The Great Blessing Of Election Unto Salvation

[Cameron143]

we are the adopted children of God in Christ.

Adoption is one description of what we are, but it is hardly the only way we are described. But I take it your answer to my question was yes.

 

[CS1]

So all NT references to the elect refer only to Jews?

the answer is yes and no. It depends on the text and the context, as Romans was written the Jew also, as was Hebrews, yet in both, we must properly keep the authorial intent and context. So to say in the all the New Testament, when it is well-known, Paul went to the Jews(the elect) before he went to the Gentiles is not asking an honest question but a loaded one

 

[Cameron143]

the answer is yes and no. It depends on the text and the context, as Romans was written the Jew also, as was Hebrews, yet in both, we must properly keep the authorial intent and context. So to say in the all the New Testament, when it is well-known, Paul went to the Jews(the elect) before he went to the Gentiles is not asking an honest question but a loaded one

Sorry you found it loaded, but it's a fair question. What you shared is true, and if all of Paul's letters were directed at Jewish audiences, your assertions would be fair. But clearly that's not the case. In the opening post, the passage is not directed to Jews but the entire church at Ephesus.

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

The entire context is the spiritual blessings found in Christ, not salvation. Not one has been chosen for salvation, but those in Christ have been chosen to receive the spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.

Those of the “seed of the promise” of the election of God spoken of in Romans 9 who were under the law, have been given Christ Jesus as a propitiation for their sin, releasing them from the law and of the death that they deserved for committing adultery with the strange gods of other peoples

to say every person on planet earth chooses their salvation makes the election of God to no effect and makes Jesus a liar when He clearly states that we do not choose him but He chooses us

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

the answer is yes and no. It depends on the text and the context, as Romans was written the Jew also, as was Hebrews, yet in both, we must properly keep the authorial intent and context. So to say in the all the New Testament, when it is well-known, Paul went to the Jews(the elect) before he went to the Gentiles is not asking an honest question but a loaded one

the “nations” that paul went to were the nations God had promised to make of Jacob spoken to Abraham. He scattered them in their disobedience but he gathered them back to Himself by the cross and the gospel.

The new covenant was made with the “house of israel and the house of judah” only

the promises were made to abrahams seed in isaac through Jacob only

God cannot break his covenant and it cannot be altered or added to as paul stated, if God be made a liar who broke his covenant then all of this is for nothing but we know that if not true

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

christianity was not a universal “religion” but Rome hijacked it and made it that way to enlarge their power.

christianity was the fulfillment of promises made to abraham and to his seed, his offspring only

both covenants were made to “the house of israel and the house of judah” only

you can’t get around that but you can ask yourself do you believe that God kept His promises to abraham by enlarging his seed making them into many nations?

then ask if you believe that their messiah and savior did come to reconcile them back to himself and bless them above and beyond all the peoples of the planet?

christians have been asking the wrong questions for a very long time and the “jews” know this and have hijacked the identity of the true israel of God

 

[Burn1986]

Paul and the other Apostles constantly used the term, elect, and election as they communicated with the churches.
God has elected a nation
God has elected a servant
God has elected individuals
God has an elect Covenant people His Church.
Paul had no problem using this term to describe the objects of God's love; 2tim2:
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Titus 1
1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

So Burn, let me ask you, why do you dislike the term elect, or election, and the God who does all this?

Is it possible you have been exposed to weak and false teaching like those that offer anti Calvinistic posts, and present only caricatures of it. Ask any questions you have and we can offer help.

You’re cherry picking verses to try and say “Look at me. I’m elect. Now I can sit back and bask in my electness.” Why? What good does it do if we’re called elect? Is knowing that gonna help my rebellious daughter of give me insight on finances?

Yes, the words are in there, but they are used in magnifying God’s sovereignty and His majesty, not for the individual to be high and mighty in your thinking.

But, you don’t care. You’re just pushing an agenda to distract from seeking God.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Then we find out in Romans 11 how elect gentiles are grafted in, for unbelieving Israelites.

I just read through Romans 11 again.

Where are you reading the phrase "elect Gentiles" in this chapter that you've referenced here? I'm not seeing it.







____________


And one other question (only semi-related ):

...how do you understand the wording in verse 22b [when it's talking about the Olive Tree... and the Gentiles], which says, "... otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."



I know many churches teach that this refers to "loss of salvation" (note: I do not believe that is its point)... but how do you understand this? What do you believe it means (...in this context, of course)?

 

[John146]

Those of the “seed of the promise” of the election of God spoken of in Romans 9 who were under the law, have been given Christ Jesus as a propitiation for their sin, releasing them from the law and of the death that they deserved for committing adultery with the strange gods of other peoples

to say every person on planet earth chooses their salvation makes the election of God to no effect and makes Jesus a liar when He clearly states that we do not choose him but He chooses us

Christ is God's elect. And notice how election is tied to service not salvation.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

 

[Hakawaka]

Why even bother to debate? God elected me to believe the way I do.

One of the strangest things about calvinists. They love to debate, debating is their version of soul winning it appears. They love to debate people who God decreed would disagree with them.

Its also strange that if you ask calvinists: "Are non-calvinist christians saved?" They usually will reply "Yes!" but hold on a minute, why would God decree incorrect beliefs to the majority of His people??

 

[Iconoclast]

You’re cherry picking verses to try and say “Look at me. I’m elect. Now I can sit back and bask in my electness.” Why? What good does it do if we’re called elect? Is knowing that gonna help my rebellious daughter of give me insight on finances?

Yes, the words are in there, but they are used in magnifying God’s sovereignty and His majesty, not for the individual to be high and mighty in your thinking.

