Forgiveness in The kingdom

[Pilgrimshope]

what is forgiveness like in Gods kingdom ?

“Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

“Therefore,( this connects it to what he just said )

the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.

As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. “

At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ ( he’s repenting in earnest from fear of judgement )

The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

“But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.

His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’


“But he refused.

( he repented and asked for mercy and received it , the other guy did the same and he rejected him )

Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.

When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened. “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.


“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:21-35‬ ‭NIV‬‬


this what the king said can you hear him ? This is our kingdom and word of our king

“For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. ( he canceled all our debt but also teaches us to be merciful to others and we do have to answer in the end whether with mercy or without )


The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:13-19‬ ‭NIV‬‬

I suppose this is why he kept saying my words my teachings hesr what I’m saying it’s spirit and life

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24, 26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The things Jesus taught can save us if we aren’t perfect by herring and keeping his word

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; ( remember he has all judgement and authority and said his words are forever he’s the judge of all mankind )

good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again……


And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38, 46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Forgiving others is one of the foundational principles we depend on when we fail . Because we aren’t perfect we need to be perfect in mercy towards others who offend us or do wrong. In the end we all need a lot of mercy Jesus is teaching believers about mercy

Be merciful as God has been and will be to you , forgive and you will be forgiven don’t condemn and you won’t be condemned . This is what the man in the parable of the kingdom wouldn’t accept if you forgive you will be forgiven that part is what condemned him he didn’t forgive the other man’s debt like the lord forgave his

This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

“And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see;

and that they which see might be made blind.”
‭‭John‬ ‭9:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. ( Jesus teachings John 8:31-32) For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy;

and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭

If we aren’t perfect we need to believe this principle of our lord and the judge who died for our forgivness

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s always black and white with God “ if you do this I’ll do this said the lord “

abut if you do this other thing I will also

 

[montana123]

There is no forgiveness unless we forgive people for offending us.

Love, and forgiveness is how God wants the world to operate, and the lack of that is no salvation.

Before the flood the world was filled with violence, and they corrupted God's ways on earth, and the imaginations of their heart was only evil continually.

So God flooded the earth for none of them were right with Him and there was no reversal.

If God did not intervene more people would of been killed than the flood.

It will happen again when the world rebels against God with the nations governments together which they stopped the preaching of a personal God and believe aliens are going to help mankind to have peace, advance, and evolve, which they talk about the return of the gods.

They will not have love, and forgiveness, and the imaginations of their heart will be only evil continually, and they will reduce the population by terrible means, and go against all people who oppose them with the antichrist convincing them that they are doing the will of nature which by peace he shall destroy many.

So God has to intervene again but He will end sin on earth this time.

 

[Omegatime]

I have a different take on this story/parable.

When Jesus spoke 70 X 7 I see him first speaking to Israel and second referring to the 70 X 7 of the prophet Daniel.

24 “Seventy weeks of years ( 70 X 7 ) are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

Israel has to the end of the Tribulation to accept Jesus as the Messiah. Those that take the mark need not apply

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There is no forgiveness unless we forgive people for offending us.

Love, and forgiveness is how God wants the world to operate, and the lack of that is no salvation.

Before the flood the world was filled with violence, and they corrupted God's ways on earth, and the imaginations of their heart was only evil continually.

So God flooded the earth for none of them were right with Him and there was no reversal.

If God did not intervene more people would of been killed than the flood.

It will happen again when the world rebels against God with the nations governments together which they stopped the preaching of a personal God and believe aliens are going to help mankind to have peace, advance, and evolve, which they talk about the return of the gods.

They will not have love, and forgiveness, and the imaginations of their heart will be only evil continually, and they will reduce the population by terrible means, and go against all people who oppose them with the antichrist convincing them that they are doing the will of nature which by peace he shall destroy many.

So God has to intervene again but He will end sin on earth this time.

mercy is mutual it comes to us first from God the source , then it flows out from us to others in his name

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I have a different take on this story/parable.

