IF the Spirit Dwells In You...
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If you read the Baptism of Jesus The Spirit of God came upon HIM and remained
John chapter verse 32
Mathew 3:16
Mark 1:10
Luke 3:22
All say upon The Holy Spirit did not need to come into Jesus for salvation as HE does for us. Jesus had an eternal Spirit that has always been. Jesus, because of the flesh, 100% relied on the Holy Spirit, willfully emptied himself, and did nothing of HIS own but what the Holy Spirit gave HIM.
John chapter verse 32
Mathew 3:16
Mark 1:10
Luke 3:22
All say upon The Holy Spirit did not need to come into Jesus for salvation as HE does for us. Jesus had an eternal Spirit that has always been. Jesus, because of the flesh, 100% relied on the Holy Spirit, willfully emptied himself, and did nothing of HIS own but what the Holy Spirit gave HIM.
.
● John 3:34 . . . God's spirit is upon him without measure or limit.
FAQ: The Bible says God's spirit is everywhere at all times (Ps 139:7-10)
How is it possible for something so large and so expansive to fit into the
limited space afforded by a human body?
REPLY: I seriously doubt John 3:34 is speaking of dimensions. It's far more
likely a reference to Isa 11:1-2, i.e. full-on divine capabilities, e.g. wisdom,
understanding, counsel, might, knowledge, and reverence.
* Speaking of reverence and might:
God has given His son a number of sheep to tend.
● John 10:29 . . My sheep . . my Father gave them to me
Jesus' Father expects His son to be conscientious about the sheep's safety.
● John 6:39 . .This is the will of the One who sent me: that I should not lose
anything of what He gave me.
Jesus never fails to give the One what He wants.
● John 4:34 . . My food is to do the will of the One who sent me.
● John 8:29 . . I always do what is pleasing to Him.
Now the thing is: were Jesus to lose even one of the sheep that his Father
entrusted to his care-- just one --then Jesus would not be able to say that
he "always" pleases the One who sent him. He could say that he pleases the
One most of the time, but certainly not always without fail.
People are actually casting a nay vote in regard to Jesus' competence when
they insist it's possible for him to lose some of the sheep that his Father
gave him. I would be inclined to agree with the skeptics were the shepherd
only human; however the Bible teaches that Christ is not only human, but
also a theophany (John 1:1-3 & John 1:14) viz: he's the divine architect
responsible for constructing the entire cosmos with all of its forms of life,
matter, and energy. So then, the good shepherd has all the powers and
abilities of the supreme being at his disposal to insure he succeeds at
keeping the sheep right where his Father wants them kept.
● John 10:9 . . I am the door; whoever enters through me shall be saved.
Were Christ only human; then he wouldn't dare say "shall be saved" no,
he'd have to tone it down a bit and say "shall be safer". That would leave
him some room for error. But when Christ says "shall be saved" he's
claiming a 0.0% failure rate. That's how confident Christ is that he will lose
nothing of those that the One gave him.
FAQ: Why can't the sheep change their minds about following Christ and
leave him to follow someone else?
REPLY: Animal husbandry isn't democratic, on the contrary: it's quite despotic.
The thing is: a rancher's free will trumps his herd's free will; and the
rancher's brand burned into the animals' skins indelibly identify him as their
owner. So be advised: once someone makes the decision to unify with
Christ, they relinquish whatever sovereignty they had as a beast at large,
viz: they become Christ's property, and there's no going back because Jesus
and his Father play for keeps.
● John 10:28-29 . . No one can take them out of my hand-- my Father, who
has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one can take them out of
the Father’s hand. I and my Father stand together.
● 1Cor 6:19-20 . .You are not your own; you were bought at a price.
● Eph 1:13 . . In him you also-- who have heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him --were sealed with the
promised Holy Spirit.
_
● John 3:34 . . . God's spirit is upon him without measure or limit.
FAQ: The Bible says God's spirit is everywhere at all times (Ps 139:7-10)
How is it possible for something so large and so expansive to fit into the
limited space afforded by a human body?
REPLY: I seriously doubt John 3:34 is speaking of dimensions. It's far more
likely a reference to Isa 11:1-2, i.e. full-on divine capabilities, e.g. wisdom,
understanding, counsel, might, knowledge, and reverence.
* Speaking of reverence and might:
God has given His son a number of sheep to tend.
● John 10:29 . . My sheep . . my Father gave them to me
Jesus' Father expects His son to be conscientious about the sheep's safety.
● John 6:39 . .This is the will of the One who sent me: that I should not lose
anything of what He gave me.
Jesus never fails to give the One what He wants.
