Dietary laws, do you keep them?
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It is contradictory for someone to treat Acts 15:19-21 as containing an exhaustive list for mature Gentile believers in order to limit which laws Gentiles should follow while also treating it as being a non-exhaustive list by saying that that there are obviously other laws that Gentiles should follow, such as the greatest two commandments, or those things spoken against in verses like Romans 1:26-31, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-21, and Titus 3:1-3. In Acts 15:19-21, it was not given as an exhaustive list for mature believers, but rather it was given as a listen intended to avoid making things too difficult for new believers, which they excused in verse 21 with the expectation that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues.
Moreover, everything commanded in the Torah is either in regard to how to love God or our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that Gentiles should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that Gentiles should obey all of the commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit murder, idolatry, adultery, theft, favoritism, rape, kidnapping, and so forth for the rest of the Torah.
Moreover, everything commanded in the Torah is either in regard to how to love God or our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that Gentiles should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that Gentiles should obey all of the commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit murder, idolatry, adultery, theft, favoritism, rape, kidnapping, and so forth for the rest of the Torah.
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Do you believe in sanctification?
Justification is parted righteousness and we agree on this. But do you believe in sanctification?
1Th 4:3-4
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
Joh 17:17-19
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Justification is parted righteousness and we agree on this. But do you believe in sanctification?
1Th 4:3-4
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
Joh 17:17-19
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Character traits are not something that are earned as the result of our works, but rather the only way for someone to attain a character trait is by believing that they ought to be a doer of that trait. For example, there is no amount of courageous works that someone is required to have done first in order to earn becoming courageous as the result, but rather the only way to become courageous is through faith, and someone becoming courageous means that they are becoming a doer of courageous works. The same is true for becoming righteous and every other character trait. God's law is His instructions for how to be a doer of righteous works, not for how to become righteous, but someone becoming righteous through faith means that they are becoming a doer of righteous works through faith. This is why the same faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works does not abolish our need to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:27-31).
there's a treasure to be found here, in discussions of iconoclasm. 
why was it the command of God that the temple be decorated with engraved images of angels, palm trees, and open flowers?
what do angels look like, as described in the scripture?
why was it the command of God that the temple be decorated with engraved images of angels, palm trees, and open flowers?
what do angels look like, as described in the scripture?
And, Paul had one of his disciples circumcised before traveling, and refused on another occasion for another disciple...
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We can not say that we have obeyed the law. We can not stand justified without Jesus as our advocate.
Perfect righteousness is given to us as a gift from Jesus. We can not work for it or gain it by our efforts.
If we could we would not need Jesus.
The standard does not change.
Perfect righteousness is being free from sin, which means perfectly obeying the law.
Righteousness is not by the law for us because we all fail. We are told to obey because we love Jesus.
Perfect righteousness is given to us as a gift from Jesus. We can not work for it or gain it by our efforts.
If we could we would not need Jesus.
The standard does not change.
Perfect righteousness is being free from sin, which means perfectly obeying the law.
Righteousness is not by the law for us because we all fail. We are told to obey because we love Jesus.
Doing righteousness is manifested only one way....
And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory,
are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory,
which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:18
Now?
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts."
Isaiah 55:8-9
So, if His ways are not our ways?
And, His thoughts are not our thoughts?
If we refuse to accept anything other than sound doctrine?
Sound doctrine to transform our mind?
Being transformed, then our expression in life we will be manifesting His righteousness.
Because the transformation we received when the Spirit is manifested in us.
Transformed into His ways and His thoughts by means of sound doctrine!
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
That is why choosing for a subjective preference (false doctrine) in what we choose to believe?
May gain us some approval from likeminded believers. But, in God's eyes? We remain losers.
Being transformed must be by sound doctrine.
Afterwards?
It will require no conscious effort on our part to be expressing Christ in our ambassadorship.
No more conscious effort than we need to think about what we are doing when tying our shoe laces.
grace and peace ................
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Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Define sin.
God has given us a physical, mental and spiritual body. We need to look after all aspects.
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
1Co 6:19-20
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
If you are destroying the body you are not glorifying God.
Define sin.
God has given us a physical, mental and spiritual body. We need to look after all aspects.
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
1Co 6:19-20
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
If you are destroying the body you are not glorifying God.
You have the cart before the horse, making righteousness attainable through obedience, but Scripture tells us that righteousness cannot be gained through the Law.
Jesus was righteous at conception and birth as well as at His death. His obedience to the Law is the consequence, not the cause.
Jesus was righteous at conception and birth as well as at His death. His obedience to the Law is the consequence, not the cause.
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When Adam and Eve were walking in God's presence, they had no sin.
Sin seperated them and also seperates us from God.
What is righteousness?
The dictionary states....
"the quality of being morally right or justifiable."
" acting in accord with divine or moral law, free from guilt or sin"
Righteousness = free from sin. Being right.
A righteous person does not sin. Jesus was righteous.
Righteousness and not sinning go hand in hand. Like faith and works.
Perfect righteousness is not possible for us to attain by our own efforts. We can not gain it ourself. But Christ gifts it to us by faith.
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Sin seperated them and also seperates us from God.
What is righteousness?
The dictionary states....
"the quality of being morally right or justifiable."
" acting in accord with divine or moral law, free from guilt or sin"
Righteousness = free from sin. Being right.
A righteous person does not sin. Jesus was righteous.
Righteousness and not sinning go hand in hand. Like faith and works.
Perfect righteousness is not possible for us to attain by our own efforts. We can not gain it ourself. But Christ gifts it to us by faith.
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Yes, a Gentile has sinned but the Gentile was never taught the law.
Rome and Corinth were ignorant of the Jewish law and so was Pilate.
For some strange reason you are of the opinion that the Mosaic law was known
by everyone?