When Jesus spoke 70 X 7 I see him first speaking to Israel and second referring to the 70 X 7 of the prophet Daniel.

24 “Seventy weeks of years ( 70 X 7 ) are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

Israel has to the end of the Tribulation to accept Jesus as the Messiah. Those that take the mark need not apply

Yes but it’s an answer to peters question

“Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i dont see how this ties to that prophecy it seems like Peter asked about forgiving others and Jesus answered then told a parable where the guy is forgiven uo front then won’t forgive them it concludes the lesson like this

“So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:35‬ ‭

It seems like a clear teaching of the lord about forgivness to me but it’s only how I see it

peter asks

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus tells a parable about forgivness in the kingdom of God then concludes the tesching

So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:35‬ ‭

often tbey ask Jesus direct questions and he answers clearly

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Like the guy in that parable

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https:

 

[Marilyn]

what is forgiveness like in Gods kingdom ?

That is what those under the LAW had to do - forgive others first before God would forgive them. However, in the Body of Christ we are forgiven FIRST and out of that we forgive.

Big difference because of Christs sacrifice.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That is what those under the LAW had to do - forgive others first before God would forgive them. However, in the Body of Christ we are forgiven FIRST and out of that we forgive.

Big difference because of Christs sacrifice.

Where is that in the law ? It’s not in the law anywhere Jesus is preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God

“The law and the prophets were until John ( the Baptist )

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus didn’t preach the law he preached the gospel of the kingdom

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This isn’t the law it’s the gospel of the kingdom it’s for Gods children who believe in Jesus

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its the son of God teaching those that believes in him about God the father

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the things Jesus taught in the gospel aren’t the law of Moses it’s the gospel of the kingdom the truth that saves us who believe

“For the law was given by Moses,

but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You won’t find Moses teaching in the law that if you forgive you’ll be forgiven. You hear that in the gospel from the judge

“The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)

that word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem;

whom they slew and hanged on a tree: him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:36-40, 42-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s just basic and simple God forgave us now he’s commanded us to forgive others we can say we’re born again but if we also need to reject his word and judgements we’re probably missing something

 

[Nehemiah6]

That is what those under the LAW had to do - forgive others first before God would forgive them.

The spiritual principles of Christ are not contradictory. Even after people are saved, the same principle applies. Christians pray the Lord's Prayer all the time, and hopefully mean what they pray.

Matthew 6: WE ARE TO FORGIVE IN ORDER TO BE FORGIVEN
12 And forgive us our debts [trespasses or sins], as we forgive our debtors.13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Repentance is necessary for the remission of sins as well as for salvation . And repentance includes the forsaking of all grudges. Christians cannot hold grudges, so the matter of "the Law" does not even apply. There is nothing in the Law about this, but the Lord told Peter the Christian principle regarding forgiveness. Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. (Mt 18:21,22)

 

[timemeddler]

not to derail, but did you notice that in both cases the person asked for forgivness?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That is what those under the LAW had to do - forgive others first before God would forgive them. However, in the Body of Christ we are forgiven FIRST and out of that we forgive.

Big difference because of Christs sacrifice.

did you notice in the parable the man is forgive freely first ?

““Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:23-27‬ ‭

The man received grace and his debt eas freely canceled by the lord he didn’t do anything but ask in supplication repenting over his debt to save his family it was because the lord was merciful to him . Here’s what the man then does after he’s forgiven all his debt

““But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded. “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’ “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:28-30‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The man having just been forgiven all his big debt he couldn’t pay now will not forgive another who owes him a small amount and hikes it against him . This is the result of that

““Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to.

Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. “

( now Jesus the son is telling believers something true believe it or not )


This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:32-35‬ ‭NIV‬‬

This is the gospel and can save i perfect people who still make mistakes and need mercy

“because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s life sister there’s no reason for us to reject the things our lord taught us about our father in heaven

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we want to learn of God the father and come to know him we need Jesus teachings

“If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats true and So is this

“But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we should be able to trust the son teaching us of the father

 

[Pilgrimshope]

not to derail, but did you notice that in both cases the person asked for forgivness?

but not in this case it’s in the context of the relationship between the believer and God thier father

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It shouldn’t be a thing if we have the spirit of Christ in us

“And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:33-34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We should if we have the spirit of Christ in us be able to forgive freely and from the heart and certainly should be able to agree with his teachings

 

[Marilyn]

Where is that in the law ? It’s not in the law anywhere Jesus is preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God

“The law and the prophets were until John ( the Baptist )

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus didn’t preach the law he preached the gospel of the kingdom

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This isn’t the law it’s the gospel of the kingdom it’s for Gods children who believe in Jesus

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its the son of God teaching those that believes in him about God the father

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the things Jesus taught in the gospel aren’t the law of Moses it’s the gospel of the kingdom the truth that saves us who believe

“For the law was given by Moses,

but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You won’t find Moses teaching in the law that if you forgive you’ll be forgiven. You hear that in the gospel from the judge

“The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)

that word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem;

whom they slew and hanged on a tree: him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:36-40, 42-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s just basic and simple God forgave us now he’s commanded us to forgive others we can say we’re born again but if we also need to reject his word and judgements we’re probably missing something

The people were still under the law when Jesus came to earth. Jesus preached the kingdom/His rulership through Israel in the millennium. You are quoting scripture that is BEFORE the Body of Christ, BEFORE Christ died, rose and ascended.

So, do you tell people they must forgive others BEFORE God will forgive them?

 

[Marilyn]

The spiritual principles of Christ are not contradictory. Even after people are saved, the same principle applies. Christians pray the Lord's Prayer all the time, and hopefully mean what they pray.

Matthew 6: WE ARE TO FORGIVE IN ORDER TO BE FORGIVEN
12 And forgive us our debts [trespasses or sins], as we forgive our debtors.13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Repentance is necessary for the remission of sins as well as for salvation . And repentance includes the forsaking of all grudges. Christians cannot hold grudges, so the matter of "the Law" does not even apply. There is nothing in the Law about this, but the Lord told Peter the Christian principle regarding forgiveness. Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. (Mt 18:21,22)

The Lord`s prayer was to the people of Israel. They had to forgive before they are forgiven. They had to pray the kingdom/rulership come, whereas we have the Lord`s rulership in our hearts already and God forgives us FIRST and then we are able to forgive others.

Yes, Israel had 70 x 7 of National chastisement.

 

[Hakawaka]

The Lord`s prayer was to the people of Israel. They had to forgive before they are forgiven. They had to pray the kingdom/rulership come, whereas we have the Lord`s rulership in our hearts already and God forgives us FIRST and then we are able to forgive others.

Yes, Israel had 70 x 7 of National chastisement.

Take notes people, this is what happens when dispensationalism consumes someone. Its all to someone else.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Lord`s prayer was to the people of Israe

This is hilarious. What next? You sure know how to spin the truth, The Lord's Prayer is said by millions of Christians today and has been for centuries. Show us ONE CLAUSE in the Lord's Prayer that is only for Israel.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The people were still under the law when Jesus came to earth. Jesus preached the kingdom/His rulership through Israel in the millennium. You are quoting scripture that is BEFORE the Body of Christ, BEFORE Christ died, rose and ascended.

So, do you tell people they must forgive others BEFORE God will forgive them?

“You are quoting scripture that is BEFORE the Body of Christ, BEFORE Christ died, rose and ascended.”

