Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,278
246
63
But the way you use it is incorrect. It's only found in the Mikra and literally means LORD GOD.
And that's how the various bible language scholars us it! That is the correct literal rendering. But it doesn't change the fact that God IS indeed the high and lofty and exalted whose NAME is higher than the highest heavens!
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,278
246
63
Labeling is OK. Mislabeling on the other hand is generally the problem.
What should the Doctrines of Grace be called? As far as Calvin or any other teacher is concerned, their writings are only as good as they accord with Holy Writ. All Calvin did was systematize soteriology. And I have no problem with that. Expressing truth in a carefully ordered, systematic fashion often makes it easier to study and understand.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
Just stop already.

And again you defeat the free will argument.

Dinner calls. I hope your pizza was good...
Amazes me that all of the prophecy that was fulfilled by God that you don't see God made the Pharisees kill Jesus. It was even fulfilled before the foundation of the Earth. Had they not been blinded to the truth do you sincerely think they would not have accepted Jesus like everyone else did?

And God fulfilling His Plan to kill Jesus has no bearing on Free Will whatsoever.

You deny Free Will as your own belief so anything anyone says would not be accepted by you.


Pizza is very good and thank you!
Enjoy your Dinner!
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
And that's how the various bible language scholars us it! That is the correct literal rendering. But it doesn't change the fact that God IS indeed the high and lofty and exalted whose NAME is higher than the highest heavens!
It's not even a word in the Bible so who cares how someone uses it. The word literally does not exist in the Bible.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,893
6,488
113
62
What should the Doctrines of Grace be called? As far as Calvin or any other teacher is concerned, their writings are only as good as they accord with Holy Writ. All Calvin did was systematize soteriology. And I have no problem with that. Expressing truth in a carefully ordered, systematic fashion often makes it easier to study and understand.
I could care less what people call things. My initial comment wasn't directed towards you but merely to point out that it's disingenuous to tell others not to use terms not found in the Bible while employing terms not found in the Bible.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,278
246
63
I'm discharging the bolt..... and you are holding the rod and you get the shock buddy.

All free of charge.
And a boastful, arrogant, braggart to boot. Maybe that happened to you when you got struck with a bolt...and since you survived you now think you're indestructible?
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,803
2,259
113
Amazes me that all of the prophecy that was fulfilled by God that you don't see God made the Pharisees kill Jesus. It was even fulfilled before the foundation of the Earth. Had they not been blinded to the truth do you sincerely think they would not have accepted Jesus like everyone else did?

And God fulfilling His Plan to kill Jesus has no bearing on Free Will whatsoever.

You deny Free Will as your own belief so anything anyone says would not be accepted by you.


Pizza is very good and thank you!
Enjoy your Dinner!
It does not have to be either/or, agree.
Sometimes God intervenes, sometimes He does not ...He is sovereign after all!
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,893
6,488
113
62
Amazes me that all of the prophecy that was fulfilled by God that you don't see God made the Pharisees kill Jesus. It was even fulfilled before the foundation of the Earth. Had they not been blinded to the truth do you sincerely think they would not have accepted Jesus like everyone else did?

And God fulfilling His Plan to kill Jesus has no bearing on Free Will whatsoever.

You deny Free Will as your own belief so anything anyone says would not be accepted by you.


Pizza is very good and thank you!
Enjoy your Dinner!
God didn't respect the freewill of the Pharisees? He forced them to kill Jesus?
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
God didn't respect the freewill of the Pharisees? He forced them to kill Jesus?
Nothing to do with Free Will but about fulfilling this specific Prophecy.

Do you think had God not blinded and deafened the Pharisees they would have otherwise killed Jesus?

They had no reason to if they were not blinded and deafened.
 

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
796
119
43
The Concept that God is All Powerful is yes. But the concept of God choosing who goes to Heaven and to Hell is not.
Ephesians 1:4
As he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and unspotted in his sight in charity.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
All throughout the entire Old Testament God did not deter the Leaders in any way. But the moment Jesus arrives and the Law was to end all of a sudden the Leaders now become blinded and deafened.

These people in any other time would be looking for the Messiah. But during Jesus time they some how were not.

And this is just happening by chance?

Or by God?
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
Ephesians 1:4
As he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and unspotted in his sight in charity.
It's about Jesus. How are we Holy and Unspotted?

Jesus.

The verse explains we are this because of Jesus.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,278
246
63
I get it. You have no answer. God did not command anyone to kill Jesus.
Still, He knew it would happen. Jesus knew it would happen, too.
They're alluding to this passage most likely:

Acts 4:23-31
23 On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. "Sovereign Lord," they said, "you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. 25 You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David:

"'Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the Lord
and against his Anointed One.'

27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen. 29 Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. 30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."

31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

NIV

And from what v. 31 says, I have to infer that God was pleased with their biblically-oriented prayer.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,278
246
63
You have just wiped out the whole argument of free will. Not that there was any legitimacy to it in the first place.

But this what you are saying is no better than the Calvinist idea that God ordains evil, and makes men carry it out.

Forces men to evil, fashions them for destruction, and then punishes them forever after for doing what He willed.
Sorry, sis, but that is a gross mischaracterization of Calvinism. You might want to read that A.W. Pink article I beamed up in my 7887 in which the author addresses these tough issues.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,278
246
63
Amazes me that all of the prophecy that was fulfilled by God that you don't see God made the Pharisees kill Jesus. It was even fulfilled before the foundation of the Earth. Had they not been blinded to the truth do you sincerely think they would not have accepted Jesus like everyone else did?

And God fulfilling His Plan to kill Jesus has no bearing on Free Will whatsoever.

You deny Free Will as your own belief so anything anyone says would not be accepted by you.


Pizza is very good and thank you!
Enjoy your Dinner!
Why? How weren't the free wills of the religious leaders violated? And if you cannot explain this adequately, then you are talking out of both sides of your mouth all at once and simultaneously.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,893
6,488
113
62
Nothing to do with Free Will but about fulfilling this specific Prophecy.

Do you think had God not blinded and deafened the Pharisees they would have otherwise killed Jesus?

They had no reason to if they were not blinded and deafened.
You just said God made them do it. They had no choice according to you. That has everything to do with freewill.
So did God kidnap their will?