Was Judas Iscariot saved?

[MikeIsraelite72]

Im not into the LGBT movement at all, nor do I believe the Bible is racist, nor am I in a 501c church, I dont even live in America.

Good try. I figured calvinism from the fact that you teach only the israelites will be saved. Which obviously goes against the whole great commission.

You just said that:
You definitely have a different Father than the one described in the Bible!

“The LORD has made everything for His purpose—
even the wicked for the day of destruction”
Proverbs 16:4

“You who have forsaken Me,” declares the Lord,You keep going backward.
So I will stretch out My hand against you and destroy you;
I am tired of relenting!
Jerrmiah 15:6

“The statutes of Omri
And all the works of the house of Ahab are observed;
And in their devices you walk.
Therefore I will give you up for destruction
And your inhabitants for derision,
And you will bear the reproach of My people.”
Micah 16:6

i still find your cry of “racism” over the facts i posted to edify my brethren as childish and of a “victimhood” mentality, you need to grow up my brother because the time is short , it is a device of the devil to scream “racism” at facts that you don’t like to hear

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

Interesting, Who did Jesus come to earth to save
Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luke 5:32
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Just saying God love us all
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Do you think God died for Judas too, maybe, god knows and God I trust to do whatever God chooses not I anymore

i agree with your post👍🏻 the only point i was trying to make is regarding ALL the children of Esau, of which Judas was, an edomite. …

Jesus called many sinners to repentence yet he did not call them “devils” he called Judas a devil because the edomite is to be destroyed, Jesus said of them “you do not hear my voice because you are not my sheep” he spoke intentionally by pointing out their inability to hear his speech is because they are not his sheep in the first place. he could have said out the other way sround leaving an option that one day they might hear his voice

 

[homwardbound]

I still don't see scripture that says Satan has authority over death and hell. Do you have any that show this?

Thank You, I am corrected on this about Evil, all it has is to get fear in people and people use this fear also to get to mothers also.
No, I actually do not read anything, where Satan was ever given the authority. yet it seems satan has authority, in misleading many. Lost it in the risen Son FEAR= False evidence appearing real.
And has deceived many.
Fear, to us the people is the major weapon, used on us by thought(s), which include, guilt and pride, placed in our thought(s). Still out and about as a roaring lion or is Satan defeated?

Until Satan is condemned and thrown into the pit forever, he spends his time between heaven (Job 1:6–12) and earth (1 Peter 5:8). He will not always have freedom of movement, and he knows it. “Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short” (Revelation 12:12).

In Luke 10:18 Jesus says, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” The context of these words is the return of the 70 (or 72) disciples that Jesus had sent out to evangelize and prepare His way to Jerusalem (see verse 1). When the 70 return and give their report, they are joyful and a little surprised that “even the demons submit to us in your name” (verse 17). Jesus’ first words in reply are, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (verse 18).

In referencing Satan’s fall from heaven, Jesus most likely had in mind Isaiah 14:12, “How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” The fall of Satan that Jesus saw happened after Lucifer’s sin, before Adam and Eve’s temptation in the Garden of Eden. In his pride, Lucifer had lifted himself up, but God had cast him down out of his original place in heaven (although he retains a limited access to heaven for now, according to Job 1:6). Jesus’ statement in Luke 10:18 speaks of Jesus’ pre-existence and the Lord’s defeat over the power of Satan in a general sense.

However. Jesus the Messiah won for us to be new in love and mercy to all. Without fear, who hear the call of God for them in the risen Son to them, who have accepted reconciliation through Son for them, are born again (New) by God and can rest from flesh work(s) to go the done work of Son for others to see and choose belief or not conciously

Love and mercy from God casts out all fear of, includes getting beaten up, ridiculed, told they are wrong, will not fight back in flesh and blood, at least learn this truth, and be in it all the way, in trust to learn from any and all mistakes
I hope for all, not wanting anyone to perish, so God waits patiently for each person to choose to believe God or not in his love and mercy for them too.