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God preached the gospel to israel first and after he did he sent them to preach ot to everyone all people the same gospel same word he began preaching after John

This word

“The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all that word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:36-40, 42-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you think God erases his judgements when Jesus shed his blood it’s a bad mistake that’s the moment it became official and forever

“

In the end sister what Jesus said about everything is going to be the judgement it’s why believing saves souls

awe can do this with what God taught in the gospel

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Do not condemn and you will not be condemned forgive and you will be forgiven don’t judge and you won’t be judged “

or we can do this with what he said

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬


this can save someone that’s not perfect if they don’t reject the lords word

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We can reject what God said but it’s not a wise thing to do

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

wouldn t it be better to go there having accepted his judgement like “ if you don’t judge you won’t be judged ? if you don’t condemn you won’t be condemned , if you forgive you’ll be forgiven “

We should be willing to learn things we haven’t thought before if it’s clear in scrioture it’s the only way we can get in agreement with the gospel

 

[p_rehbein]

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s always black and white with God “ if you do this I’ll do this said the lord “

abut if you do this other thing I will also

And, yet, some will say that once saved, none of this is necessary. To forgive the tresspasses of others, and to ask for the forgiveness of their trespasses after they are saved.

Sad, truly sad...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And, yet, some will say that once saved, none of this is necessary. To forgive the tresspasses of others, and to ask for the forgiveness of their trespasses after they are saved.

Sad, truly sad...

Yes the idea that salvstion is not how Jesus explains it is , the he the lord who died for our sins doesn’t get to make the judgements or his words are null and void now

this seems absurd but then

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy;

and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:

condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭


“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

what if we go there believing what he’s said will save us ? Like mercy and repentance and learning from and following him keeping his words and teachings not perfectly of course but that’s our way home and we believe and know so we follow after the truth believing and pressing forth into those things seeming hard and challenging now later those things become natural to the new person and there’s a new challenging thing brought to light and we just grow from faith to faith and we learn and accept the truth

 

[Omegatime]

The Lord`s prayer was to the people of Israel. They had to forgive before they are forgiven. They had to pray the kingdom/rulership come, whereas we have the Lord`s rulership in our hearts already and God forgives us FIRST and then we are able to forgive others.

Yes, Israel had 70 x 7 of National chastisement.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I totally agree that the prayer was for Israel but during the Tribulation

Where it says "Lead us not into temptations,". The lord leads no one into temptation for we all are tempted.

Where I agree the scriptures that support the word test, trial, ect for temptation is correct. AKA Tribulation

End time prayer

Lead us not into the Tribulation but keep us from the evil one ( antichrist )

 

[Pilgrimshope]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I totally agree that the prayer was for Israel but during the Tribulation

Where it says "Lead us not into temptations,". The lord leads no one into temptation for we all are tempted.

Where I agree the scriptures that support the word test, trial, ect for temptation is correct. AKA Tribulation

End time prayer

Lead us not into the Tribulation but keep us from the evil one ( antichrist )

“And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

…But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:7, 9, 11‬ ‭

“For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.( believers in Jesus asking Jesus the son of God whos praying how to pray )

And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, ( it’s for Gods children believers in Jesus ) Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.

And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

( he tells a story about being persistent in prayer if we don’t see anything happening ) then

…….. And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭11:1-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why would the lord only teach Israelites how to pray ? Or that they need to be merciful ? And forgive and not judge and not condemn ? He’s teaching elievees in him how to address God the father in prayer and forcing an example of the things we should focus our prayer life upon

maybe we can’t overcome our sins because we never think to pray earnestly for God to help us keep us away from temptation and feed us life giving food and keep us from evil ect we the church “Christian’s “ are Jesus disciples also

“…And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭11:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭2:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

first to Israel

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then To all people after jesus rose

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the law of ( 1) the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus

hath made me free from the law of ( 2) sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

No condemnation the Law of the spirit of life

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

set me free from the law of sin and death

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

law of sin and death
This is Sin

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the punishment is death

“………the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus the gospel

“And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, they say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: ( sin and death )

but what sayest thou?

…… he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last:


and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. ( jesus has saved her from the law of sin and death )



And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:3-5, 7, 9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He caused these men to look at rhier own selves and thier own sin and it caused them to find mercy for the sinner. The gospel also does this and then calls us to repentance teaching us to stop serving sin