There will be no Rapture!!!

[Musicmaster]

In 66AD the roman army penetrated the walls of jerusalem and just as their victory seemed certain, Cestius Gallus, the roman legate of syria ordered retreat of the twelfth legion leaving the Judeans to assume God had delivered them however…

Christians living in Jerusalem and Judea, did not share in any rejoicing. They recalled what Jesus Christ had foretold: “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. Then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her.”—Luke 21:20, 21.

Traditional sources indicate that the Christians heeded Jesus’ prophetic command and forsook Jerusalem and Judea at that time. Ecclesiastical historian Eusebius of the third and fourth centuries C.E. writes: “The whole body, however, of the church at Jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation, given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city, and dwelt at a certain town beyond the Jordan, called Pella.” Epiphanius of the same general period states that ‘the Christians who dwelt in Jerusalem, being forewarned by Christ of the approaching siege, removed to Pella.’

The land that was promised to Abraham as it stands today is occupied by the children of Esau and as is prophecied in Obidiah and Malachi , the land will be cleansed with fire and brimstone, Jesus Christ upon slaying the remnant of Edom ; will gather the house of israel and the house of judah to himself returning them to the land that is rightfully theirs to rule over the nations.

Many prophecies i’ve realized seemingly have partial fulfillment leaving a future fulfillment according to the will of the Father, there is room for discussion concerning how prophecy may unfold but there are also certain prophecies that can not be twisted by the will of man.

Edom is especially set for destruction as know from the womb Yahweh declared “jacob i have loved, esau i have hated “ and the saga is foretold in the prophets until the end which i believe we are at the precipice.

Ishmael as well, the islamic nations of the world, the “mixed multitudes (arabs)” will also be decimated and every nation that stands against the King of Kings will be slayed

That's some good stuff, Mike. I've always enjoyed studying history and piecing it together with what 1/4+% of the entire Bible talks about. which is end times. Every pathway through scripture points to two things...Yahshuah and the end times when the Orthodox Jews will finally admit Yahshuah as Messiah, Lord, King and Yah, when they look upon Him whom they had pierced, they will finally weep over their denials and rejection of He who laid down His own life for us all.

Amen

MM

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

They were good messages in those movies....... Bible truth.

But, hated by those who wish truth were fiction.


So?

All of a sudden God begins using Jews once again on earth again to do his work?

Hmmmmm..... no problem. Just need the right way to spin to deny it.

144,000 Jews!

And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel."
Revelation. 7:4​

Go ahead and deny that.
You will. (try to)

No one will have their free will over ridden by God.
Proof is seen in how men are free to deny even the most obvious.

Grace to those who Love the Lord!

i’m confused by reply😒 i believe the word of God which speaks of 2 resurrections not Kirk Cameron and the pre trib post trib deception

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

Indeed? Well, then let's look at that:

Acts 1:10-11
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

What was Yahshuah doing before and while ascending? He was showering them with instructions and blessings. The angels stated that He will come back in "like manner" as they saw Him going. No blood spattering His garment at that time, no wrath, anger and judgement, but rather blessing.

Now...

Revelation 19:11-16
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

The "manner" in which He ascended is NOTHING akin to His second coming at the end of the tribulation.

So, claiming His coming for the Church, with us called up to meet Him in the air, with no mention of Heaven opening, no mention of a white horse, no mention of crowns on His head, nothing about His clothing spattered with blood while leaving in the manner of His departure, none of the imagery is comparable in manner or or anything else.

If we look at the Greek word translated "like manner" (tropos ), we see that is has this meaning:

"1. a manner, way, fashion: ὅν τρόπον, as, even as, like as (Winers Grammar, § 32, 6; Buttmann, § 131, 12): Matthew 23:37; Luke 13:34; Acts 1:11 "

So, dare one do a systematic study, he will see that the two "comings" are not at all one and the same in any sense.

MM

i don’t deny that Jesus is coming back and i’m trying to figure out which part of my post you are refuting

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

That's some good stuff, Mike. I've always enjoyed studying history and piecing it together with what 1/4+% of the entire Bible talks about. which is end times. Every pathway through scripture points to two things...Yahshuah and the end times when the Orthodox Jews will finally admit Yahshuah as Messiah, Lord, King and Yah, when they look upon Him whom they had pierced, they will finally weep over their denials and rejection of He who laid down His own life for us all.

Amen

MM

when you look at some of the eyewitness testimonies of what happened in 70 ad and 3 1/2 years leading up to that event, they talk about the chariots of fire in the sky and the armies in the sky.. now i’m not sure how to put that with the whole of prophecy however i have a feeling that those who pierced him did see something and whatever it was destroyed them.

i don’t call those devils in black garb who practice blood magic out of the babylonian talmud and claim to be judah, Gods chosen.