 

[homwardbound]

What in this verse shows authority over death and hell?

Thanks for your question, satan has never had control only has wanted it, thank you
Satan had it, not given it, has it in the minds and thoughts of people, yet does not have it. By Adam the first that ate from that tree of knowledge, fear entered and by fear satan has got control through thought(s)
Jesus revoked it in his being risen

 

[Cameron143]

Thank You, I am corrected on this about Evil, all it has is to get fear in people and people use this fear also to get to mothers also.
No, I actually do not read anything, where Satan was ever given the authority. yet it seems satan has authority, in misleading many. Lost it in the risen Son FEAR= False evidence appearing real.
And has deceived many.
Fear, to us the people is the major weapon, used on us by thought(s), which include, guilt and pride, placed in our thought(s). Still out and about as a roaring lion or is Satan defeated?

Until Satan is condemned and thrown into the pit forever, he spends his time between heaven (Job 1:6–12) and earth (1 Peter 5:8). He will not always have freedom of movement, and he knows it. “Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short” (Revelation 12:12).

In Luke 10:18 Jesus says, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” The context of these words is the return of the 70 (or 72) disciples that Jesus had sent out to evangelize and prepare His way to Jerusalem (see verse 1). When the 70 return and give their report, they are joyful and a little surprised that “even the demons submit to us in your name” (verse 17). Jesus’ first words in reply are, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (verse 18).

In referencing Satan’s fall from heaven, Jesus most likely had in mind Isaiah 14:12, “How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” The fall of Satan that Jesus saw happened after Lucifer’s sin, before Adam and Eve’s temptation in the Garden of Eden. In his pride, Lucifer had lifted himself up, but God had cast him down out of his original place in heaven (although he retains a limited access to heaven for now, according to Job 1:6). Jesus’ statement in Luke 10:18 speaks of Jesus’ pre-existence and the Lord’s defeat over the power of Satan in a general sense.

However. Jesus the Messiah won for us to be new in love and mercy to all. Without fear, who hear the call of God for them in the risen Son to them, who have accepted reconciliation through Son for them, are born again (New) by God and can rest from flesh work(s) to go the done work of Son for others to see and choose belief or not conciously

Love and mercy from God casts out all fear of, includes getting beaten up, ridiculed, told they are wrong, will not fight back in flesh and blood, at least learn this truth, and be in it all the way, in trust to learn from any and all mistakes
I hope for all, not wanting anyone to perish, so God waits patiently for each person to choose to believe God or not in his love and mercy for them too.

I agree that Satan has great power and has employed that power to the detriment of so many. And God has allowed this. But if God authorized this, then Satan didn't sin. He would simply be carrying out God's command.

 

[homwardbound]

i agree with your post👍🏻 the only point i was trying to make is regarding ALL the children of Esau, of which Judas was, an edomite. …

Jesus called many sinners to repentence yet he did not call them “devils” he called Judas a devil because the edomite is to be destroyed, Jesus said of them “you do not hear my voice because you are not my sheep” he spoke intentionally by pointing out their inability to hear his speech is because they are not his sheep in the first place. he could have said out the other way sround leaving an option that one day they might hear his voice

thanks for the view you see. Yet, we will all one day see, therefore I stand in belief, deeper than reconciliation given me and all others also 2 Cor 5:17-20. All are reconciled as forgiven by Son for them, on that cross death.
No life is in the death, that be the reconciliation for all to believe God Father of the risen Son for them and then be new as born again by God. Hoping for all to come to life, first born birth is not true life. Yet it is trying to be new life of it's own selfishness Luke 18:9-14
Hoping all to go to God personally and ask for what this means and see and be born new, and quit playing Church anymore
Believe, receive, and be new in God for you and love in mercy and truth to all others too.
Is, that not the call from our Lord unto his Lord, now our Lord? in the risen Son, yes it is, per John 20, as he told Mary, I go to my Father, now your Father also.

