How non believers may view Christian's.
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Christ taught his disciples to do what the pharisees told them to do because what they were instructing them to do was correct. They are experts in keeping the law and following it. Christ also says that your righteousness needs to surpass the pharisees or you will not enter the kindom of heaven. Jesus advised them not to do as they do. Because they are hypocrites, they're teaching is sound, but the way they live their life is not reflecting a relationship with god. Their works are evil and their fruit is bad.
You are bouncing around so much I feel like I'm playing a pinball game.
It's hard to pinpoint exactly what your beef is. The only thing that is clear right now is, you really hate churches in general for some reason.
I thought it was about not getting along together, then I thought it was about money, then I thought it was about the pastor's personal finances, and now I have no idea what your problem with churches in general is.
It's hard to pinpoint exactly what your beef is. The only thing that is clear right now is, you really hate churches in general for some reason.
I thought it was about not getting along together, then I thought it was about money, then I thought it was about the pastor's personal finances, and now I have no idea what your problem with churches in general is.
Well, I'm speaking simple english. I don't know why you don't understand. Let me give you a run down. I don't believe that the majority of the churches in the world today are being led and guided by a loving God. They are being lead and guided by an aversary that is bringing confusion and division amongst the Christian people and therefore they are becoming a bad example of what it means to be Christian and a follower of Jesus Christ. Why do I say that? Well because the fruit says that. They are watering down the true message and bringing the bar so low that anybody can become a member of the Christian faith as a follower of Jesus Christ. Most of your pastors and churches are leading and guiding you to travel the wide path Because they have to follow the agenda and the instruction of the institution that overseas them and funds them and unfortunately, their focus is not christ minded. It's business minded and that's why the churches are becoming more and more worldly. I'm also trying to point out why a non-believer would be skeptical because the Christian church is making claims about god that they themselves do not demonstraight. It's making god look weak and pathetic becuse our example of god is weak and pathetic, and is being demonstrated by those who claim to be followers of this god. So why would I want to be a part of that?
The thing is, you'll never find a group of Christians that agree 100% this side of heaven. If that's what you're looking for, I can almost guarantee you'll never find it.
Look at what was happening even in Jesus's day -- some people insisted on following Jesus, while others thought there was merit to following John the Baptist. And even though John tried to correct them, some people thought they were better for following one or the other, somehow missing that John's whole purpose was leading to Jesus.
Fast forward to after Jesus had ascended into heaven, others took pride in saying they followed Paul, as if Paul was a separate belief system from Jesus Himself.
I heard a sermon once pointing out that even Jesus had two unanswered prayers during His lifetime here on earth:
1. He prayed the that the cup of suffering would pass over Him (and the answer was no.)
2. He prayed for unity among believers (and the answer was either no, or else, not yet.)
If Jesus Himself prayed for unity among the church and never saw it in this life, I think we as believers have to accept that it may never happen here in our lifetimes either.
That leaves us with a choice:
1. Find a Body of Christ to join that we can at least have peace with being part of, even with all its flaws (which ALL churches will have,) but choose to learn and serve anyway if they are willing to accept OUR flaws, or:
2. Become a lone wolf, never joining anything or anyone but always pointing out the specks and planks in every one else's eyes -- leaving us dangerously and increasingly more unaware of our own.
Believe me, I understand your frustration -- I've felt it all my life.
But from my experience, people who go off on their own because they decide everyone is a hypocrite and they can't join because they miss their own hypocrisy only become more and more fanatical and completely out of touch over time.
Look at what was happening even in Jesus's day -- some people insisted on following Jesus, while others thought there was merit to following John the Baptist. And even though John tried to correct them, some people thought they were better for following one or the other, somehow missing that John's whole purpose was leading to Jesus.
Fast forward to after Jesus had ascended into heaven, others took pride in saying they followed Paul, as if Paul was a separate belief system from Jesus Himself.
I heard a sermon once pointing out that even Jesus had two unanswered prayers during His lifetime here on earth:
1. He prayed the that the cup of suffering would pass over Him (and the answer was no.)
2. He prayed for unity among believers (and the answer was either no, or else, not yet.)
If Jesus Himself prayed for unity among the church and never saw it in this life, I think we as believers have to accept that it may never happen here in our lifetimes either.
That leaves us with a choice:
1. Find a Body of Christ to join that we can at least have peace with being part of, even with all its flaws (which ALL churches will have,) but choose to learn and serve anyway if they are willing to accept OUR flaws, or:
2. Become a lone wolf, never joining anything or anyone but always pointing out the specks and planks in every one else's eyes -- leaving us dangerously and increasingly more unaware of our own.
Believe me, I understand your frustration -- I've felt it all my life.
