Unbelief isn't the unpardonable sin. But I know we disagree on this topic. Grace and peace.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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How can unbelief NOT be the unpardonable sin?
Jesus said ALL sin will be forgiven except the unpardonable one.
So UNBELIEF, AND some other sin is unpardonable? Are there unbelievers that are saved through history because they didn't commit some other, not explicitly named sin?
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
(2 Peter 2:1)
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 Timothy 4:10)
Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Limited Atonement ultimately relies upon the negative inference fallacy.
Why do Calvinists say "all means all" in regards to total depravity, but all no longer means "all" in regards to Christ's atonement?
(2 Peter 2:1)
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 Timothy 4:10)
Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Limited Atonement ultimately relies upon the negative inference fallacy.
Why do Calvinists say "all means all" in regards to total depravity, but all no longer means "all" in regards to Christ's atonement?
He who does not believe is condemned already
Thats all we need to know. Those who are condemned will go to hell. Because they have not believed.
Jesus did not pay the penalty for unbelief, if he did, everyone who even did not believe would get to heaven, THEN and only THEN would we have true universalism.
Blasphemy of the Spirit is a very particular sin. It is attributing the works of Jesus to Satan. Not even sure it can still be done today.
Even if it is not the unpardonable sin of Matthew 12:31, seems to me belief/trust/faith is the requirement and without it is not possible to receive eternal life.
That is all over scripture.
It is also obvious, I think, that to those who hold to this Reformed Doctrine of total inability, the inability to respond to the Gospel unless God regenerates first, need limited atonement as part of the system.
You see we cannot say God is unjust in this system because He never died for them, they go to hell where there were going to go anyway.
Anyone who accepts the concept of "moral inability to respond" must by necessity adhere to "limited atonement" otherwise they have a very unjust God.
Without limited atonement one has a situation where God selects some, yet paid for all, but does not select them.
It can be done
If you look in the dictionary you can find defenition. It gives an example. The people of 17 century England committed blasphemy because they dissented from the church
that’s exactly what a non believer does they dissent from the HS. The call him a liar they attribute his words to satan or some other thing
Because Jesus defined the unpardonable sin in Matthew 12 and Mark 3 as saying He "casts out devils by the power of Beelzebub."
It's blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Like how you add your own twist there.
Do you realise that you have simply cited one verse out of context from five different Bible translations. Even though it is cited five times, it is still a verse out of context. And a text out of context is a pretext.
You have cited part of a sentence from a letter 46 verses, and I suspect you are only relying on the first half of verse 5 to "make your case". "Not out of works of righteousness which we did , but according to his mercy he saved us..."
I suggest readers of this thread read the whole letter, and see how many verses enjoin good works and disallow evil works for the person whom "God saved not out of works of righteousness which we did." Notice that we can deny Jesus by our works even while professing faith in His saving grace (1:15-16). But being justified by His grace is not the whole story. See v. 3:8.
3:5-7 is saying that Jesus did not give His life to justify us because of anything righteous we may have done (v. 3:7). Justification is the entry into the process of salvation, but it is not the entire process.
Also consider Tit. 1: 1, 15-16; 2:7-8, 11-14; 3:8, 10-11
Also consider what the second half of Tit 3:5 is actually saying. The Greek words translated here as regeneration and renewing each only occur twice in scripture. Regeneration speaks of the change in resident rulership of the earth at Jesus return (Matt. 19:28) and the earth swept clean of demonic and degenerate rulers; and renewing speaks of the Holy Spirit giving us revelation of truths with which we are to replace our old stinking thinking and be transformed (Rom 12:2).
wow. alot of pointing to self here
Just take John at his word. that same John who wrote John 1, John 3, John 4, John 5, and John 6. and others which show we are saved not by our good deeds. but by faith in christ.
Tit. 3:5 taken in context of Tit 1:1 - 3:16 does not support the claim of the OP -
"It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation! "
What is the word "salvation" referring to in Tit. 3:5? Is it referring to justification, or sanctification/transformation, or glorification/resurrection?
Your right,
Our works have absolutely nothing to do with salvation.
Which is what the OP stated. and what he preached
salvation is refering to eternal salvation. we were saved not because of our righteous works, but By Gods mercy..
No. The context of Titus 3:5 indicates that the salvation being referred to is something in the past, not something present or future.