They are the children of esau parading like they did when they stood against jesus, their own writings reveal who they are but most importantly their works reveal them being the tares just as Jesus told us

peace unto you brother🙏

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The rapture happens on the last day

May I ask you, what is your understanding of "the rapture happens on the last day"... "the last day" of what?

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

They are technically Gentile until they accept Jesus.
I am technically Jew until I accepted Jesus.

We don't have any such power to keep God from fulfilling His Plan at the Time He set it into motion. But I like what you have said

i’m just happy that there is a place to discuss the word of God with my brethren, i dont use any social media i’d say this is the closest thing i have to conversing with the body of Christ
🙏🙏🙏
i hope we can continue edifying each other
“iron sharpens iron”

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

^ @MikeIsraelite72 ,

The Luke 21:12-24a passage (to which you refer) was indeed fulfilled in the events surrounding 70ad... "BEFORE ALL" of the beginning of birth pangs that vv.8-11 had just spelled out;


However, Matthew 24:4-8 STARTS OUT with the beginning of birth pangs (which ARE the Seals in the far-future "IN QUICKNESS" time period leading up to His RETURN to the earth); and Matthew 24:4-8's BEGINNING of birth pangs" is THEN IS FOLLOWED BY what is spelled out NEXT in that text, verses 9-14 and vv.15-21 (including that DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" instruction!), etc etc...




IOW, there are TWO DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" points in the overall chronology:

1) the one in 70ad (Lk21:23,20) was "BEFORE ALL" the beginning of birth pangs (v.12 informs);

2) the one that's future (Matt24:15,21) FOLLOWS the beginning of birth pangs


[they CANNOT be the SAME!]



And they have COMPLETELY OPPOSITE outcomes / ends

matthew 24 presents 2 questions to jesus.
1) referring to the end of the temple
2) refers to the end of the age

luke 21 indeed corresponding to the end of the temple as well as the gospel being preached to every creature, i did quote Paul in earlier posts referring to this being accomplished THEN the temple was destroyed as Jesus prophecied

 

[Iconoclast]

May I ask you, what is your understanding of "the rapture happens on the last day"... "the last day" of what?

Hello TDW,
I keep it simple and notice 3x in John 6 we are told by Jesus when all will be raised up.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life:
and I will raise him up at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Hi @Iconoclast ,

Forgive me... I still am not grasping how *you* are defining the phrase "THE LAST DAY" (the last day OF WHAT?)

What is your understanding of that phrase? What does it mean (from your perspective)? Give me some kind of idea of how you are seeing this phrase.


If you can clarify, I thank you. = )





["IN the last day"]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Hello TDW,
I keep it simple and notice 3x in John 6 we are told by Jesus when all will be raised up.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.

I see verse 39 as being somewhat distinct from v.40, in that, v.39 is referring to THINGS, while v.40 is referring to PERSONS.
(IOW, v.40 is not merely a "repeat" of what v.39 had just said.)


So here in v.39, it refers more to things along the lines of what Luke 1:32b had said,

"... and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David"...





...which aligns perfectly with what Peter said (to "ye men of Israel") in Acts 3... zeroing in on verse 21, here:


"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."

(referring to OT prophets and their OT prophecies--including those prophecies regarding "David's throne"--which are not yet fulfilled... but WILL be... "IN the LAST DAY" [not merely a singular "24-hr day" kind of day])

 

[Iconoclast]

^ Hi @Iconoclast ,

Forgive me... I still am not grasping how *you* are defining the phrase "THE LAST DAY" (the last day OF WHAT?)

What is your understanding of that phrase? What does it mean (from your perspective)? Give me some kind of idea of how you are seeing this phrase.


If you can clarify, I thank you. = )





["IN the last day"]

Ok, I will try and clarify. Jn 6 is written right next to Jn.5. The chapter Divisions were added later on.

in Jn 5 we learn this-
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The White Throne Judgment is unto life, or second death.
That is the Last day of that which is temporal and seen.
The unseen eternal state is the domain of all who have eternal life.

2Cor4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen:
for the things which are seen are temporal;
but the things which are not seen are eternal.

All come forth.....For The Sheep and Goat Judgment

Mt.25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Does This help? It is the last day.
1 Thess says all who died In Jesus are raised up to be with those who are alive and remain.Jesus says it is The Last Day

 

[Iconoclast]

I see verse 39 as being somewhat distinct from v.40, in that, v.39 is referring to THINGS, while v.40 is referring to PERSONS.
(IOW, v.40 is not merely a "repeat" of what v.39 had just said.)


So here in v.39, it refers more to things along the lines of what Luke 1:32b had said,

"... and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David"...





...which aligns perfectly with what Peter said (to "ye men of Israel") in Acts 3... zeroing in on verse 21, here:


"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."

