Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
Oh...okay I see what you're saying. You posted a collage of verses.
Yes, that one panel has numerous verses concerning death on it, whereas others just have one or two verses on them...
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
My pleasure, selahsays. If it's ok with you, I'll get back to you tomorrow as I want to fully consider your post before I do- thx Roger
That would be just fine with me. :)

Here’s a little quote from C. H. Hadden.
“The system of truth revealed in the Scriptures is not simply one straight line, but two; and no man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once…..I see, in one place, God in providence presiding over all, and yet I see, and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions, in a great measure, to his own free will. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act that there was no control of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to atheism; and if, on the other hand, I should declare that God so over-rules all things that man is not free enough to be responsible, I should be driven at once into antimonianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and yet that man is responsible, are two facts that few cansee clearly. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory, but they are not. The fault is in our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other…..They are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the human mind which pursues them farthest will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
That does not answer the question, really. How or where do you see any force applied in waking up as a believer?
To actually be awakened by the Lord is the greatest gift one could ever hope for in this physical life. For when a person is truly awakened, there is no desire to fall asleep, for we understand what it means . . . going back to the enslavement of the Devil, which is death. Furthermore, when a person has experienced Spiritual death in a physical way, there is no chance they will ever, ever go back to Satan's captivity, even if they could.

2 Corinthians 5:11 NKJV - "Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences."

The Terror of the Lord is simply . . . just . . . the most frightening thing any human could conceive of. Words can be used to describe this terror, but human words are never enough. I wish that all people would be given this gift, for it would help them to understand the validity of the Spiritual world and the sheer reality of Satan. I also wish that more would be given a similar experience that the Apostle Paul had while on the Damascus Road. It seems that he had experienced both, which is why he was able to suggest about 18 times that if people were to follow his example, they would be like Christ.

Because Paul experienced the Spiritual world, he recognized that physical death would not stop him from Loving God as he only could. Paul had virtually no choice but to obey.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
That would be just fine with me. :)

Here’s a little quote from C. H. Hadden.
“The system of truth revealed in the Scriptures is not simply one straight line, but two; and no man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once…..I see, in one place, God in providence presiding over all, and yet I see, and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions, in a great measure, to his own free will. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act that there was no control of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to atheism; and if, on the other hand, I should declare that God so over-rules all things that man is not free enough to be responsible, I should be driven at once into antimonianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and yet that man is responsible, are two facts that few cansee clearly. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory, but they are not. The fault is in our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other…..They are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the human mind which pursues them farthest will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.
T'would have been better by far had he stuck to Scriptural truths.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113

Proverbs 9:10 plus Matthew 10:28
:)
To actually be awakened by the Lord is the greatest gift one could ever hope for in this physical life. For when a person is truly awakened, there is no desire to fall asleep, for we understand what it means . . . going back to the enslavement of the Devil, which is death. Furthermore, when a person has experienced Spiritual death in a physical way, there is no chance they will ever, ever go back to Satan's captivity, even if they could.

2 Corinthians 5:11 NKJV - "Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences."

The Terror of the Lord is simply . . . just . . . the most frightening thing any human could conceive of. Words can be used to describe this terror, but human words are never enough. I wish that all people would be given this gift, for it would help them to understand the validity of the Spiritual world and the sheer reality of Satan. I also wish that more would be given a similar experience that the Apostle Paul had while on the Damascus Road. It seems that he had experienced both, which is why he was able to suggest about 18 times that if people were to follow his example, they would be like Christ.

Because Paul experienced the Spiritual world, he recognized that physical death would not stop him from Loving God as he only could. Paul had virtually no choice but to obey.
Yes... and even Paul said, for well he knew, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:31

New International Version
It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


New Living Translation
It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


English Standard Version
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Berean Standard Bible
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Berean Literal Bible
it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


King James Bible
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


New King James Version
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


New American Standard Bible
It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


NASB 1995
It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



Proverbs 9:10
:)
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
83
I am out for coffee right now and not able to look up verses to support any thoughts I might have on what the Bible says about death, but obviously there is more than one type of death spoken of, for there is physical death and there is what we call spiritual death, and there is also the first death which all experience, and the second death which is everlasting for those who suffer it (believers escape the second death). Jesus spoke of death as sleep and some revile thinking along those lines as if Jesus was a liar. Such people mock the idea of death being likened to sleep, and claim that sleep is a metaphor for wakefulness... which is pretty strange, if you ask me.

" Born once, die twice; born twice, die once."
I was asking for "dead", since "dead in sins" is the phrase undergirding Omni-faceted Imperfection.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113

Proverbs 9:10 plus Matthew 10:28
:)

Yes... and even Paul said, for well he knew, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:31

New International Version
It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


New Living Translation
It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


English Standard Version
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Berean Standard Bible
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Berean Literal Bible
it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


King James Bible
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


New King James Version
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


New American Standard Bible
It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


NASB 1995
It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



Proverbs 9:10
:)
How did I miss these two panels? Did you add them after the fact? :D
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
How did I miss these two panels? Did you add them after the fact? :D
Yes, I put them in as edits within the 5 minute time frame .:D

Heh I added both because the one face looks so sweet and gentle and really does not convey any reason to fear...

:unsure:;):geek:

I know that fear of the Lord, of falling into the hands of the living God. Yes. I probably would not be here if I did not.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
Yes, I put them in as edits within the 5 minute time frame .:D

Heh I added both because the one face looks so sweet and gentle and really does not convey any reason to fear...