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Salvation in this context is referring to justification and becoming an heir through regeneration; so it is not referring to the entire scope of salvation from atonement to resurrection. So, to take this verse and assert that it proves our works have nothing to do with the full scope of salvation, when the rest of the letter makes it very clear that works are very relevant to sanctification, the stage of salvation that follows justification, is very presumptuous.
what is dangerous is taking Gods word out of context.
The hope of eternal life is what My faith is in (faith is the substance of things hoped for)
If I have no hope or assurance I will be saved, not based on what I do (works) but based on Gods mercy. then I have no salvation. because I have no faith.
who do you want me to trust? God and his mercy? Or myself?
I have to ask now, what "work" after we are saved can we do which contributes to the pefect work of Christ Jesus, His death, burial and resurrection?
Did He leave something unfinished?
nope, nothing you can do to add to that.
we were born in Adam, born into sin, and when we place our faith in Christ, we are saved in Him.
then, we are to do the good works that He has for us to do.
we are NOT saved by those works..
we were born in Adam, born into sin, and when we place our faith in Christ, we are saved in Him.
then, we are to do the good works that He has for us to do.
we are NOT saved by those works..
None. God has done everything He needs to do in the ministry of Christ. Through His great and precious promises we have received everything we need for life and godliness. Every deliverance and healing and revelation of truth has been given to believers in the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ and Father. abiding in their pure renewed spirits. So what Jesus has done is perfect and complete and made available to all. We have all been provided the adequate armor and weapons to overcome the world the flesh and the devil. But we need to use what we have be given to walk in the salvation Christ has perfectly provided for all.
But if we ask, "What work after we are saved can we do which contributes to our fully acquiring the full salvation perfectly paid for by Jesus Christ?" there is a different answer.
Enduring hardship and suffering for His sake.
Mat 10:21
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
2 Cor 1:16
And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
2 Th 3:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2 Tim 2:3
2 Tim 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Tim 3:11
Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2 Tim. 4:5
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Heb 6:15
And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
Heb. 10:32
But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Jas 1:2
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
Act 9:16
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Rom 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:18
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
1 Cor 4:12
1 Cor 9:12
If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
2 Cor 1:5-7
And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
Gal 5:11
Gal 6:12
As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
Pil 1:9
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Phl 3:8
Phl 3:10
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Col 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
1 Th 2:2
1 Th 2:14
1 Th 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
Adding to our faith
2 Th 2:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
1 Tim 4:10
2 Tim 1:12
2 Tim 2:9
2 Tim 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2 Tim 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution
1 Pet 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1 Pet 4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1 Pet 4:15-16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1 Pet 4 19
Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
1 Pet. 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
Rev. 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
And what happens to the crown?None. God has done everything He needs to do in the ministry of Christ. Through His great and precious promises we have received everything we need for life and godliness. Every deliverance and healing and revelation of truth has been given to believers in the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ and Father. abiding in their pure renewed spirits. So what Jesus has done is perfect and complete and made available to all. We have all been provided the adequate armor and weapons to overcome the world the flesh and the devil. But we need to use what we have be given to walk in the salvation Christ has perfectly provided for all.
But if we ask, "What work after we are saved can we do which contributes to our fully acquiring the full salvation perfectly paid for by Jesus Christ?" there is a different answer.
Enduring hardship and suffering for His sake.
Mat 10:21
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
2 Cor 1:16
And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
2 Th 3:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2 Tim 2:3
2 Tim 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Tim 3:11
Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2 Tim. 4:5
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Heb 6:15
And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
Heb. 10:32
But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Jas 1:2
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 5:11
Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
1 pet 2:19
For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
Act 9:16
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Rom 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:18
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
1 Cor 4:12
1 Cor 9:12
If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
2 Cor 1:5-7
And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
Gal 5:11
Gal 6:12
As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
Pil 1:9
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Phl 3:8
Phl 3:10
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Col 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
1 Th 2:2
1 Th 2:14
1 Th 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
Adding to our faith
2 Th 2:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
1 Tim 4:10
2 Tim 1:12
2 Tim 2:9
2 Tim 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2 Tim 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution
1 Pet 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1 Pet 4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1 Pet 4:15-16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1 Pet 4 19
Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
1 Pet. 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
Rev. 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Are you suffering to acquire this "fuller salvation" like the first century Christians suffered?
I myself, have been ridiculed here and there, sometimes my correct eschatology gets me in trouble
, but certainly I have never suffered and I would not say I have hid my beliefs in my day to day life.So should I move to country where Christians are martyred for the faith?