But from my experience, people who go off on their own because they decide everyone is a hypocrite and they can't join because they miss their own hypocrisy only become more and more fanatical and completely out of touch over time.
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That's not what I'm saying at all. Yes, I agree, you make a good point. What I'm pointing out is the institution that oversees the pastor in the church. That's what I'm talking about. We didn't have that back in the biblical times. Yes, people are not going to agree, but did Paul and Peter go separate ways or did they eventually come together and come against the judaizers? They eventually came together and were in agreement, they worked it out. There were also those that divided and went separate ways.They just weren't interested in being part of what they were doing.So they became a part of something else that they were interested in doing.And that's just the will God.He has a plan for our life. Not everyone's gonna be in agreement when it comes to god's plans for their life. But what's up with all the division? I would say that even those that were still within the church family were not divided. They supported one another. They just didn't want to take part in their ministry. They still considered one another as brothers.And there wasn't this bigotry that we see in the christian church today.
Funny you should mention all this about not being funded by an organization and getting along with other churches and all...
My church is affiliated with the United Pentecostal Church International. It's not really a controlling organization though. It's more a ministerial association. They don't rule us or control our finances. The UPCI, aside from posting missionaries in foreign countries, mostly serves the same purpose as the letters of recommendation in the early church - so we'll know our own without having to get someone else we know to personally vouch for them.
As for the churches in my town, we all contribute to a common fund for helping people. This keeps liars from draining church after church after church - they only have one place to drain before they have to move on. That way the people who really need help still get it.
Our churches also collaborate for church services on the week before Easter. And every year a different church takes a turn hosting the Easter sunrise service. And we have community Thanksgiving service, and in spring we have a community service at the park.
Well... ALMOST all the churches. Church of Christ never has anything to do with the rest of us.
My church is affiliated with the United Pentecostal Church International. It's not really a controlling organization though. It's more a ministerial association. They don't rule us or control our finances. The UPCI, aside from posting missionaries in foreign countries, mostly serves the same purpose as the letters of recommendation in the early church - so we'll know our own without having to get someone else we know to personally vouch for them.
As for the churches in my town, we all contribute to a common fund for helping people. This keeps liars from draining church after church after church - they only have one place to drain before they have to move on. That way the people who really need help still get it.
Our churches also collaborate for church services on the week before Easter. And every year a different church takes a turn hosting the Easter sunrise service. And we have community Thanksgiving service, and in spring we have a community service at the park.
Well... ALMOST all the churches. Church of Christ never has anything to do with the rest of us.
What will you do if the Lord wants your church to plant churches elsewhere?
There are pros and cons to every situation. I've been a part of both affiliated and non affiliated churches. The only issue for me was whether my family and I were growing in the Lord.
It is difficult in our day and time to find churches that truly worship in spirit and truth, but they do exist. If you can't find one, get together with like-minded people and start a house church and see what the LORD might do.
There are pros and cons to every situation. I've been a part of both affiliated and non affiliated churches. The only issue for me was whether my family and I were growing in the Lord.
It is difficult in our day and time to find churches that truly worship in spirit and truth, but they do exist. If you can't find one, get together with like-minded people and start a house church and see what the LORD might do.
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Also, most of you're key players in the Bible were put to death for living out their faith.I don't know much about this guy or what was involved. You do need to use discernment and you do need to take a look at the fruit.
Some of these Groups sects and denominations that are non tithing, churches, and I'm not talking about the congregation. I'm talking about the one who leads the congregation.
Would be early american baptist, Anabaptists, church of christ, puritans, pilgrims, Jehovahs witness, and separatists. Non tithing Christian organizations would be 119 ministries, christianity works, dallas thilogical seminary, moody bible institute, southern Baptist thilogical seminary, the berean call, the masters seminary. Then non tithing churches by state. In texas for example you have redeeming the time baptist church, church without religon, the village church, organic gathering with Alan caplin, watermark community church. Of course use discernment but this should dial you in on churches that are not sold out and watered down for an institution.
Some of these Groups sects and denominations that are non tithing, churches, and I'm not talking about the congregation. I'm talking about the one who leads the congregation.
Would be early american baptist, Anabaptists, church of christ, puritans, pilgrims, Jehovahs witness, and separatists. Non tithing Christian organizations would be 119 ministries, christianity works, dallas thilogical seminary, moody bible institute, southern Baptist thilogical seminary, the berean call, the masters seminary. Then non tithing churches by state. In texas for example you have redeeming the time baptist church, church without religon, the village church, organic gathering with Alan caplin, watermark community church. Of course use discernment but this should dial you in on churches that are not sold out and watered down for an institution.