Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"
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you do despite to your own Strict and Particular doctrines for when Paul wrote to the Galatians he told them they were in bondage once more. Were they therefore lost? I see many in the church in the same bondage that the Galatians were in, they's still saved. But they enjoy not the benefits of their election.
ELECTION is everything in the bible.
Election is the lost key to real spiritual revival, have you seen the children in the school yard when the Teacher has come to choose who is to participate in some activity? how they all rush and swarm "ME" they cry their hands raised "pick ME"
But the church has turned aside from election to the doctrine of men's choosings, salvation by human decision ... and nobody wants it.
ELECTION is everything in the bible.
Election is the lost key to real spiritual revival, have you seen the children in the school yard when the Teacher has come to choose who is to participate in some activity? how they all rush and swarm "ME" they cry their hands raised "pick ME"
But the church has turned aside from election to the doctrine of men's choosings, salvation by human decision ... and nobody wants it.
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no one is saved by any connection to Abraham but by the grace of God which grants faith as He did to Abraham and it is only these who are the true seed of Abraham and not those who claim to be of his flesh but die in their sin.
Rom 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
Rom 9:7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "IN ISAAC YOUR SEED SHALL BE CALLED."
Rom 9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
As long as you continue to deny the New Covenant promise given to Abraham and fulfilled in Christ to His people throughout the whole world you will remain judicially blinded from seeing the plain truth of Holy Scripture.
Gal 3:7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."
Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
God only has one wife!
Rom 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
Rom 9:7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "IN ISAAC YOUR SEED SHALL BE CALLED."
Rom 9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
As long as you continue to deny the New Covenant promise given to Abraham and fulfilled in Christ to His people throughout the whole world you will remain judicially blinded from seeing the plain truth of Holy Scripture.
Gal 3:7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."
Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
God only has one wife!
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It is because God fore determines all things that He fore knows all things.
Pro_16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the LORD.
God chose His people not after the Fall but before it and the foundation of the world.
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
All are spiritually dead in Adam, slaves to sin and Satan, his children and bearing his evil image which is why Christ said that men must be born again!
Pro_16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the LORD.
God chose His people not after the Fall but before it and the foundation of the world.
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
All are spiritually dead in Adam, slaves to sin and Satan, his children and bearing his evil image which is why Christ said that men must be born again!
I thoroughly agree with you that election is the bedrock doctrine of the Bible and most today do not fear God because Christians are too scared to offend people's so called free will. Instead of asking people whether they have chosen God, ask them if God has chosen them and watch the power of God in action!
The only people that were in bondage amongst the Galatians were those who were under the deception that the law could justify anyone. Those who die trusting in their obedience to the law are never justified by God and are proven to be false converts.
The only people that were in bondage amongst the Galatians were those who were under the deception that the law could justify anyone. Those who die trusting in their obedience to the law are never justified by God and are proven to be false converts.
A complete misunderstanding of Romans 9.
You ignored the context of Romans 9 and will pay the price for distorting the scripture.
Romans 9:30-31
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained
righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel, pursuing a law
of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.
Israel was hardened not the Gentile nations.
The promise, God's choice was centered on those that would call on His name.
By faith and not by works.
Here is your quotation.
Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to
make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
This is what Romans 9:21 states in the context of Paul's narration, shown below.
Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to
make one vessel for GENTILES and another for ISRAEL?
Your slowly killing me with your cherry picked versus that ignore the context.
What the hell do you think Paul is talking about in Romans 9,10,11?
You ignored the context of Romans 9 and will pay the price for distorting the scripture.
Romans 9:30-31
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained
righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel, pursuing a law
of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.
Israel was hardened not the Gentile nations.
The promise, God's choice was centered on those that would call on His name.
By faith and not by works.
Here is your quotation.
Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to
make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
This is what Romans 9:21 states in the context of Paul's narration, shown below.
Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to
make one vessel for GENTILES and another for ISRAEL?
Your slowly killing me with your cherry picked versus that ignore the context.
What the hell do you think Paul is talking about in Romans 9,10,11?
round and round in circles you go
It was Isaac's seed, the children of the promise who rejected Christ, their rejection of Christ is actually part of the promise itself "In you will the families of the earth bless themselves" THAT'S the promise, THAT'S the election.
How did it come to pass? by their giving Christ up to be crucified as they were appointed to do.
Their disobedience was YOUR salvation. What're you grumbling against the Jews for?
They stumbled as they were meant to do. But they have not fallen. Don't quote half scriptures at me Sunny Jim, if you want to quote their casting away then quote also their eventual acceptance. You want to talk about their demise but not their rise.
If their failure was predicted and came to pass then so will their success which is also predicted come to pass.
It was Isaac's seed, the children of the promise who rejected Christ, their rejection of Christ is actually part of the promise itself "In you will the families of the earth bless themselves" THAT'S the promise, THAT'S the election.
How did it come to pass? by their giving Christ up to be crucified as they were appointed to do.
Their disobedience was YOUR salvation. What're you grumbling against the Jews for?
They stumbled as they were meant to do. But they have not fallen. Don't quote half scriptures at me Sunny Jim, if you want to quote their casting away then quote also their eventual acceptance. You want to talk about their demise but not their rise.