 

[homwardbound]

I agree that Satan has great power and has employed that power to the detriment of so many. And God has allowed this. But if God authorized this, then Satan didn't sin. He would simply be carrying out God's command.

that is messing in the cross hairs of the mysteries of God, no thanks, not going there

 

[homwardbound]

I agree that Satan has great power and has employed that power to the detriment of so many. And God has allowed this. But if God authorized this, then Satan didn't sin. He would simply be carrying out God's command.

okay, seeing this that way. The Corinthians got messed up in their thoughts of being reconciled as forgiven (No true repentance, no born again yet then) So the Corinthian letters got written to them
They did whatever they desired without thought of any compassion for others. Drank up all the wine, ate all the food without care for others in need for food. Had sex with whoever they wanted to have sex. Having the thought, Hey I have not sinned since I am forgiven by God (Sin is "Unbelief" to God personally) through Son. so they did not see salvation in love and mercy for them. They took it for granted and used it to their advantage.
I see it going on to this day, the misusing of Grace given by God to the people. Some people have cancer, others have infections minor ones. Those having cancer, are diagnosed with cancer, and these know they have it and need chemo therapy. But the Pharmacist (Preacher) gives the wrong prescription to the wrong people. Those with Cancer get a pill to take and go on in their sin, thinking they are cured and continue to harm others without a second thought over it, being forgiven. Thinking they r good with God since are forgiven by God. Not true!
As the ones that needed the pill got the Chemo therapy, and put under Law, being choked to death. Which turns out for thier good in the long run, being made aware, to see deeply what evil is and does, once delivered from under Law to upholding Law. One stands in the risen Son and, never of any self works. at least this is who I am made to be in trust to God to work it all out through me. In hope for all

 

[tourist]

I agree that Satan has great power and has employed that power to the detriment of so many. And God has allowed this. But if God authorized this, then Satan didn't sin. He would simply be carrying out God's command.

God may allow the great power but does not condone it.

 

[Cameron143]

God may allow the great power but does not condone it.

I agree, and that's my point. After His resurrection Jesus says in Revelation that He has the keys to death and hell. Keys represent control and authority. In Matthew 28, He says all authority has been given to Him. We often assume because Satan has been allotted and allowed to use much power that he did so with authority and therefore must have had the authority over death and hell. This was never so. Even before the cross Jesus said not to fear the one who can kill you, but instead the one who can destroy the soul in hell. This description doesn't apply to Satan. And neither could Satan bestow on Jesus any authority. It had to come from God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Judas Iscariot maybe the most despised person in human history. Did the New Testament writers have such a disdain for him that they always listed him last when naming the disciples? In many of the early century writings about Judas, shows a very high level of contempt for him. Church leaders and biblical scholars have labeled him some sort of misfit, who was a living definition of disaster. Judas' brand is "betrayal," and will always be thought as such for the rest of human history. Was he saved?
There is no doubt God had a righteous reason for all that he did with reference to Judas, but it isn't quite revealed to us in scripture. In John 17:12, Judas Iscariot is referred to as the "son of perdition," which means, man doomed to destruction. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 also mentions the "son of perdition" but in context its talking about the antichrist. The fact that Judas is mentioned by Jesus as the "son of perdition" and that the antichrist is mentioned in the same manner, speaks volumes to the heart of Judas.

John 6:70 Jesus said, "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?" Our Lord Jesus called Judas a devil. The word is not "demon" but "devil"(diabolos). Apart from Satan, Judas is the only one to have this term applied to him in scripture.

Acts 2:23 "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain." Judas was part of this "counsel" and "wicked hands." Its obvious before Jesus was captured that Judas' heart was wicked, but what about afterwards? Did Judas repent?

Matthew 27:3-5 "Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, saying I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood, and they said, what is that to us? See thou to that. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself."

