"Salvation": What Is It?

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dan1el

dan1el

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Feb 19, 2010
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We started talking about this in Bible Discussion Room in Chat... but...

What, precisely, IS salvation?
What, precisely, is salvation NOT?
What is the proper RESPONSE/APPLICATION, in LIGHT of those TRUTHS?
I asked God to teach me, and He showed me a Cross...



Please share your understanding... if you do NOT understand the topic, do not post, please; if you are going to be MEAN, or get EMOTIONAL when someone asks a simple question based on Scripture, DO NOT BOTHER TO POST HERE, PLEASE! This is a cut-and-dry Scriptural discussion that has been started to FIND ANSWERS -- not to fling insults at one another.
 
Questions

1. Is "believing in Jesus"/"calling on the Lord" enough to be (ultimately) saved? What is "saved"? Is being PRESENTLY "saved" equivalent to ULTIMATE "salvation"? Why, then, does it speak about 3 grounds who believed the Word (in the parable of the Sower), but only ONE bore fruit unto maturity? Why does Jesus say, "whoever puts their hand to the plow, and looks back, is not worthy of the Kingdom of Heaven"? What about Hermogenes -- isn't he a specific example of being unworthy to enter the Kingdom? Doesn't this prove that being saved PRESENTLY does NOT equal ULTIMATE salvation?
If not, why are there people who will be destroyed, though they call Jesus "Lord", in Matthew 7? Doesn't that add another "dimension" to the pre-requisites for being ULTIMATELY saved (on the day of salvation)? 1 John warns the children to REMAIN IN CHRIST or else face being ASHAMED at the return of Jesus Christ, wherefore they might "DRAW BACK" in fear -- and Hebrews says "... but if he draw back, My Soul will find no pleasure in him"? Why does Matthew 22:12 talk about a guest at the wedding feast who does not have a wedding garment -- these who are comparable to those who are of the 144,000 "overcomers" who are WARNED that if they do not continue in PRAYER, they will lose their garments, and walk naked, and people will see the shame of their nakedness (these are the servants who enter the feast, but who do not have a garment, and are tossed into the outer darkness)? Then, you see that some of the 144,000 overcomers (1 John defines the "overcomers" as simply being those who believe -- "and what overcomes the world, except our faith?" + "and this is the victory -- even our faith") are destroyed: how is the Cross salvation? It seems more like those who continue in a relationship with God will be saved -- who continue in PRAYER... what stops us from praying, then?

2. Theory: prayer is important in salvation. Theory: the Spirit is the Spirit of the Savior -- therefore, the walking in the Spirit is walking in the Savior, and walking in the Savior is salvation (even proven by John 15). Theory: we are put INTO CHRIST, and we are to REMAIN IN HIM, as 1 John tells the children; as John 15 tells the branches. As Paul says, "being found in Him". Then, spiritual growth is in terms of "being found in Him" -- but being found in Him requires that I must believe His Words... and what if His Word is that I AM saved..?

Look up the Scriptures yourself if you have a question -- hopefully you are already familiar with them so that I don't have to post them. There are too many to post. Don't ask me to quote the Scriptures -- it really makes it A LOT EASIER for me (and in this case -- the first in many conversations, recently -- I will worry about the ease of use for myself, not others).
 
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If I do not believe I AM CURRENTLY SAVED, is that a disqualifier -- IF "I AM SAVED" is HIS WORD -- for REMAINING IN HIM?
 
Sin is disease that everybody is born with (for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God)
It a fatal disease-( for the wages of sin is death)
The only cure for the disease is Jesus
But we have to accept this cure to have it
Once we accept this cure we are saved from sin ...
 
jandian said:
Sin is disease that everybody is born with (for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God)
It a fatal disease-( for the wages of sin is death)
The only cure for the disease is Jesus
But we have to accept this cure to have it
Once we accept this cure we are saved from sin ...
Click to expand...

And yet many Christians will NOT enter the Kingdom of God.

"...How can we who died to sin still live in it?" Rom 6:2

Meaning: some DO live in it, and he was reprimanding them.

"Wake up from your drunken stupor, as is right, and do not go on sinning. For some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame." 1 Cor 15:34

What, then, is the solution to the question? What is equivalent to ULTIMATE salvation -- that is, "when everything is said and done", how can I be saved? "But those who ENDURE TILL THE END WILL BE SAVED.'' If someone WILL BE saved, then they are not CURRENTLY saved, are they?
 
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Well that is a truth that many do not believe

II Pet 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[a] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
 
jandian said:
Well that is a truth that many do not believe

II Pet 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[a] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
Click to expand...

That is what this thread is about: exploring the question of salvation, and how one may be ULTIMATELY saved -- saved when everything is said and done; not just "saved" by being among those who "call upon the name of the Lord".
 
Well I picked that up....But I dont read excessively long threads; so I tend to write them. In addition there are a few other threads going on and on with it... So I was almost going to bypass this thread. But hopefully somebody could be ministered to...

If they could only realise that we are not against the msg of grace, but simply understanding that salvation is a pretty big package.
Not only did Christ wash our sins but He gave us the power to have dominion over it
 
jandian said:
Well I picked that up....But I dont read excessively long threads; so I tend to write them. In addition there are a few other threads going on and on with it... So I was almost going to bypass this thread. But hopefully somebody could be ministered to...