If their failure was predicted and came to pass then so will their success which is also predicted come to pass.
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Your are spot on.
Romans chapter eleven explains why Israel failed and why the Gentiles succeeded.
More accurately, why Israel failed but will eventually succeed again.
There is nothing in the text that has anything to do with the church, in Romans 11.
No one reads the text itself, everyone reads theology books.
Romans chapter eleven explains why Israel failed and why the Gentiles succeeded.
More accurately, why Israel failed but will eventually succeed again.
There is nothing in the text that has anything to do with the church, in Romans 11.
No one reads the text itself, everyone reads theology books.
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Not sure I understand your post.
You replied to my previous post I assume.
Here is what you said.
God indeed has not rejected His people from the Old Covenant and has chosen
a very small remnant from among them just as He has also done among the Gentiles
whom He foreknew.
The people that God foreknew in Romans eight and eleven, has nothing to do with
the Gentiles.
In the the text ( Romans 2 to Romans 11 ), Paul is not talking about the Gentiles!
Paul is talking about a remnant of Israel and all Israel will be saved.
There is nothing about a remnant of the Gentiles being saved, in Romans or any other letter.
God foreknew Israel, God formerly chose Israel.
Paul is explaining why Israel failed, do you understand?
The text ( Romans ) cannot be used by a Calvinist unless you cherry pick.
You replied to my previous post I assume.
Here is what you said.
God indeed has not rejected His people from the Old Covenant and has chosen
a very small remnant from among them just as He has also done among the Gentiles
whom He foreknew.
The people that God foreknew in Romans eight and eleven, has nothing to do with
the Gentiles.
In the the text ( Romans 2 to Romans 11 ), Paul is not talking about the Gentiles!
Paul is talking about a remnant of Israel and all Israel will be saved.
There is nothing about a remnant of the Gentiles being saved, in Romans or any other letter.
God foreknew Israel, God formerly chose Israel.
Paul is explaining why Israel failed, do you understand?
The text ( Romans ) cannot be used by a Calvinist unless you cherry pick.
I am a Zionist the same way God is a Zionist. I believe that God made an everlasting, unconditional covenant with Abraham.
“He remembers His covenant forever, the word which He commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant which He made with Abraham, and His oath to Isaac, and confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant.”
... as long as the sun gives light by day, and the moon and the stars shine at night, the seed of Israel (Jacob, Isaac, Abraham) shall be a nation before God forever, if the heavens can be measured, or the foundations of the earth searched then God will cast off all the seed of Israel for what they have done.
Gen. And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you.
Genesis 15:18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates
Jeremiah 31:31-34“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
Ezekiel 11:17-20 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: I will gather you from the peoples and assemble you out of the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.’ And when they come there, they will remove from it all its detestable things and all its abominations. And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
“He remembers His covenant forever, the word which He commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant which He made with Abraham, and His oath to Isaac, and confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant.”
... as long as the sun gives light by day, and the moon and the stars shine at night, the seed of Israel (Jacob, Isaac, Abraham) shall be a nation before God forever, if the heavens can be measured, or the foundations of the earth searched then God will cast off all the seed of Israel for what they have done.
Gen. And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you.
Genesis 15:18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates
Jeremiah 31:31-34“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
Ezekiel 11:17-20 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: I will gather you from the peoples and assemble you out of the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.’ And when they come there, they will remove from it all its detestable things and all its abominations. And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
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Psalm 87
A Psalm of the Sons of Korah. A Song.
On the holy mount stands the city He founded;
the LORD loves the gates of Zion
more than all the dwelling places of Jacob.
Glorious things of you are spoken,
O city of God. Selah
Among those who know Me I mention Rahab and Babylon;
behold, Philistia and Tyre, with Cush—
“This one was born there,” they say.
And of Zion it shall be said,
“This one and that one were born in her”;
for the Most High Himself will establish her.
The LORD records as He registers the peoples,
“This one was born there.” Selah
Singers and dancers alike say,
“All my springs are in you.”
A Psalm of the Sons of Korah. A Song.
On the holy mount stands the city He founded;
the LORD loves the gates of Zion
more than all the dwelling places of Jacob.
Glorious things of you are spoken,
O city of God. Selah
Among those who know Me I mention Rahab and Babylon;
behold, Philistia and Tyre, with Cush—
“This one was born there,” they say.
And of Zion it shall be said,
“This one and that one were born in her”;
for the Most High Himself will establish her.
The LORD records as He registers the peoples,
“This one was born there.” Selah
Singers and dancers alike say,
“All my springs are in you.”
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Actually, this is the Purpose and Work of Christ . . . which produces His Holy Effect of Eternal Life; Christ's Spiritual Work that transfers a person from Spiritual death to Spiritual Life.
John 9:39-41 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind." Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, "Are you saying we're blind?" "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see."
Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature." ... "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."
It is vital that no one strip Christ of His Purpose, Work, and Effect.
John 9:39-41 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind." Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, "Are you saying we're blind?" "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see."
Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature." ... "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."
It is vital that no one strip Christ of His Purpose, Work, and Effect.
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