New from WA State, looking to share and/or find my God match.

[Ballaurena]

Ballaurena, i appreciate the long post but we differ a bit on communication style which might make it difficult to understand a point especially via text.
...
It would be great if you can summarize your understanding of a topic with a short sentence which then can turn into long posts if i don't understand the meaning of the sentence.

I'll get back to you on which topic to talk about but i think i would like to continue with the topic of suffering.

Thank you again for your answer and God bless.

I will try to be more concise. You have probably figured out by now that it isn't my natural tendency.

Do let me know which you would like to pursue further.

 

[Eli1]

@Ballaurena , if you call God a Merciful One than a lot of questions are resolved just by doing that.
However, the suffering of children bothers me for many reasons.
The randomness of suffering which occurs in children who die alone and are found many years or decades after, or the randomness of a 'healthy' family too when they see the suffering of their child through some disease.

I also agree with you that God doesn't see suffering like we do and He also sent His only son here to suffer with us which tells me that suffering can bring one closer to God.
When i had my own suffering, i gained more gratitude and appreciation for God because i reasoned that He sent me the suffering because i was being ungrateful for the blessings and abundance that He has given me.
But, i am an adult who can have this growth and understanding. A child can't do any of this and to use them so an adult can realize a lesson, seems a bit too much, but again God doesn't see suffering the way we do.
In general, we are in agreement here unless you don't call God a Merciful One then we have something more to talk about.

Thank you.

 

[Ballaurena]

@Ballaurena , if you call God a Merciful One than a lot of questions are resolved just by doing that.
However, the suffering of children bothers me for many reasons.
The randomness of suffering which occurs in children who die alone and are found many years or decades after, or the randomness of a 'healthy' family too when they see the suffering of their child through some disease.

I also agree with you that God doesn't see suffering like we do and He also sent His only son here to suffer with us which tells me that suffering can bring one closer to God.
When i had my own suffering, i gained more gratitude and appreciation for God because i reasoned that He sent me the suffering because i was being ungrateful for the blessings and abundance that He has given me.
But, i am an adult who can have this growth and understanding. A child can't do any of this and to use them so an adult can realize a lesson, seems a bit too much, but again God doesn't see suffering the way we do.
In general, we are in agreement here unless you don't call God a Merciful One then we have something more to talk about.

Thank you.

I indeed agree that we in general are in agreement, and that our God is a a merciful one.

The one place that I wasn't was in your statement of:

But, i am an adult who can have this growth and understanding. A child can't do any of this...

It may not be in the way an adult does, but a child can very much have growth and understanding from suffering. It's not exactly the same but I have substitute taught in elementary school Special Ed, and even young children who are developmentally delayed pick-up a lot about intangible things. For example, if I ever have such a child I would be very cautious about putting them in such a class because so much of what the children actually learn in such places is manipulation.

Also, my mom was here next to me so I read her your post, to which she asked me what I learned from the suffering I experienced as a child since I was both a migraineur from an early age, and had a ruptured appendix when I was seven. First off, I learned a lot about compassion, endurance, that life goes on, that people love me, that the adults were willing and capable of taking care of me, restraint from avoiding eating that which made me sick, and more. Plus, as I told my mom, the appendix pain told me that I needed to visit the doctor.

Beyond my own experiences, though, I have seen and heard how God often allows the children He is working with to have maladies to grow them, whether it is lactose intolerance, dyslexia, yeast infection with consequent obesity, autism, visual impairment, dental issues, etc. I know for me, God healed me when the time was right and I have seen him do the same with many of the others too, though not all have grown up yet.

God also threw down the gauntlet on a then eight-year-old I know, telling him that if he prayed hard enough, God would heal his cat that had cancer. The kid gave it a fair effort, but not all he could, and God let the cat go. There is more to the story, but this kid in particular has a calling that requires strong determination. God knew what He was doing and didn't see him as too little to learn. Also, I have subbed enough classes to know that even in first and second grade, children have largely picked their course. They aren't too old for it to be altered with good discipline and love, but they have already made a decision on if they want to be cooperative or rebellious at this point.

