How non believers may view Christian's.

[Nufan]

In terms of differences with Christian denominations these are over more minor doctrines, or really over largely the question of authority. This is why the 3 points listed in Post #4 (Jesus life as explained in the Apostle's Creed, the trinity doctrine describing God as explained in the Athanasian Creed, and holding the Bible as the divinely inspired religious text of Christianity) are really the main unifier and way to distinguish a legitimate Christian denomination from either a pagan religion or a heretical sect. All valid Christians are unified as a whole Christian religion in that they hold the 3 beliefs listed.

A 4th perhaps side point that is sometimes made is that a valid denomination should have a historical link to the apostolic succession as well to distinguish it from a more modern cult or a passing movement that comes and goes in the course of history. The historical link to the apostolic succession gives a sort of objective chain from the apostles in the Bible to the modern day as opposed to a newfound and questionable denomination that claims to have some new revelation to try to justify them bringing a different gospel typically to the worldly benefit of one person (a cult leader) or a group of people or political movement. Though one could even consider this something of a moot point since most newfound denominations that do not have a historical link to the apostles also tend to reject one or more of the three core beliefs of Christianity and therefore they could be considerred wholly different religions or elsewise heretical to the point of being outside of the unity of Christianity (ie: islam, jehovah's witnesses, mormonism, etc.)

I agree with this, or else one become misguided. We have books to connect us with teaching through apostolic succession. We dont need the establishment. All they have is books too.

 

[Nufan]

They are free to call themselves whatever they want, just as you are free to go around pointing a finger and saying they are not REAL Christians.

Frankly what I've had quite enough of is people running around trying to call other people out as fakes. Everybody's trying to play watchdog, or maybe measuring stick, trying to ascertain whether everybody else is a real Christian or not.

I got all I can handle making sure I'm a Christian. So do the people I might criticize for not being real christians. They probably don't need my help and I certainly don't have the time to measure out their lives AND mine.

And the next time someone tells me how not-Christian some alleged Christians are, I'm going to get very sarcastic and very fault finding with the person trying to do the measuring. Best way to shut up a nitpicker is to pick a few of his own nits and hold them up for inspection.

Ok, I agree.

 

[SonJudgment]

I agree with this, or else one become misguided. We have books to connect us with teaching through apostolic succession. We dont need the establishment. All they have is books too.

Yea, the point on the historical link to the apostolic succession is more or less a guard against cults that claim to be Christian, especially in our time era. Though again this point is somewhat of a more background point since really the 3 core beliefs are the most important points of detailing absolute unity of Christianity as a religion and frankly cults that have no clear historical link to the apostolic succession are probably just going to deny one or all of the 3 major points anyways. A good example of this is the mormons, not only do they have no historical link to the apostolic succession, being founded pretty much out of thin air and can only really trace their religion back to Joseph Smith solely in history, but they obviously deny the trinity doctrine, so even without consulting to their history it is obvious they are outside of the unity of Christianity.

 

[Nufan]

Yea, the point on the historical link to the apostolic succession is more or less a guard against cults that claim to be Christian, especially in our time era. Though again this point is somewhat of a more background point since really the 3 core beliefs are the most important points of detailing absolute unity of Christianity as a religion and frankly cults that have no clear historical link to the apostolic succession are probably just going to deny one or all of the 3 major points anyways. A good example of this is the mormons, not only do they have no historical link to the apostolic succession, being founded pretty much out of thin air and can only really trace their religion back to Joseph Smith solely in history, but they obviously deny the trinity doctrine, so even without consulting to their history it is obvious they are outside of the unity of Christianity.

Nicene creed sums it all up.

 

[SonJudgment]

Nicene creed sums it all up.