● John 4:34 . . My food is to do the will of the One who sent me.
● John 8:29 . . I always do what is pleasing to Him.
Now the thing is: were Jesus to lose even one of the sheep that his Father
entrusted to his care-- just one --then Jesus would not be able to say that
he "always" pleases the One who sent him. He could say that he pleases the
One most of the time, but certainly not always without fail.
People are actually casting a nay vote in regard to Jesus' competence when
they insist it's possible for him to lose some of the sheep that his Father
gave him. I would be inclined to agree with the skeptics were the shepherd
only human; however the Bible teaches that Christ is not only human, but
also a theophany (John 1:1-3 & John 1:14) viz: he's the divine architect
responsible for constructing the entire cosmos with all of its forms of life,
matter, and energy. So then, the good shepherd has all the powers and
abilities of the supreme being at his disposal to insure he succeeds at
keeping the sheep right where his Father wants them kept.
● John 10:9 . . I am the door; whoever enters through me shall be saved.
Were Christ only human; then he wouldn't dare say "shall be saved" no,
he'd have to tone it down a bit and say "shall be safer". That would leave
him some room for error. But when Christ says "shall be saved" he's
claiming a 0.0% failure rate. That's how confident Christ is that he will lose
nothing of those that the One gave him.
FAQ: Why can't the sheep change their minds about following Christ and
leave him to follow someone else?
REPLY: Animal husbandry isn't democratic, on the contrary: it's quite despotic.
The thing is: a rancher's free will trumps his herd's free will; and the
rancher's brand burned into the animals' skins indelibly identify him as their
owner. So be advised: once someone makes the decision to unify with
Christ, they relinquish whatever sovereignty they had as a beast at large,
viz: they become Christ's property, and there's no going back because Jesus
and his Father play for keeps.
● John 10:28-29 . . No one can take them out of my hand-- my Father, who
has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one can take them out of
the Father’s hand. I and my Father stand together.
● 1Cor 6:19-20 . .You are not your own; you were bought at a price.
● Eph 1:13 . . In him you also-- who have heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him --were sealed with the
promised Holy Spirit.
_
You are wrong. And misunderstanding what Jesus is saying causes people to believe as you do that there are "two application of the Spirit for the believer that are not the same but from the same Holy Spirit." When in fact there is only one as revealed and confirmed in scripture.
Jesus makes it clear that the Holy Ghost was present in Him. But the Holy Ghost would come to dwell inside of the apostles and be with them forever. "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" (John 14:16)
He goes on to elaborate, "Even the Spirit of truth; ...ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (John 14:17)
Jesus makes it clear that the Holy Ghost was present in Him. But the Holy Ghost would come to dwell inside of the apostles and be with them forever. "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" (John 14:16)
He goes on to elaborate, "Even the Spirit of truth; ...ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (John 14:17)
Shake your head all you want. You were shown that in scripture.
Can God come upon a person and then leave, yes or no? If the answer is yes to all, why are you "SMH" that God has the ability to be in a person yet not having empowered them to be His witness, as Jesus said?
- Is God everywhere, yes or no?
- Can God be near yes or no?
- Can God be far from someone, yes or No?
Can God come upon a person and then leave, yes or no? If the answer is yes to all, why are you "SMH" that God has the ability to be in a person yet not having empowered them to be His witness, as Jesus said?
Our discussion centered around when a person actually receives the indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost associated with the NT rebirth. What you believe Jesus meant in John 14 is not accurate. And therefore, distorts perception of the truth. You may want to consider taking another look at what the scripture actually says.
There's no need to go around in circles. But thanks for the discussion.
There's no need to go around in circles. But thanks for the discussion.
Really, are there two Baptisms?
Also, you did not quote John 14:16 correctly. in context FYI Jesus did not speak in chapter and verses nor di the Apostles write using them. That was added so the context in verse 16 is not though that is why you need to read above and below the text to see and know the Auhtoiral intent.
I will start at 15
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him,
for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
We see Jesus saying Keep my Commandments, and He will pray to the Father to give YOU ANOTHER HELPER,
The comforter ( Paraclete ) Means one who comes alongside to help. He will be with you forever and will be IN you .
How convenient you left out verses 15, 17, and 18. Shame on you.
Also, you did not quote John 14:16 correctly. in context FYI Jesus did not speak in chapter and verses nor di the Apostles write using them. That was added so the context in verse 16 is not though that is why you need to read above and below the text to see and know the Auhtoiral intent.
I will start at 15
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him,
for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
We see Jesus saying Keep my Commandments, and He will pray to the Father to give YOU ANOTHER HELPER,
The comforter ( Paraclete ) Means one who comes alongside to help. He will be with you forever and will be IN you .