I am starting to wonder how young you mean, though. I don't know what a baby could get, for example, but that doesn't mean its nothing. People learn through their spirit and not just their physical brain, and I believe this to be more so for babies, not less.

Maybe a little off the main topic here, but I'm remembering now that the time God was speaking to me of pain was in accordance with a bigger lesson on the meaning of the verse that God will have mercy on whom He has mercy, and compassion on whom He has compassion (Romans 9:15). Basically, God's context of mercy and compassion is a lot bigger than ours. We want to be saved from the suffering of the moment, but He is looking to save us from the bigger issues that are causing us harm.

Also, (sorry, I can't help it entirely) as for the children that suffer to the point of death, a while back I concluded that, that WAS mercy. For how merciful would it be if God let a child go on in starvation or suffering for decades. No, it doesn't mean He necessarily wants them to die, but if their existence isn't going to produce real life, why leave them to suffer?

But there are cases when it IS actually His will for a child to die. There is a lady in my church who's husband is respectful and curious, but an unbeliever. God told her at one point that He is taking them through three things that will bring her husband to God, and the first of these was the loss of their baby that was just days old. Shockingly, God indicated that this death was the baby's very purpose in this life. Not unlike the blind man in the Bible that was born blind specifically "so that the works of God might be displayed in him" (John 9:3b).

 

[Eli1]

I have to admit that 7 years old was a bit too young for me to realize that they can have growth too.
So, thank you for mentioning that and your personal story. My assumptions of that age were incorrect.

I work in hospital settings where children younger than 7 are struck with cancer and that's very heartbreaking for the family.
So they are very young, too young to have any understanding of what is even happening, but the family is heartbroken. And for what?
What is the family going to learn by this?
Hard to say and it's a mystery, but it's something that bothers me very much.

You also have a couple of points there besides your personal suffering:

1. Is death better off than suffering? Technically yes, but then what's your view on assisted suicide for people who are in pain?
2. If it's God's will for a child to die so the parents can learn something, why use this method and not another method?

I mean the second question is linked to Christ's suffering too, so i don't know how the details work but suffering seems like a very close door to God. That's what i've learned personally. Not sure why it has to be this way, but i hope that's one of those things waiting to be revealed as the Bible says.

 

[Ballaurena]

I have to admit that 7 years old was a bit too young for me to realize that they can have growth too.
So, thank you for mentioning that and your personal story. My assumptions of that age were incorrect.

I work in hospital settings where children younger than 7 are struck with cancer and that's very heartbreaking for the family.
So they are very young, too young to have any understanding of what is even happening, but the family is heartbroken. And for what?
What is the family going to learn by this?
Hard to say and it's a mystery, but it's something that bothers me very much.

You also have a couple of points there besides your personal suffering:

1. Is death better off than suffering? Technically yes, but then what's your view on assisted suicide for people who are in pain?
2. If it's God's will for a child to die so the parents can learn something, why use this method and not another method?

I mean the second question is linked to Christ's suffering too, so i don't know how the details work but suffering seems like a very close door to God. That's what i've learned personally. Not sure why it has to be this way, but i hope that's one of those things waiting to be revealed as the Bible says.

Thank you for your humble listening; it is far too rare a trait. And thank you for sharing. I see how this is a very real and tangible issue for you. That must be very hard indeed. I worked about 9 months in a nursing home and it was hard enough for me to watch the elder population suffer and die, especially when February came around and we lost so many that most of a wing had to be closed down from all the deaths. I was young then, though, and God has given me a lot more context since then.

Even so, I won't pretend to have all the answers. I only know what God shares with me and what life has taught, and there are some very difficult issues that you are grappling with. Sometimes even when we get the concepts logically, there is a level of understanding that is spiritual that takes a different kind of learning.

Let me now answer your specific questions.

1. Is death better off than suffering? Technically yes, but then what's your view on assisted suicide for people who are in pain?

It isn't our call. The lives belong to God. To take one would be a very serious type of theft.