Indeed the Nicene Creed is a good summary of the 2 major beliefs of Jesus' role as well as the trinity doctrine which the Apostle's Creed and Athanasian Creed more thoroughly explain, and of course both these beliefs are found in the Bible and the honest reader and thorough student of the Bible can only really come to these conclusions. It is not without accident most cults will attack the Council of Nicaea and the Nicene Creed since after all the Nicene Creed was formed by the clearest historical successors of the apostles to both detail the unity of true Christianity and distinguish it from a popular heresy of their time called Arianism which was started primarily as a cult for the ego of one man named Arius.

 

[Magenta]

Nicene creed sums it all up.

This I believe (The Creed) - Hillsong Worship

 

[Mem]

It all comes down to the wheat and the tares, without forgetting the field is the world.
I had a sort of melancholy professor in a philosophy class who related his having left his faith behind in the Catholic religion. Coming to exercise he gave us for comment was in response to a philosopher who seemed to me to have it 'right' concerning his main focus on what he called the 'truth with a capital T." So right it seemed to me that I researched the author having been intrigued to perhaps find more material from him (interested in his religious affiliation no doubt though I found no explicit mention of it). However, what I found was that, ultimately, he had hanged himself, and this is what I determined to address in my graded commentary, that this particular man seemed wise about the hope that finding the 'capital T truth' provides except that the despairing 'last word' message he left by hanging himself seemed to contradict all that he'd previously asserted. And I left off with the question of whether he truly believed what he preached. Although I did not actually intend it for the resulting effect on my professor but, nonetheless, I can't forget his notes to me that I'd given him pause to revisit the reality of his own faith.
There is the possibility that the mentioned author came to despair because it didn't seem that anyone else was following his otherwise undeniably wise thinking, but that would've amounted to rejecting an aspect of the capital T truth just as much, considering that the truth (with a capital T) is as it stands regardless of whether the rest of the world agrees.

 

[Magenta]

It all comes down to the wheat and the tares, without forgetting the field is the world.
I had a sort of melancholy professor in a philosophy class who related his having left his faith behind in the Catholic religion. Coming to exercise he gave us for comment was in response to a philosopher who seemed to me to have it 'right' concerning his main focus on what he called the 'truth with a capital T." So right it seemed to me that I researched the author having been intrigued to perhaps find more material from him (interested in his religious affiliation no doubt though I found no explicit mention of it). However, what I found was that, ultimately, he had hanged himself, and this is what I determined to address in my graded commentary, that this particular man seemed wise about the hope that finding the 'capital T truth' provides except that the despairing 'last word' message he left by hanging himself seemed to contradict all that he'd previously asserted. And I left off with the question of whether he truly believed what he preached. Although I did not actually intend it for the resulting effect on my professor but, nonetheless, I can't forget his notes to me that I'd given him pause to revisit the reality of his own faith.
There is the possibility that the mentioned author came to despair because it didn't seem that anyone else was following his otherwise undeniably wise thinking, but that would've amounted to rejecting an aspect of the capital T truth just as much, considering that the truth (with a capital T) is as it stands regardless of whether the rest of the world agrees.

That is sad, and I am sorry to hear of your melancholy professor's demise... it brings to mind the 2011
movie The Sunset Limited (<= link) with Samuel L. Jackson and Tommy Lee Jones. Did you ever see it?
The tagline says, Through a chance encounter, two men of opposing ideologies deliberate spiritual,
philosophical, and profound matters in a New York City apartment. What that means is that one of them
is a man of faith and the other an atheist who would rather commit suicide than bend the knee.
If you have not seen it, I would recommend watching it... though not the happiest of movies...

 

[Mem]

That is sad, and I am sorry to hear of your melancholy professor's demise... it brings to mind the 2011
movie The Sunset Limited (<= link) with Samuel L. Jackson and Tommy Lee Jones. Did you ever see it?
The tagline says, Through a chance encounter, two men of opposing ideologies deliberate spiritual,
philosophical, and profound matters in a New York City apartment. What that means is that one of them
is a man of faith and the other an atheist who would rather commit suicide than bend the knee.
If you have not seen it, I would recommend watching it... though not the happiest of movies...