If they could only realise that we are not against the msg of grace, but simply understanding that salvation is a pretty big package.
Not only did Christ wash our sins but He gave us the power to have dominion over it
Click to expand...

1. Sin is not only an action, but also INaction.
2. The Galatians "disobey[ed] the Truth": sin can be non-belief in Truth -- non-submission/rebellion against Reality. Reality is the Gospel. What is the message?
 
Obviously...Inaction is another form of disobedience...

I think the important thing is to have a real relationship with God. When you know someone, you know what they expect of you
 
jandian said:
Obviously...Inaction is another form of disobedience...

I think the important thing is to have a real relationship with God. When you know someone, you know what they expect of you
Click to expand...

Interesting... so, you're saying that we are saved by our own obedience & works?

Also, thoughts must obey Him.
 
Titus 3:5
King James Version (KJV)
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 
I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
 
We are saved by grace and nothing else.......But we cannot live as sinners after we have been saved. We may not be perfect in all our ways but with continuous repentance God will work with us... However, if we continue to choose to sin and not allow God to work in us we will become what God described in Romans dogs that return to their vomit.

But God is just.
Someone could give their life to Christ ; backslide; loose their salvation
someone could give their life to Christ be delivered from all sin, but struggle with some; but desperately praying and asking God for help to be the person God wants Him to be
Those are two different heart conditions; and there is where we cant fool God
 
Gal 6:7-10
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Salvation is not a license to sin
 
Romans 6:15-16
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?



We have the power of choice even after salvation. Its the same principle as in the beginning.
Adam and Eve never knew sin, but they had choice; through the blood of Jesus we become like Adam and Eve without sin; but....we still have choice
The same effort Eve was suppose to spend when faced with temptation is the same effort we have to spend when faced with temptation
 
jandian said:
Romans 6:15-16
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?



We have the power of choice even after salvation. Its the same principle as in the beginning.
Adam and Eve never knew sin, but they had choice; through the blood of Jesus we become like Adam and Eve without sin; but....we still have choice
The same effort Eve was suppose to spend when faced with temptation is the same effort we have to spend when faced with temptation
Click to expand...
I agree... but what is the POWER? What is "OBEYING the TRUTH" -- the thing which the Galatians did NOT do?

Abiding said:
Titus 3:5
King James Version (KJV)
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Click to expand...
Re: the first post answers this. Initial salvation isn't ultimate salvation -- in the Day of Judgment, many who are "saved" will be destroyed, and others will be thrown in the outer darkness.

Abiding said:
I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Click to expand...
Yes, so OBEDIENCE to Jesus, KEEPING His Words inside of myself -- but, WHAT is the message I am to keep? -- is, then, salvation (this was already put forth earlier).

The question is WHAT are those words I am to keep? What would it look like in a life?
Could it be as simple as "I believe I am saved"? What does that life look like? What is the application? Am I "disobeying the Truth" (Gal.) if I believe salvation CANNOT be lost, or am I disobeying the Truth if I think salvation CAN be lost?
It is important to know, since obedience to the Truth GAINS GRACE, and disobedience to the Truth LOSES GRACE.
"By faith we have entered into this grace, wherein we stand."

What does GRACE in a life LOOK LIKE?
 
Do the people who lose their salvation lose it because they stop believing? Is it because they sin? Is sin VIA unbelief? Is sinning and unbelief two sides of the same coin?
 
Ok. I'm not sure what your are asking; but i thought I answered the question when I said it takes effort and we have choice
 
1. Salvation is TOTAL repentance of ALL sin and TOTAL submission to God's will which is made possible only through God's grace. until you have that moment in your life where nothing but doing the will of GOD is in your heart and mind. and you give up control of your life and repent of your disobedience and submit to God's will and ask for God's help then you have not experienced TRUE Repentance. you are just deceiving yourself. For you have not been given a NEW heart from GOD to know your sinful state and need of a savior.

Until you confess that Jesus died for your sins and rose again as YOUR Lord and Savior, you do not have Salvation for you have not CONFESS the Truth.

Until you God speaks in your heart "you are my child" and the Holy Spirit is your eternal companion, Teacher, Intercessor, and Light then you have not been saved. for you have NOT experienced the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Salvation is NOT through works but through the grace of God. It is a thing God does in the lives of each of His children and it would take a few pages to go into it all. Each journey is different and each person is wonderfully and uniquely made and saved for the good works God created them for.

However it is NOT the good works that saves but JESUS Christ who is Lord and Savior. Works do nothing except magnify God's holy Name. it is done out of LOVE not fear of losing ones salvation.

If anything tempts you to do anything that is not with a pure heart of LOVE and JOY then you should stop and pray before proceeding. For GOD does NOT use FEAR or Worry or Pride to motivate but the FLESH does.

Christians can NOT be demon possessed but the strongholds their sin leaves must needs be torn down or their habits and thought patterns will continue to war against the Knowledge of God and they will continue to be tempted but GOd gave them power to OVERCOME those temptation through His holy word (sword of the spirit) and Prayer. He tells us to STAND FIRM and the Devil will flee. We should stand in our assurance of Salvation through Jesus who places the helmet firmly on our heads. The breastplate of Righteousness, not our own but the imputed righteousness of JESUS CHRIST, the gospel of peace shodded to our feet and the belt of truth girdled on to DEFEND against the fiery darts of the Enemy with our SHIELD of Faith in the PROMISE of JESUS that if we but BELIEVE in Him, we will be saved.
 
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