Also, we can ask Him for what we think best, but He only knows what value there might be in facing those final days, or even if He has purpose for a miracle at the last minute. I have had deaths in response to prayer before, though it wasn't what I had in mind when I was praying. If you think it best, tell God your thoughts, but then trust Him.

2. If it's God's will for a child to die so the parents can learn something, why use this method and not another method?

God always goes for best (Well at least the best that can be had given the circumstances and choices of people that He can't/won't control). If God picks this method than there isn't a better method. Either it isn't doable another way or the cost would be worse.

Also, why not? God is the author of life. If that is enough to fulfill life's purpose to Him, who are we to disagree? It isn't that we can't or even shouldn't have our own ideas, but ultimately it goes again to trusting in who He is, that He knows better than us and is holy and righteous in His actions.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

A child can't do any of this and to use them so an adult can realize a lesson, seems a bit too much,

Lets say that this above from your election is the bud and lets say that this bud is on a branch and then lets say that this branch is under God and in its branches are many birds of the air, and under its bough is the child.

Can we do that?

 

[Eli1]

@Ballaurena the only thing I can say to your response is Amen and God bless you.
I can see that you have a lot of spiritual maturity and strong faith and peace.
May God have mercy on us all and may He come soon and fix this fallen world.

I’d like to go back to your other post now where you said that God is not omnipotent or omniscient.
Can you explain this to me please?

Also, in another topic, can you please summarize your understanding of salvation to me since I saw you made a comment in the topic of babies’ salvation?

Thank you.

My summarized understanding of Salvation is this:

No one but God knows where anyone is going to Heaven or Hell.

That’s my understanding of Salvation.

You also said that Hell wasn’t what most people think. Can you also explain this to me?

So, we got 3 topics:

• Omniscience of God
• Salvation
• What is Hell like?

Thank you.

 

[Eli1]

Lets say that this above from your election is the bud and lets say that this bud is on a branch and then lets say that this branch is under God and in its branches are many birds of the air, and under its bough is the child.

Can we do that?

I'm sorry but i don't understand what you're saying.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I'm sorry but i don't understand what you're saying.

Lets say that this above from your election is the bud and lets say that this bud is on a branch and then lets say that this branch is under God and in its branches are many birds of the air, and under its bough is the child.

Can we do that?

And the 'above'

A child can't do any of this and to use them so an adult can realize a lesson, seems a bit too much

Your premise is that a child cannot learn from suffering in the way that you qualified that meaning.

When i had my own suffering, i gained more gratitude and appreciation for God because i reasoned that He sent me the suffering because i was being ungrateful for the blessings and abundance that He has given me.
But, i am an adult who can have this growth and understanding.

I disagree. And I have implied so by a means that is out of your reach. So I do wonder what benefit there would be in expressing myself in context of a hospital ward beginning in 1959 in one generation and moving on to the next by 'election' of birth - insult - LD designation and a distinction between Learning Disability as a diagnosed condition at 2 years to move out of the more general global developmental disorder diagnosis. AND Learning Difficulty as a psychiatric/behavioural diagnosis giving rise to behaviour models of learning that prove to impede learning and in fact create the environmental that expressly makes learning difficult.

And I am not expressly referring to the psychiatric domain of neurological function on an implied genetic pathology - rather expressly the very distinction between how we know anything at all when, as seems likely, when knowing is in truth a fear of looking because we cannot bear what God will tell us if we insist in asking Him. Children are often more courageous than we are IF they have both the implied mind and the courage to ask God.

What first came to my mind when I read your 'hospital ward' environment comment was a reminder of a vision I experienced just a few weeks after being saved in a prison cell in solitary confinement. I saw in our hospitals that a move of God will arise on the palliative care beds of the dying. Where doctors will be in a state of consternation and go out into the streets to follow their now healed patients because they could not resolve how it was that despite the condition of silence that these patients were under - a duress of the state upheld to and implemented by hospital staff - they were NOT discharged and now THEY were refused as doctors. THAT consternation is unresolvable other than by repentance.