But, you don’t care. You’re just pushing an agenda to distract from seeking God.

Not quite sure where you get these dark ideas from. No one has said or even hinted at what you say.The subject of the thread was not dealing with your rebellious daughter, or your finances, was it? The issue looks as if it is your attitude towards truth.

 

[Iconoclast]

I just read through Romans 11 again.

Where are you reading the phrase "elect Gentiles" in this chapter that you've referenced here? I'm not seeing it.







____________


And one other question (only semi-related ):

...how do you understand the wording in verse 22b [when it's talking about the Olive Tree... and the Gentiles], which says, "... otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."



I know many churches teach that this refers to "loss of salvation" (note: I do not believe that is its point)... but how do you understand this? What do you believe it means (...in this context, of course)?

 

[Iconoclast]

It does not use the term born again, sanctified, justified, redeemed , foreknown, adopted, or anything else either.

Does that mean these items do not apply unless they are listed in every verse??? I do not see the term trinity, so is that at issue?

 

[Burn1986]

Not quite sure where you get these dark ideas from. No one has said or even hinted at what you say.The subject of the thread was not dealing with your rebellious daughter, or your finances, was it? The issue looks as if it is your attitude towards truth.

Did you miss the words “…election to salvation”?

As far as the other stuff I mentioned, you need to read the posts before jumping in angrily with only a little information.

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

Christ is God's elect. And notice how election is tied to service not salvation.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

i agree with you, Christ is referred to as “mine elect” in this messianic prophecy, however, it is used over 50 times in the OT and the NT referring to the seed of Jacob.

When God called Abraham and made the unconditional promises to him, he also revealed the gospel. God was to carry out a plan choosing one man, regenerating his wifes womb which supernaturally brought forth Isaac whereby “the seed of promise” began with Jacob.

God didnt just promise to make one nation, bringing forth generations of offspring of whom a messiah would one day come; offering salvation and eternal life. He promised these offspring would become many nations, they would be innumerable and inherit the world.

This plan over many generations was accomplished, God did make many nations of these offspring and sent them a saviour who did confirm these promises being accomplished. the seed of promise received the gospel and God has built them into the mightiest nations the world has ever known.
This in stark contrast to every nation who rejected the gospel, 2000 years later and they are still sitting sand, overpopulated and confined to famines, pestilence and poverty; running around in jungles chanting to their false gods; subjugated by dictators, tyrants, oligarchs and imams.

Its absolutely stunning what God has done in over 3,500 years of prophecy and with little left to be fulfilled, we are living in an amazing time

 

[CS1]

Sorry you found it loaded, but it's a fair question. What you shared is true, and if all of Paul's letters were directed at Jewish audiences, your assertions would be fair. But clearly that's not the case. In the opening post, the passage is not directed to Jews but the entire church at Ephesus.

Again, I did not say all of Paul's letters were directed to the Jews. Only I said ALSO. You assume much. Yes, that is correct. Paul's letter was to the church in Ephesus, which were Gentiles. This brings us back to what I said about Context and Authorial intent.

 

[CS1]

the “nations” that paul went to were the nations God had promised to make of Jacob spoken to Abraham. He scattered them in their disobedience but he gathered them back to Himself by the cross and the gospel.

The new covenant was made with the “house of israel and the house of judah” only

the promises were made to abrahams seed in isaac through Jacob only

God cannot break his covenant and it cannot be altered or added to as paul stated, if God be made a liar who broke his covenant then all of this is for nothing but we know that if not true

Hmmm, Jesus said in Acts 1:8 you will witness to Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the uttermost part of the earth.

 

[John146]

i agree with you, Christ is referred to as “mine elect” in this messianic prophecy, however, it is used over 50 times in the OT and the NT referring to the seed of Jacob.

When God called Abraham and made the unconditional promises to him, he also revealed the gospel. God was to carry out a plan choosing one man, regenerating his wifes womb which supernaturally brought forth Isaac whereby “the seed of promise” began with Jacob.

God didnt just promise to make one nation, bringing forth generations of offspring of whom a messiah would one day come; offering salvation and eternal life. He promised these offspring would become many nations, they would be innumerable and inherit the world.

This plan over many generations was accomplished, God did make many nations of these offspring and sent them a saviour who did confirm these promises being accomplished. the seed of promise received the gospel and God has built them into the mightiest nations the world has ever known.
This in stark contrast to every nation who rejected the gospel, 2000 years later and they are still sitting sand, overpopulated and confined to famines, pestilence and poverty; running around in jungles chanting to their false gods; subjugated by dictators, tyrants, oligarchs and imams.

Its absolutely stunning what God has done in over 3,500 years of prophecy and with little left to be fulfilled, we are living in an amazing time

Election is always to service not salvation. Christ was God's servant, his elect. The nation of Israel was God's servant nation to bring about the seed. Those who are in Christ are God's servant used as ambassadors to this world. There will be elect servants during the tribulation used to declare the coming of the King.

 

[Cameron143]

Again, I did not say all of Paul's letters were directed to the Jews. Only I said ALSO. You assume much. Yes, that is correct. Paul's letter was to the church in Ephesus, which were Gentiles. This brings us back to what I said about Context and Authorial intent.

So...one can be said to be chosen before the foundation of the world, it's according to God's purpose, but not be elected?
And I'm not assuming anything. I'm asking questions. That's someone trying not to assume.

 

[John146]

So...one can be said to be chosen before the foundation of the world, it's according to God's purpose, but not be elected?
And I'm not assuming anything. I'm asking questions. That's someone trying not to assume.

People are chosen before the foundation of the world. The context is spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. Why do Calvinists always make the context about them?