Happily, it was not my professor that had hanged himself but that indicated his faith might be in the process of reignition (though not necessarily in the direction of returning to the catholic religion since I did not inquire any further, trusting the Truth would do His work if he meant to diligently search Him out). It was actually the author of the assigned reading that hanged himself. I apologize if I wasn't able to make that clear. Hopefully, my professor is alive and well (and, again hopefully, has received the Truth with joy).

I might've come across that movie somewhere but haven't watched it, but I'd have been more ready to if you hadn't offered that warning "not the happiest of movies"! Only tears of joy here, please and thank you! Not that I avoid dark subjects, A Long Way Down with Piers Brosnan brought tears and also Angel Eyes with Jim Caviezel and Jennifer Lopez, but... I won't spoil it if you haven't seen any of them...Oh! I meant to write of seeing Atlas (2024) today too, in the movies thread (if I can relocate it)! /See you there!

 

[Nufan]

That is sad, and I am sorry to hear of your melancholy professor's demise... it brings to mind the 2011
movie The Sunset Limited (<= link) with Samuel L. Jackson and Tommy Lee Jones. Did you ever see it?
The tagline says, Through a chance encounter, two men of opposing ideologies deliberate spiritual,
philosophical, and profound matters in a New York City apartment. What that means is that one of them
is a man of faith and the other an atheist who would rather commit suicide than bend the knee.
If you have not seen it, I would recommend watching it... though not the happiest of movies...

Im going to check that out.
I think its important to understand that god didn't fail him. People claiming to know god failed him. This is what my argument has been about. My example has no power if im not claiming to know god, but to say you know god and be a bad example this is dangerous. If you make that claim then you better make sure your example puts god in a good light. Otherwise your claim and example is not a benefit for god but a hindrance. In that case the enemy is at work claiming to be god.

 

[Nufan]

Happily, it was not my professor that had hanged himself but that indicated his faith might be in the process of reignition (though not necessarily in the direction of returning to the catholic religion since I did not inquire any further, trusting the Truth would do His work if he meant to diligently search Him out). It was actually the author of the assigned reading that hanged himself. I apologize if I wasn't able to make that clear. Hopefully, my professor is alive and well (and, again hopefully, has received the Truth with joy).

I might've come across that movie somewhere but haven't watched it, but I'd have been more ready to if you hadn't offered that warning "not the happiest of movies"! Only tears of joy here, please and thank you! Not that I avoid dark subjects, A Long Way Down with Piers Brosnan brought tears and also Angel Eyes with Jim Caviezel and Jennifer Lopez, but... I won't spoil it if you haven't seen any of them...Oh! I meant to write of seeing Atlas (2024) today too, in the movies thread (if I can relocate it)! /See you there!

And that brings me to my other point. That the Christian community has convinced me that god is not at work. Actually If I didn't know any better, I would become skeptical and believe that there is no god. Then christians want to turn around and get upset at atheist for not believing in their god. So athiest then try to point out that we don't belive because the fruit is bad. Is that their falt or christianitys fault. Why is the Christian community so offended by non believers pointing out their poor example. This is why the bar to be Christian shouldn't be low. All this really shows is christians really don't believe in what they claim to believe. A good start whould be for Christians to come together and stop fighting. Untill that happens you have no right to say god is at work.

 

[Mem]

And that brings me to my other point. That the Christian community has convinced me that god is not at work. Actually If I didn't know any better, I would become skeptical and believe that there is no god. Then christians want to turn around and get upset at atheist for not believing in their god. So athiest then try to point out that we don't belive because the fruit is bad. Is that their falt or christianitys fault. Why is the Christian community so offended by non believers pointing out their poor example. This is why the bar to be Christian shouldn't be low. All this really shows is christians really don't believe in what they claim to believe. A good start whould be for Christians to come together and stop fighting. Until that happens you have no right to say god is at work.

I don't know if it's that simple to 'stop fighting.' I mean, as long as there is resistance, that is a force working against another, fighting is necessary to keep standing, right? So, effectively, you are calling all of us to stop resisting, but who knowingly resists real love? Yet, there's evidence many do considering so many have actually rejected even our Lord.