I do believe that little children can and do learn very well from their suffering - and especially when it touches their minds. On a practical note your engagement with @Ballaurena seems to be going well.

 

[Eli1]

And the 'above'



Your premise is that a child cannot learn from suffering in the way that you qualified that meaning.



I disagree. And I have implied so by a means that is out of your reach. So I do wonder what benefit there would be in expressing myself in context of a hospital ward beginning in 1959 in one generation and moving on to the next by 'election' of birth - insult - LD designation and a distinction between Learning Disability as a diagnosed condition at 2 years to move out of the more general global developmental disorder diagnosis. AND Learning Difficulty as a psychiatric/behavioural diagnosis giving rise to behaviour models of learning that prove to impede learning and in fact create the environmental that expressly makes learning difficult.

And I am not expressly referring to the psychiatric domain of neurological function on an implied genetic pathology - rather expressly the very distinction between how we know anything at all when, as seems likely, when knowing is in truth a fear of looking because we cannot bear what God will tell us if we insist in asking Him. Children are often more courageous than we are IF they have both the implied mind and the courage to ask God.

What first came to my mind when I read your 'hospital ward' environment comment was a reminder of a vision I experienced just a few weeks after being saved in a prison cell in solitary confinement. I saw in our hospitals that a move of God will arise on the palliative care beds of the dying. Where doctors will be in a state of consternation and go out into the streets to follow their now healed patients because they could not resolve how it was that despite the condition of silence that these patients were under - a duress of the state upheld to and implemented by hospital staff - they were NOT discharged and now THEY were refused as doctors. THAT consternation is unresolvable other than by repentance.

I do believe that little children can and do learn very well from their suffering - and especially when it touches their minds. On a practical note your engagement with @Ballaurena seems to be going well.

Look, i understand that you're British.
But if you want to be understood by a wider audience, try to avoid the slang in your culture so you can be understood by a wider audience.
For example, i can also speak in slang that only my high school friends understand while the rest of the audience is looking like a deer in a headlights.

So, to summarize, i acknowledged that what Ballaurena said is true and i was wrong in regards to little children (as young at 7 years old) having growth, but i still have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Look, i understand that you're British.
But if you want to be understood by a wider audience, try to avoid the slang in your culture so you can be understood by a wider audience.
For example, i can also speak in slang that only my high school friends understand while the rest of the audience is looking like a deer in a headlights.

So, to summarize, i acknowledged that what Ballaurena said is true and i was wrong in regards to little children (as young at 7 years old) having growth, but i still have no clue what you're talking about.

As you wish.

 

[RoselynMichaels]

Hi. I love to teach as it is my calling, learn about other people, and yes, I would like to meet my mate.

That’s great, good to hear, I’m new here and I will to meet new people to explore new things

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

"Isn't it amazing how the Lord designed us? We are privileged to know the One Who established the sciences, provided knowledge about the world, our own design, and how it applies to us."

It is indeed. There are two reasons I went into biology. I both wanted to learn the mechanical designs of the master engineer, and I wanted to understand what makes people who they are. On the latter of those I have since come to understand that the second of those two isn't from the physical, but I have consequently studied the body enough to know how unsubstantiated it is to think otherwise; I can now wrap my mind around the chemistry and physics of everything from how a muscle works to the intricate dances of flow that allow the kidneys to get just the right balance of excretion and reservation of different substances. But in all my studies of the brain and neurologic system there was nothing that could logically or intuitively bridge chemical and electrical impulses over to consciousness other than an assumption that it must work because we are conscious.

"When I was 5 or 6 we moved to Washington for a short time. My Mom couldn't adapt to the weather and wanted to move back to West Virginia"

Couldn't take the weather, huh? Presuming you all went to the population-heavy west side, I am guessing she couldn't take the gloom, since having moved to the east side, I personally miss the mild temps that meant I could almost always go outside without fear of snow or the triple digits.

"It sounds like the left coast bias doesn't just include California. My state is pretty conservative, but I think public education across the country has continued to become more and more biased against Christianity since it's origins. There are a lot of decent teachers throughout, but their hands are tied when it comes to teaching from anything Biblical or outside of the designated curriculum."

