Did Those Who Were Never of The Elect Ever Have Free-Will?

Hakawaka · Jul 7, 2024

Will the real elect please stand up? The Bible does talk about election and the elect of God but I think that putting too much emphasis on being "chosen" may turn you into the "chosen frozen" so to speak. Saul was chosen to be king, but he disobeyed the Lord and the Lord repented of making him king, didnt work out for Saul.

I believe the Bible teaches everyone has a free will to choose something:

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Deut 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Pasifika · Jul 7, 2024

MerSee said:

Those who are not of the elect have free will, but it's not necessarily God's will...Those who are of the elect are chosen based on God's will Not their own will..(men's will and God's will)..

Magenta · Jul 7, 2024

Pasifika said:

Welcome!

updated 2024-06

Pasifika · Jul 7, 2024

Magenta said:

Thank you @Magenta for welcoming me into this forum. Hope to find good friends for friendly discussion..Blessings

Magenta · Jul 7, 2024

Pasifika said:

You Are Welcome! God Bless You

GRACE_ambassador · Jul 7, 2024

Pasifika said:

Precious friend, better said would be:

All mankind have "free will" to choose God's Will for themselves which,
when they do choose, ends up as:

"pleasure in righteous" ( the elect Freely chose, And God Chose us,
based on His Foreknowledge - Romans 8:29 AV ), because, after God's
Great GRACE Departure of The Body Of Christ, Then referring to the
non-elect, with their "free will", [ And God Clarifying Twice! ],

they Freely chose:

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall

consume with The Spirit Of His Mouth, and shall destroy with

The Brightness Of His Coming: Even him, whose coming is

after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying

wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in

them that perish;

because they received not The Love Of The Truth, that they might

be Saved. And for this cause God Shall Send them strong delusion,

that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned

who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

(2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 AV)

Thus, "not receiving, not believing, and having pleasure in unrighteousness"
=
[ a Triple effect of ] Freely choosing their own condemnation, Correct?

Very sad indeed.

Amen.

posthuman · Jul 7, 2024

Deuteronomy said:

Hello again @MerSee, I suppose (since we are already at it) that I should also ask you about life in Heaven and/or on the New Earth in the eternity to come. We will all be like God when we are there in the sense that we will never sin, or even have the desire to sin, and if so, how can that be

Will God need to take away the freedom that He gave us to choose between good and evil, or will we always choose to do that which is right/good for a different reason

Finally, what about God Himself? He never sins, nor can He even be tempted to sin .. e.g. James 1:13. How is that possible? With those things in mind, here is my final (crazy) question of the night, does God have free will, or does He not

Thanks again

~David

perhaps if it is restated:

must one be capable of evil, in order to be free?

Pasifika · Jul 7, 2024

GRACE_ambassador said:

Precious friend, better said would be:

All mankind have "free will" to choose God's Will for themselves which,
when they do choose, ends up as:

"pleasure in righteous" ( the elect Freely chose, And God Chose us,
based on His Foreknowledge - Romans 8:29 AV ), because, after God's
Great GRACE Departure of The Body Of Christ, Then referring to the
non-elect, with their "free will", [ And God Clarifying Twice! ],

they Freely chose:

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall

consume with The Spirit Of His Mouth, and shall destroy with

The Brightness Of His Coming: Even him, whose coming is

after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying

wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in

them that perish;

because they received not The Love Of The Truth, that they might

be Saved. And for this cause God Shall Send them strong delusion,

that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned

who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

(2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 AV)

Thus, "not receiving, not believing, and having pleasure in unrighteousness"
=
[ a Triple effect of ] Freely choosing their own condemnation, Correct?

Very sad indeed.

Amen.

Hi @GRACE_ambassador, yes I agree all mankind have free will to choose God's will. But it's up to God to choose from mankind whose to know His Will..John 1:12,13. Blessings

ZNP · Jul 7, 2024

Pasifika said:

So then if God does not choose you to know His will you then go to hell?

Pasifika · Jul 7, 2024

ZNP said:

Yes absolutely...it's His choice

Nehemiah6 · Jul 7, 2024

Pasifika said:

TOTALLY FALSE. God wants absolutely no one in Hell, which was created for the devil and his angels. Evidently, you missed that "memo".

ZNP · Jul 7, 2024

Pasifika said:

Whose choice? God's kingdom is established on righteousness, how is it righteous if you go to hell because that was God's choice and not yours?

ZNP · Jul 7, 2024

Nehemiah6 said:

Good point, there doctrine is a direct contradiction of God sending His son that all might be saved and Paul saying that God desires all men to be saved.

Pasifika · Jul 7, 2024

H

Nehemiah6 said:

Hi, if God wants absolutely no one in Hell then there should be no one will end up in hell...Romans 9:22-24

Pasifika · Jul 7, 2024

ZNP said:

Hi, we end up in "hell" not because of God's choice but "ours". But the choice to be saved from the judgement of those in hell is solely God..Romans 9:13-15
So, if God did not choose me to be save then I'll end up in hell..

Nehemiah6 · Jul 7, 2024

Pasifika said:

Very faulty reasoning. Evidently you need to study more.

ZNP · Jul 7, 2024

Pasifika said:

That is gobbledegook. It is my choice but in reality it is God's choice.

People go to hell because they reject the salvation that the Lord has wrought. He paid the price for everyone and anyone who would choose that salvation God will be obligated by righteousness to honor the price paid by Jesus to redeem them.

Pilgrimshope · Jul 7, 2024

posthuman said:

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Pasifika · Jul 7, 2024

Nehemiah6 said:

any comment on the scripture verse quoted? Romans 9:22-24?

Nehemiah6 · Jul 7, 2024

Pasifika said:

No need. Go and study John chapter 3 and the words of Christ Himself.

Did Those Who Were Never of The Elect Ever Have Free-Will?

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