How convenient you left out verses 15, 17, and 18. Shame on you.
Shame on me? Too funny.
During this discussion I've quoted all referenced verses in numerous posts. The primary focus has been on what Jesus was conveying in verse 17; as such, that single verse is quoted in some posts while not in others.
The point again. The Holy Ghost was currently with the apostles; meaning in Jesus. For in Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (Col. 2:9) However, after Jesus ascended, He sent the Holy Ghost to dwell in the apostles. (Acts 2:33) And the same is available to all mankind until Jesus returns. The indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost is an essential to the NT rebirth.
During this discussion I've quoted all referenced verses in numerous posts. The primary focus has been on what Jesus was conveying in verse 17; as such, that single verse is quoted in some posts while not in others.
The point again. The Holy Ghost was currently with the apostles; meaning in Jesus. For in Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (Col. 2:9) However, after Jesus ascended, He sent the Holy Ghost to dwell in the apostles. (Acts 2:33) And the same is available to all mankind until Jesus returns. The indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost is an essential to the NT rebirth.
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The passages you've shared remind us that the Holy Spirit is not automatically received upon belief, but rather, it is a gift that we must ask for with an open heart.
As Jesus teaches us in Luke 11:13, our Heavenly Father is eager to give us the Holy Spirit, just as a loving parent desires to give good gifts to their children. The accounts of the Samaritans and the early Christian communities in Acts demonstrate that receiving the Holy Spirit is a distinct experience, often accompanied by visible signs, such as speaking in tongues.
St. Paul's words in Romans 8:9 emphasize the importance of having the Spirit of God dwelling within us, for it is through the Spirit that we are united to Christ and become children of God.
As we ask for the Holy Spirit, let us remember that this gift is not just for personal edification, but for the building up of the Church and the spread of God's love in the world.
The word for dwells in John 14 (menO) is not the same word used for dwells in Rom. 8 (oikeO).
But I agree with your general position on the disciples receiving the Holy Spirit in John 20, and being endued with power in Acts 2.
The Holy Spirit, no doubt, remained (menO) with Jesus before His baptism; and Jesus, no doubt, had (echO) the Holy Spirit before His baptism; and the Holy Spirit undoubtedly dwelt (oikeO) in Him before His baptism with the Holy Spirit; but He was not endued (enduO) with power until His baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Likewise, the Holy Spirit remained (menO) with His disciples since their baptism by Jesus in Jesus name; and the disciples had (echO) the Holy Spirit in them from John 20, and the Holy Spirit undoubtedly dwelt (oikeO) in them intermittently since John 20; but they were not endued (enduO) with power until Pentecost.
Those who do not have (echO) the Holy Spirit are not His (Rom. 8). But one can have (echo) the Holy Spirit without them allowing Him to dwell (oikeO) in them (Rom. 8). Just as one can have (echO) a guest in one's house without allowing them to dwell, (oikeO) in the house, i.e. participate fully in the economy of the house.
But I agree with your general position on the disciples receiving the Holy Spirit in John 20, and being endued with power in Acts 2.
The Holy Spirit, no doubt, remained (menO) with Jesus before His baptism; and Jesus, no doubt, had (echO) the Holy Spirit before His baptism; and the Holy Spirit undoubtedly dwelt (oikeO) in Him before His baptism with the Holy Spirit; but He was not endued (enduO) with power until His baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Likewise, the Holy Spirit remained (menO) with His disciples since their baptism by Jesus in Jesus name; and the disciples had (echO) the Holy Spirit in them from John 20, and the Holy Spirit undoubtedly dwelt (oikeO) in them intermittently since John 20; but they were not endued (enduO) with power until Pentecost.
Those who do not have (echO) the Holy Spirit are not His (Rom. 8). But one can have (echo) the Holy Spirit without them allowing Him to dwell (oikeO) in them (Rom. 8). Just as one can have (echO) a guest in one's house without allowing them to dwell, (oikeO) in the house, i.e. participate fully in the economy of the house.
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So, Jesus controlled the Holy Spirit? And the Holy Spirit doesn't have the ability to be in someone and with another or come upon a person?
When Jesus said, " when the Comforter comes, does that mean HE was not there yet in John chapter 15:26
And Jesu lied to Nicodemus in John chapter 3?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
We see the work of the Spirit, but we do not see the Spirit.
When Jesus said, " when the Comforter comes, does that mean HE was not there yet in John chapter 15:26
And Jesu lied to Nicodemus in John chapter 3?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
We see the work of the Spirit, but we do not see the Spirit.
