


Again, Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Ghost/Spirit to all those who ask...
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)

Jesus confirmed the Holy Ghost is not received upon belief when He told people to ask the Heavenly Father for the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13)
Those Jesus spoke with were already believers; yet, they did not have the Holy Ghost. The account reveals there is discernable evidence when the experience occurs. Otherwise, how does a person know if they need to pray to receive the Holy Ghost?

The Samaritan account confirms this point. They knew they had not received the Holy Ghost when they believed, nor when they were water baptized. They actually received the Holy Ghost days later. (Acts 8:12-17)

Paul pointed out that receiving the Spirit was essential: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:9) And scripture reveals tongues is the sign that accompanies the experience. (Acts 2:4-42, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)


Again, Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Ghost/Spirit to all those who ask...
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)

Your assumption is wrong that the people Jesus was talking about in Luke 13:11 were believers. The Samaritans received water baptism and had an acceptance of the message, but they didn't have true faith yet. Why? It's because the Spirit gives us the new birth (John 3:1-18). Simon the Samaritan Magician is a perfect example of accepting Jesus but not having true faith without the Holy Spirit.