The Gentiles never knew God.
The Jews knew who God was.
Paul clearly tells you that the Gentiles did not know God, the law, the covenants, etc.
Ephesians 2:12
Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel,
and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
How can you say that the Gentiles knew the Mosaic law?
"strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world"
If the Gentiles never knew God then how can they take God's name in vain?
I struggle to understand why you contradict Paul on so many points.
Correct, but the Gentiles never knew the law.
Even today, it would be a very rare person who could recite the 613 laws.
The bulk of humanity would not even know the ten commandments.
I can assure you that in the first century that the Gentile nations did not know
the ten commandments. Or any other commandment in the law.
There is no evidence for that in the scripture.
You need the evidence from the text to support that claim.
There is no evidence to support that claim.
Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit and by the power of the Holy Spirit we live.
No Christian is under the law.
Rome and Corinth were ignorant of the Jewish law and so was Pilate.
For some strange reason you are of the opinion that the Mosaic law was known
by everyone?
The Gentiles never knew God.
The Jews knew who God was.
Paul clearly tells you that the Gentiles did not know God, the law, the covenants, etc.
Ephesians 2:12
Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel,
and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
How can you say that the Gentiles knew the Mosaic law?
"strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world"
If the Gentiles never knew God then how can they take God's name in vain?
I struggle to understand why you contradict Paul on so many points.
Correct, but the Gentiles never knew the law.
Even today, it would be a very rare person who could recite the 613 laws.
The bulk of humanity would not even know the ten commandments.
I can assure you that in the first century that the Gentile nations did not know
the ten commandments. Or any other commandment in the law.
There is no evidence for that in the scripture.
You need the evidence from the text to support that claim.
There is no evidence to support that claim.
Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit and by the power of the Holy Spirit we live.
No Christian is under the law.
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We were separated from God, yes.
Nothing we can do about that.
Jesus Christ had to give His life so we could receive life.
We don't play a single card in this, the full glory belongs to Jesus Christ.
All the law will do is condemn you.
The law is the ministry of death.
We live by that trust, that faith in Jesus Christ, His righteousness and not our own.
Nothing we can do about that.
Jesus Christ had to give His life so we could receive life.
We don't play a single card in this, the full glory belongs to Jesus Christ.
All the law will do is condemn you.
The law is the ministry of death.
We live by that trust, that faith in Jesus Christ, His righteousness and not our own.
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Your reply was incorrect Soyeong.
Here is what the council on Jerusalem was discussing.
Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying,
“It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to keep the Law of Moses.”
The Jerusalem council was not really talking about circumcision as such.
The Jerusalem council was discussing whether Gentiles would need to be
under the law. Circumcision is the entry requirement for admission to the
Mosaic law.
Did a Gentile need to become a Jew like Jesus was and under the law?
Unfortunately for the legalists the council just said that Gentiles needed
to avoid sexual immorality. If they did that, abstain from sexual immorality,
then they would do well.
Acts 15 is a simple text.
No interpretation needed.
Here is what the council on Jerusalem was discussing.
Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying,
“It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to keep the Law of Moses.”
The Jerusalem council was not really talking about circumcision as such.
The Jerusalem council was discussing whether Gentiles would need to be
under the law. Circumcision is the entry requirement for admission to the
Mosaic law.
Did a Gentile need to become a Jew like Jesus was and under the law?
Unfortunately for the legalists the council just said that Gentiles needed
to avoid sexual immorality. If they did that, abstain from sexual immorality,
then they would do well.
Acts 15 is a simple text.
No interpretation needed.
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There you go Soyeong, you just admitted that you cannot accept what 2 Corinthians 3,
says at face value.
The lengths you go to to alter the simple reading of the text.
You must distort every verse you read to conform those verses to the law.
2 Corinthians 3:3
Who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit;
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
A very simple verse indeed.
The letter kills.
What is the letter?
The letter of the law!
Can it get any easier?
Christians are not under the law.
says at face value.
The lengths you go to to alter the simple reading of the text.
You must distort every verse you read to conform those verses to the law.
2 Corinthians 3:3
Who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit;
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
A very simple verse indeed.
The letter kills.
What is the letter?
The letter of the law!
Can it get any easier?
Christians are not under the law.
Righteous works of the Law (such as dietary restrictions, circumcision, or worship on particular days) at first glance seem to have wisdom and an aura of pleasing God by performing them.
And these things are addictive while subtlety convincing you of your own self righteousness.
However....they are actually taking you further from your goal of fellowship with Jesus. Because that's the ultimate goal we wish to obtain.
Fellowship with Jesus can only be obtained with humility by exercises of agape love and faith towards God and your neighbor. (Which is what the law focused on in another time in history)
So....eat a bacon cheeseburger without guilt....wash it down with a beer and smile....be ready to give an answer for that sort of faith. One that has extreme confidence in what God has said He will do to those who love him and your neighbor.
And these things are addictive while subtlety convincing you of your own self righteousness.
However....they are actually taking you further from your goal of fellowship with Jesus. Because that's the ultimate goal we wish to obtain.
Fellowship with Jesus can only be obtained with humility by exercises of agape love and faith towards God and your neighbor. (Which is what the law focused on in another time in history)
So....eat a bacon cheeseburger without guilt....wash it down with a beer and smile....be ready to give an answer for that sort of faith. One that has extreme confidence in what God has said He will do to those who love him and your neighbor.
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So why do you counsel people to follow the law, when you clearly know that following the law does not bring about righteousness? Why, when you know that righteousness is a gift from God by faith, do you tell people to attempt to be righteous by following the law?
Have you not read Galatians 3:2-3?
"Did you receive the Spirit by observing the Law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? "
Have you not read Galatians 3:2-3?
"Did you receive the Spirit by observing the Law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? "