That is an excellent and exciting point you have made, I only see two thing that many do overlook.
1. before the resurrection of Jesus, we see the Old Testament working of the Holy Spirit
2. Jesus opening their (Disciples) understanding of who HE is found in John 20:22 and in Luke 24:44-47
Please tell me what you think.
Thank you for your response.
Yes. Before both confessing Him Lord and believing that Jesus had risen and the disciples experienced the Holy Spirit as the OT people did: as a mantle, as with them as they preached and did miracles in Jesus name, and receiving some special spiritual insights.
Re Luke 24. I don't think the two going to Emmaus received the Holy Spirit within, until Jesus broke the bread and they both confessed Him as Lord and believed Jesus had risen (Rom. 10:9-10).
Re John 20. After the disciples received the Holy Spirit within, they were able to do the forgiving Jesus spoke of in John 20, and so were able to be together in one accord on the day of Pentecost.
Re Luke 24. I don't think the two going to Emmaus received the Holy Spirit within, until Jesus broke the bread and they both confessed Him as Lord and believed Jesus had risen (Rom. 10:9-10).
Re John 20. After the disciples received the Holy Spirit within, they were able to do the forgiving Jesus spoke of in John 20, and so were able to be together in one accord on the day of Pentecost.
The Holy Spirit was in Jesus: "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." (2 Cor 5:19) We know from Acts 2:33 that Jesus shed forth the Holy Ghost at Pentecost.
In John 14:17, Jesus references a future event when the Holy Ghost would come to dwell inside individuals as part of the NT rebirth.
Jesus then makes it clear the Holy Ghost could not come unless He departed: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." (John 16:7)
Just as Jesus said, the Holy Ghost came AFTER He departed: "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (Acts 2:33) This event aligns with John 15:26: "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"
As to John 3:8: The Holy Ghost/Spirit can be heard. Sound reveals when His arrival takes place: "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
In John 14:17, Jesus references a future event when the Holy Ghost would come to dwell inside individuals as part of the NT rebirth.
Jesus then makes it clear the Holy Ghost could not come unless He departed: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." (John 16:7)
Just as Jesus said, the Holy Ghost came AFTER He departed: "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (Acts 2:33) This event aligns with John 15:26: "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"
As to John 3:8: The Holy Ghost/Spirit can be heard. Sound reveals when His arrival takes place: "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
I see, believe, continue, no matter what might happens to you. for by God on that first day anyone believes God and continues, has received from God new life in his risen Son Jesus for them to see it too. It does take awhile though, since evil people and Spirits are still out and about trying to be God over God and get whatever it is they want in their own thoughts, even thinking it is God's thoughts through them, convinced, as told about in Luke 18:9-14 the two that go to the Temple, today the NT Church
To think I know, has revealed to me, I do not know, thanks
I am not righteous, God is, God shares this with us to be humble in it, at least this I now see and tomorrow not here yet, I see to live one day at a time in Thanksgiving and praise over this miraculous gift
Straining out gnats, swallowing camels still going on.
Thanking God for God's done work of Son for us to be new in love and mercy to all as got done by Son for us all to appreciate and be made new in love and mercy to all too
Thank you
To think I know, has revealed to me, I do not know, thanks
I am not righteous, God is, God shares this with us to be humble in it, at least this I now see and tomorrow not here yet, I see to live one day at a time in Thanksgiving and praise over this miraculous gift
Straining out gnats, swallowing camels still going on.
Thanking God for God's done work of Son for us to be new in love and mercy to all as got done by Son for us all to appreciate and be made new in love and mercy to all too
Thank you
I understand the context of the statement of the verse of 2 Cor 5:19.
to your logic when Peter answered Jesu qestion How do men say that I am Peter responded:
Mathew 16:16-18
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
How did the Father reveal this to Peter?
Also, Jesus said the coming of the Holy Spirit was to give them the power to be a witness
Come upon doesn't mean the Holy Spirit was not Present.
When Jesus said I must go so the Comforter can come to FYI, Jesus was limited in the body he was in, Yet the Holy Spirit is not, and Jesus is the baptized of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus, who had the Holy Spirit without measure, needed to be seated far above all authorities so that HE could send or allow the Holy Spirit to do what Jesus could not do in a man's body. YOu have placed a limitation on the HS, yet Jesus is the only one who willfully emptied Himself and relied on the HS while on Earth. Jesus had the Spirit without measure or unmeasurable POWER or ALL POWER!
If you have all the power, he had to leave to send power as HE said I must go! John 15:5-7