Did Judas repent and become a believer? The word "repented" in the verse above, means remorseful, from the Greek word "metameleoma", which means "to regret". So this is different from repentance to salvation. Judas may have regretted what he did to Jesus, but he did not truly repent. Judas betrays innocent blood for money, feel guilty, returns the money, and commits suicide. These could be actions of a guilty conscience, not a forgiven and regenerate one.

Judas followed the same Jesus as the other disciples. For three years he saw the same miracles, heard the same teachings, and was a part of the same ministries as all the others. Yet he did not become what the other disciples became. Judas looks as though he became the very opposite. He became Satan's tool. Judas is called the "son of perdition," which implies that of a person that is in an unredeemable state. Forgiveness may not have been planned for Judas and that Jesus knew his heart beforehand. Judas said, "I have sinned. I have betrayed the innocent blood." Many claim by this statement that Judas repented and believed, therefore he was saved. But did he really know Jesus? Could Judas be one of those that comes to Jesus at judgement and Jesus says, "I never knew you: depart from me." In Acts 1:25 when Judas fell, "might go to his own place." Where is his own place? Is it separated from the saved?

Whatever Judas' character was at the beginning of Jesus' ministry gradually became a wicked man who betrayed Jesus. Greed, ambition, and worldliness most likely crept into his heart, and became blinded of Jesus' Deity. Judas could be the greatest example of lost opportunity.

Judas was lost

“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Magenta]

I think speculating on the mind/heart of Judas, as if we knew his final thoughts, as he took
his last breathe, is a waste of time and a bit presumptuous on the part of mere mortals.

Jesus was no mere mortal. I believe what Jesus said over your inability to understand His meaning.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus was no mere mortal.

I don't believe Judas was saved. My point, I think, because I haven't been keeping up with the thread, would be that basing a belief on what we think was going on with Judas shortly before he died is speculation. But I don't care enough about the topic to go back and check.

 

[Magenta]

I don't believe Judas was saved. My point, I think, because I haven't been keeping up with the thread, would be that basing a belief on what we think was going on with Judas shortly before he died is speculation. But I don't care enough about the topic to go back and check.

Jesus called Judas the son of perdition, or doomed to destruction. It is hardly speculating to infer from that
that there was no chance of Judas being saved, according to the very words of Jesus, Who would know.
Saying we cannot know is no different than saying we can't believe Jesus.
People waffle around on these issues, but I see no need for it.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus called Judas the son of perdition, or doomed to destruction. It is hardly speculating to infer from that
that there was no chance of Judas being saved, according to the very words of Jesus, Who would know.
Saying we cannot know is no different than saying we can't believe Jesus.
People waffle around on these issues, but I see no need for it.

I don't disagree. But as I don't know the context of my comments or what it was in response to. Would it help if I said I unequivocally don't believe Judas was saved?

 

[Magenta]

I don't disagree. But as I don't know the context of my comments or what it was in
response to. Would it help if I said I unequivocally don't believe Judas was saved?

Eh? If you do not know what is going on, what hope do I have? .

 

[Cameron143]

Eh? If you do not know what is going on, what hope do I have? .

Where was the quote from? I just went back through the thread and couldn't find it.

 

[maxwel]

"Son of perdition" is pretty strong language.
Based on the New Testament writings, I can't see any way to mentally extricate him from damnation.
But I don't think that's a news flash.


You guys have a great week.

.

 

[HeIsHere]

Is Saul Alinsky here?

 

[HeIsHere]

"Son of perdition" is pretty strong language.
Based on the New Testament writings, I can't see any way to mentally extricate him from damnation.
But I don't think that's a news flash.


You guys have a great week.

.

The term “perdition” refers to “loss of well being”, not hell or eternal loss of well being:
"684 /apṓleia (“perdition”) does not imply “annihilation” (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, “cut off”) but instead “loss of well-being” rather than being(Vine’s Expository Dictionary)

idiomatic expressions.... go to Italy, Greece and other Mediterranean countries and you may learn about it.