I couldn't find the movie thread I was thinking of but what I just said reminded me of the movie that I just watched, Atlas, and seeing J Lo playing the title character I decided to sit through it and was not disappointed. I'll offer the advisory that its central theme is generated around AI, sort of like Short Circuit but amped up not just a little but it was able to activate my tears duct to a point, if you can take it in abstracts. I didn't notice the bonus that the antagonist is the lead in Shang Chi: The Legend of the Ten Rings until he engaged Atlas in battle going into a fight stance (and that since this film is completed then he might be free to film Shang Chi II)!

 

[Nufan]

I don't know if it's that simple to 'stop fighting.' I mean, as long as there is resistance, that is a force working against another, fighting is necessary to keep standing, right? So, effectively, you are calling all of us to stop resisting, but who knowingly resists real love? Yet, there's evidence many do considering so many have actually rejected even our Lord.

I couldn't find the movie thread I was thinking of but what I just said reminded me of the movie that I just watched, Atlas, and seeing J Lo playing the title character I decided to sit through it and was not disappointed. I'll offer the advisory that its central theme is generated around AI, sort of like Short Circuit but amped up not just a little but it was able to activate my tears duct to a point, if you can take it in abstracts. I didn't notice the bonus that the antagonist is the lead in Shang Chi: The Legend of the Ten Rings until he engaged Atlas in battle going into a fight stance (and that since this film is completed then he might be free to film Shang Chi II)!

I would disagree with that.I believe that we can all agree on the Nicene Creed ad that should be enough to come together and stop fighting. It really is that simple. Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Love others in the same way god has loved you.

1 John 3:15 ESV / 639 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:20 ESV / 532 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

1 John 2:9 ESV / 311 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness.

James 4:11-12 ESV / 78 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Titus 3:2 ESV / 140 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

Matthew 7:1-5 ESV / 103 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

James 1:26 ESV / 89 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

So if you believe in the Nicene creed then you are brothers and sisters. To be divided and speak bad about a brother and sister is hatful. According to the bible most Christian institutions permit and teach division. There for speaking poorly of one another. This is whats called a bigot. According to the bible christianity encourages murder, false religon, blind guiding the blind, evil talk, to deny god, to walk in darkness, to love with your lips and not your heart. Is this god at work.

 

[Magenta]

Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Love others in the same way god has loved you.

That's not wat you are doing...

To be divided and speak bad about a brother and sister is hatful.

That is what you are doing.

 

[Nufan]

That's not wat you are doing...

That is what you are doing.

Im not christian or making any claim about god. This is a christian problem not my problem.

 

[Nufan]

That's not wat you are doing...

That is what you are doing.

Im also adressing the christian institution not the sheep seeking god. Im not a christian but I believe in the creed

 

[Nufan]

That's not wat you are doing...

That is what you are doing.

Would you like to continue judging and speaking poorly of me. I suppose you know god too.

 

[Nufan]

There are those who hate the one who upholds justice in court and detest the one who tells the truth. Amos 5:10

Im not spreading lies. The Christian institutions are not of god but the advisory. Just admit that religon teaches hate. And the creed unifies us.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Im not christian or making any claim about god. This is a christian problem not my problem.

Thanks for clarifying you're not a Christian; puts things in a whole new perspective. You should consider giving your life to Christ and following Him in water baptism. Being a disciple of the Lord isn't about institutional religion.

 

[Nufan]

Thanks for clarifying you're not a Christian; puts things in a whole new perspective. You should consider giving your life to Christ and following Him in water baptism. Being a disciple of the Lord isn't about institutional religion.

I have. I belive in the creed, been baptized, and try to follow him. Just so you know the apostles also weren't christian. They were followers of christ. Christian was just a name given to followers of christ. Now christianity follows the advisory and not followers of christ. To be religous is to be a bigot. The creed unifies us so we are bolth brothers.