Indeed, the left coast includes CA, OR, and WA. And one really sad thing about the continued increase in the bias against Christians is that our public education system was invented to make sure everyone could read the Bible. How far we have fallen!

Thank you for recognizing the decent teachers. I have given up traditional social media, and one of my many difficulties there was the Christians and conservatives there that would rail against teachers, ignoring the fact that there are many of us in their same camp, so we were getting attacked from both sides. And even if the state won't hire us to teach their kids, it doesn't mean we cease to be teachers - Teacher is my identity and the core of my being as designed by God.

I have to admit that I've been outspoken about the depths that public and even private schools have sunken. However, I recognize that many teachers are Christian and not a part of the problems. Their students are blessed to have such teachers that reflect Christ. Here's an example.
There was a great primary school that invited me to teach many times. Their staff were believers who started the day with prayer as they ended it. They included biblical themes in spite of it being a public school. There were no pressures from the parents to do otherwise from what I heard.

That's pretty neat that you know that the Bible was the primary text book and purpose of education was to learn how to read it. Early American writings demonstrate literacy far beyond my own, in spite of my small library. I've read that the literacy rate per Capita was higher two hundred years ago than it is today.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

If you disagree, then you will have to take it up with God. I will say, though, that God's standard of humility is much higher than we can often recognize on our own.

It may be wise to resist defining the 'humility' of God through a looking glass.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

There are two reasons I went into biology. I both wanted to learn the mechanical designs of the master engineer, and I wanted to understand what makes people who they are. On the latter of those I have since come to understand that the second of those two isn't from the physical, but I have consequently studied the body enough to know how unsubstantiated it is to think otherwise

May I ask you to enlarge on this comment?

Clearly the comment is predicated to Human Biology as a stem subject then appears to go into an undefined space - yet is an implied 'soul' that is itself undefined by the body. Would you like to see that in greek from the NT?

 

[Ballaurena]

@Ballaurena the only thing I can say to your response is Amen and God bless you.
I can see that you have a lot of spiritual maturity and strong faith and peace.
May God have mercy on us all and may He come soon and fix this fallen world.

I’d like to go back to your other post now where you said that God is not omnipotent or omniscient.
Can you explain this to me please?

Also, in another topic, can you please summarize your understanding of salvation to me since I saw you made a comment in the topic of babies’ salvation?

Thank you.

My summarized understanding of Salvation is this:

No one but God knows where anyone is going to Heaven or Hell.

That’s my understanding of Salvation.

You also said that Hell wasn’t what most people think. Can you also explain this to me?

So, we got 3 topics:

• Omniscience of God
• Salvation
• What is Hell like?

Thank you.

I wrote you a long reply but it doesn't feel like its for mass consumption. I will try to send it to you in a private conversation.

 

[Ballaurena]

May I ask you to enlarge on this comment?

Clearly the comment is predicated to Human Biology as a stem subject then appears to go into an undefined space - yet is an implied 'soul' that is itself undefined by the body. Would you like to see that in greek from the NT?

Are you a linguist or am I misunderstanding you? I would love to see anything you have to share on the subject.

What I meant is that I studied all of the body physiology in depth down to the chemistry and physics of the cells and tissues. All of it was ultimately understandable until they tried to attribute consciousness to the brain. There wasn't any even intuitive sense of the brain adding up to it.

Side note, I am going to be out of town soon, so please don't take it personal if I don't get back to you. I know you have written to me several times. I will if it seems reasonable and wise upon my return.

 

[Ballaurena]

It may be wise to resist defining the 'humility' of God through a looking glass.

Friend, that is exactly what we have prophecy for, which was my source, per 1 Corinthians 13.

 

[Niki7]

God also threw down the gauntlet on a then eight-year-old I know, telling him that if he prayed hard enough, God would heal his cat that had cancer

 

[Niki7]

Thank you for your humble listening; it is far too rare a trait.

that is true. and that is all I'm gonna say