Did Those Who Were Never of The Elect Ever Have Free-Will?

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Hakawaka

Hakawaka

Active member
#21
Jul 1, 2021
307
157
43
#21
Will the real elect please stand up? The Bible does talk about election and the elect of God but I think that putting too much emphasis on being "chosen" may turn you into the "chosen frozen" so to speak. Saul was chosen to be king, but he disobeyed the Lord and the Lord repented of making him king, didnt work out for Saul.

I believe the Bible teaches everyone has a free will to choose something:

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Deut 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
 
P

Pasifika

Member
#22
Jun 18, 2024
45
5
8
#22
MerSee said:
John 5:26-30
26 For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given the Son also to have life in himself: 27 And he hath given him power to do judgment, because he is the Son of man. 28 Wonder not at this; for the hour cometh, wherein all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God. 29 And they that have done good things, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. 30 I cannot of myself do any thing. As I hear, so I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Click to expand...
Those who are not of the elect have free will, but it's not necessarily God's will...Those who are of the elect are chosen based on God's will Not their own will..(men's will and God's will)..
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#23
Jul 3, 2015
59,813
29,192
113
#23
Pasifika said:
Those who are not of the elect have free will, but it's not necessarily God's will...Those who
are of the elect are chosen based on God's will Not their own will..(men's will and God's will)..
Click to expand...

Welcome!
:) updated 2024-06
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
#26
Feb 22, 2021
3,197
1,601
113
Midwest
#26
Pasifika said:
Those who are not of the elect have free will, but it's not necessarily God's will...Those who are of the elect are chosen based on God's will Not their own will..(men's will and God's will)..
Click to expand...
Precious friend, better said would be:

All mankind have "free will" to choose God's Will for themselves which,
when they do choose, ends up as:

"pleasure in righteous" ( the elect Freely chose, And God Chose us,
based on His Foreknowledge - Romans 8:29 AV ), because, after God's
Great GRACE Departure of The Body Of Christ, Then referring to the
non-elect, with their "free will", [ And God Clarifying Twice! ],

they Freely chose:

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall​
consume with The Spirit Of His Mouth, and shall destroy with​
The Brightness Of His Coming: Even him, whose coming is​
after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying​
wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in​
them that perish;​
​
because they received not The Love Of The Truth, that they might​
be Saved. And for this cause God Shall Send them strong delusion,​
that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned​
who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."​
(2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 AV)​

Thus, "not receiving, not believing, and having pleasure in unrighteousness"
=
[ a Triple effect of ] Freely choosing their own condemnation, Correct?

Very sad indeed.

Amen.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#27
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
113
#27
Deuteronomy said:
Hello again @MerSee, I suppose (since we are already at it) that I should also ask you about life in Heaven and/or on the New Earth in the eternity to come. We will all be like God when we are there in the sense that we will never sin, or even have the desire to sin, and if so, how can that be :unsure: Will God need to take away the freedom that He gave us to choose between good and evil, or will we always choose to do that which is right/good for a different reason :unsure:

Finally, what about God Himself? He never sins, nor can He even be tempted to sin .. e.g. James 1:13. How is that possible? With those things in mind, here is my final (crazy) question of the night, does God have free will, or does He not :unsure:

Thanks again :giggle:

~David
Click to expand...
perhaps if it is restated:

must one be capable of evil, in order to be free?

​
:coffee::unsure:
​
 
P

Pasifika

Member
#28
Jun 18, 2024
45
5
8
#28
GRACE_ambassador said:
Precious friend, better said would be:

All mankind have "free will" to choose God's Will for themselves which,
when they do choose, ends up as:

"pleasure in righteous" ( the elect Freely chose, And God Chose us,
based on His Foreknowledge - Romans 8:29 AV ), because, after God's
Great GRACE Departure of The Body Of Christ, Then referring to the
non-elect, with their "free will", [ And God Clarifying Twice! ],

they Freely chose:

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall​
consume with The Spirit Of His Mouth, and shall destroy with​
The Brightness Of His Coming: Even him, whose coming is​
after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying​
wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in​
them that perish;​
​
because they received not The Love Of The Truth, that they might​
be Saved. And for this cause God Shall Send them strong delusion,​
that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned​
who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."​
(2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 AV)​

Thus, "not receiving, not believing, and having pleasure in unrighteousness"
=
[ a Triple effect of ] Freely choosing their own condemnation, Correct?

Very sad indeed.

Amen.
Click to expand...
Hi @GRACE_ambassador, yes I agree all mankind have free will to choose God's will. But it's up to God to choose from mankind whose to know His Will..John 1:12,13. Blessings
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#29
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
113
#29
Pasifika said:
Hi @GRACE_ambassador, yes I agree all mankind have free will to choose God's will. But it's up to God to choose from mankind whose to know His Will..John 1:12,13. Blessings
Click to expand...
So then if God does not choose you to know His will you then go to hell?
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#32
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
113
#32
Pasifika said:
Yes absolutely...it's His choice
Click to expand...
Whose choice? God's kingdom is established on righteousness, how is it righteous if you go to hell because that was God's choice and not yours?
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#33
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
113
#33
Nehemiah6 said:
TOTALLY FALSE. God wants absolutely no one in Hell, which was created for the devil and his angels. Evidently, you missed that "memo".
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Good point, there doctrine is a direct contradiction of God sending His son that all might be saved and Paul saying that God desires all men to be saved.
 
P

Pasifika

Member
#34
Jun 18, 2024
45
5
8
#34
H
Nehemiah6 said:
TOTALLY FALSE. God wants absolutely no one in Hell, which was created for the devil and his angels. Evidently, you missed that "memo".
Click to expand...
Hi, if God wants absolutely no one in Hell then there should be no one will end up in hell...Romans 9:22-24
 
P

Pasifika

Member
#35
Jun 18, 2024
45
5
8
#35
ZNP said:
Whose choice? God's kingdom is established on righteousness, how is it righteous if you go to hell because that was God's choice and not yours?
Click to expand...
Hi, we end up in "hell" not because of God's choice but "ours". But the choice to be saved from the judgement of those in hell is solely God..Romans 9:13-15
So, if God did not choose me to be save then I'll end up in hell..
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#36
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#36
Pasifika said:
Hi, if God wants absolutely no one in Hell then there should be no one will end up in hell...Romans 9:22-24
Click to expand...
Very faulty reasoning. Evidently you need to study more.
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#37
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
113
#37
Pasifika said:
Hi, we end up in "hell" not because of God's choice but "ours". But the choice to be saved from the judgement of those in hell is solely God..Romans 9:13-15
So, if God did not choose me to be save then I'll end up in hell..
Click to expand...
That is gobbledegook. It is my choice but in reality it is God's choice.

People go to hell because they reject the salvation that the Lord has wrought. He paid the price for everyone and anyone who would choose that salvation God will be obligated by righteousness to honor the price paid by Jesus to redeem them.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#38
Sep 2, 2020
13,885
5,630
113
#38
posthuman said:
my will was not truly free until Christ set me free :)
Click to expand...
“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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