:unsure:;):geek:

I know that fear of the Lord, of falling into the hands of the living God. Yes. I probably would not be here if I did not.
Having fallen into the Holy Hands of the Living God, can you imagine ever choosing to walk away? For me, as I imagine enduring the deaths of many in the Bible, I see myself taking the torture until I died. I would rather be killed than deny even the Name of Jesus Christ.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
Having fallen into the Holy Hands of the Living God, can you imagine ever choosing to walk away? For me, as I imagine enduring the deaths of many in the Bible, I see myself taking the torture until I died. I would rather be killed than deny even the Name of Jesus Christ.
No, I cannot really imagine it, and I know, I have seen others say,
they cannot either... where/to whom is there to go?, as Peter asked.


Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?” Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would
we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that You are the Holy One of God."


Why do you always find what you are looking for in the last place you look?

Because after you find it, you stop looking!
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
No, I cannot really imagine it, and I know, I have seen others say,
they cannot either... where/to whom is there to go?, as Peter asked.


Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?” Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would
we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that You are the Holy One of God."


Why do you always find what you are looking for in the last place you look?

Because after you find it, you stop looking!
Well that was just awesome!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
Another undocumented accusation. Water, duck, back.
That you have denied going beyond what Scripture explicitly states is well documented in these pages.
You asked me to point out where you do this, which I have done numerous times since then, and not
once that I saw did you admit it. No, instead you made excuses for making assumptions and rationalized
reading into the text what was not there. Your quacking ad homs, deflections, and continued denials do
not eliminate your responsibility in this matter, nor do they hide your lack of integrity. Au contraire.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
83
Why is "believe in me" redundant? I mean after all....according to you Jesus must have been addressing the dumbest people on the planet, since they didn't know they were physically alive. :rolleyes:
According to your reading of me". But we know from your misreading of scripture that you would be unlikely to comprehend my posts without some distortion from LOUPI bias.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
83
That you have denied going beyond what Scripture explicitly states is well documented in these pages.
You asked me to point out where you do this, which I have done numerous times since then, and not
once that I saw did you admit it. No, instead you made excuses for making assumptions and rationalized
reading into the text what was not there. Your quacking ad homs, deflections, and continued denials do
not eliminate your responsibility in this matter, nor do they hide your lack of integrity. Au contraire.
So, I disagreed with you and justified my disagreement, and you didn't like that. Do you have any documentation to support your interpretation of events.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
That would be just fine with me. :)

Here’s a little quote from C. H. Hadden.
“The system of truth revealed in the Scriptures is not simply one straight line, but two; and no man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once…..I see, in one place, God in providence presiding over all, and yet I see, and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions, in a great measure, to his own free will. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act that there was no control of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to atheism; and if, on the other hand, I should declare that God so over-rules all things that man is not free enough to be responsible, I should be driven at once into antimonianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and yet that man is responsible, are two facts that few cansee clearly. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory, but they are not. The fault is in our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other…..They are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the human mind which pursues them farthest will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.
I mean C. H. Spurgeon :)
 

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
796
119
43
To actually be awakened by the Lord is the greatest gift one could ever hope for in this physical life. For when a person is truly awakened, there is no desire to fall asleep, for we understand what it means . . . going back to the enslavement of the Devil, which is death. Furthermore, when a person has experienced Spiritual death in a physical way, there is no chance they will ever, ever go back to Satan's captivity, even if they could.

2 Corinthians 5:11 NKJV - "Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences."

The Terror of the Lord is simply . . . just . . . the most frightening thing any human could conceive of. Words can be used to describe this terror, but human words are never enough. I wish that all people would be given this gift, for it would help them to understand the validity of the Spiritual world and the sheer reality of Satan. I also wish that more would be given a similar experience that the Apostle Paul had while on the Damascus Road. It seems that he had experienced both, which is why he was able to suggest about 18 times that if people were to follow his example, they would be like Christ.

Because Paul experienced the Spiritual world, he recognized that physical death would not stop him from Loving God as he only could. Paul had virtually no choice but to obey.
Believing heresy is enslavement/bondage to the Devil.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
Believing heresy is enslavement/bondage to the Devil.
I think I understand what you mean, however, don't all of us believe at least some things that are not true? And if our hearts are genuinely seeking the truth, how could we be condemned though we understand the core, backbone, and spine of the Bible? How can a person be condemned if they understand the terms of the Circumcision Covenant and in by doing so, have received the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
I mean C. H. Spurgeon :)
No doubt, it is difficult to fully and accurately comment on what Spurgeon is saying in this quote, but I wonder this:

If a person is born with a Sinful Nature (that must one day be replaced with the Mind of Christ), and if this Sinful Nature is what compels a person to disobey the Lord, how can they be responsible for their choices and actions? Isn't this the basis and foundation for our ability to Forgive? The Lord has shown us the easy path to Forgiveness, for what else can we expect from those who have yet to receive the Circumcision of Christ? And if a person has not been set free from this mind of Satan, we have no choice but to understand their unholy predicament, and are able to look upon them with understanding.

To fully understand the Circumcision of Christ is to LIVE in a state and condition of Forgiveness.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
No doubt, it is difficult to fully and accurately comment on what Spurgeon is saying in this quote, but I wonder this:

If a person is born with a Sinful Nature (that must one day be replaced with the Mind of Christ), and if this Sinful Nature is what compels a person to disobey the Lord, how can they be responsible for their choices and actions? Isn't this the basis and foundation for our ability to Forgive? The Lord has shown us the easy path to Forgiveness, for what else can we expect from those who have yet to receive the Circumcision of Christ? And if a person has not been set free from this mind of Satan, we have no choice but to understand their unholy predicament, and are able to look upon them with understanding.

To fully understand the Circumcision of Christ is to LIVE in a state and condition of Forgiveness.
Hey bro…I like what you’ve written here; it shows compassion. :)