(referring to OT prophets and their OT prophecies--including those prophecies regarding "David's throne"--which are not yet fulfilled... but WILL be... "IN the LAST DAY" [not merely a singular "24-hr day" kind of day])

Acts says this concerning that:
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

 

[Iconoclast]

Here it is repeated in Acts 13;
32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Acts says this concerning that:
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Stating the facts.

All this is saying is that His "bodily resurrection" was necessary (to fulfill this prophecy)... In other words, He's not going to sit on David's throne in just "soul/spirit" (no body)... nor can He, as a dead person. lol



Chapter THREE tells the "WHEN" of it, though. = ) (read again where I quoted v.21 in previous post)










[I'll just add here: the "Amill-teachings" do not grasp the TWO DISTINCT "RAISE" issues in Acts 3, and therefore incorrectly conclude that "David's throne" has now RELOCATED up to HEAVEN. Again, this is based on their not grasping these TWO distinct "RAISE" issues in Acts 3... 1) His being raised to a position of prominence BEFORE the Cross (His earthly ministry for three-plus years--vv.22,26); 2) His being raised from the dead AFTER the Cross (obviously; v.15); "Amill-teachings" BLUR THESE DISTINCTIONS and thus miss the import and meaning of this passage in Acts 3]

 

[Iconoclast]

Stating the facts.

All this is saying is that His "bodily resurrection" was necessary (to fulfill this prophecy)... In other words, He's not going to sit on David's throne in just "soul/spirit" (no body)... nor can He, as a dead person. lol



Chapter THREE tells the "WHEN" of it, though. = ) (read again where I quoted v.21 in previous post)


[I'll just add here: the "Amill-teachings" do not grasp the TWO DISTINCT "RAISE" issues in Acts 3, and therefore incorrectly conclude that "David's throne" has now RELOCATED up to HEAVEN. Again, this is based on their not grasping these TWO distinct "RAISE" issues in Acts 3... 1) His being raised to a position of prominence BEFORE the Cross (His earthly ministry for three-plus years--vv.22,26); 2) His being raised from the dead AFTER the Cross (obviously; v.15); "Amill-teachings" BLUR THESE DISTINCTIONS and thus miss the import and meaning of this passage in Acts 3]

My friend, I was taught those things at first, as you are trying to portray them. I have found that system to falsely fragment the scriptures. Amill is a cousin, but I am firmly Postmillenial. You started fragmenting Jesus words when trying to suggest raising IT up was different. I did not say anything, because I believe you are sincere and trying to come to truth.
Acts15:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Fulfilled in the Gospel of the Kingdom, here and now...not future/ Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem;

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Mt.25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Does This help? It is the last day.

Thanks for responding.

In this entire passage (vv.31-46), I don't see evidence of anyone being "resurrected [from the dead]".

I see "the nations" being SEPARATED, but no persons being "resurrected" (using any related word to even hint at it).






Same in Matt13, ON WHICH passage their Question of Him in Matt24:3 He was RESPONDING to (in 2 chpts), WAS BASED--example: wheat and tares both grow ON THE EARTH *until* the harvest... (it would seem to be ill-fitting for someone to harvest "long-dead" crops and weeds, and doesn't seem to be the image portrayed here)

 

[Iconoclast]

Thanks for responding.

In this entire passage (vv.31-46), I don't see evidence of anyone being "resurrected [from the dead]".

I see "the nations" being SEPARATED, but no persons being "resurrected" (using any related word to even hint at it).






Same in Matt13, ON WHICH passage their Question of Him in Matt24:3 He was RESPONDING to (in 2 chpts), WAS BASED--example: wheat and tares both grow ON THE EARTH *until* the harvest... (it would seem to be ill-fitting for someone to harvest "long-dead" crops and weeds, and doesn't seem to be the image portrayed here)

Ok my friend, we have interacted, keep considering what was offered, thanks for your input.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ [to go with my last post] In Mathew 25:31-46,

--the SHEEP (of the nationS) are called "ye BLESSED of My Father" (corresponding w/about 8 other "BLESSED" passages speaking to this point in the chronology and circumstances);


--the GOATS (of the nationS) are called "ye CURSED";




--however, "the LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN" are NOT the ones BEING "separated"




____________

@Iconoclast , thanks for the discussion! = ) (just now seeing your last post, above)

 

[Iconoclast]

Thanks for responding.

In this entire passage (vv.31-46), I don't see evidence of anyone being "resurrected [from the dead]".

I see "the nations" being SEPARATED, but no persons being "resurrected" (using any related word to even hint at it).



Same in Matt13, ON WHICH passage their Question of Him in Matt24:3 He was RESPONDING to (in 2 chpts), WAS BASED--example: wheat and tares both grow ON THE EARTH *until* the harvest... (it would seem to be ill-fitting for someone to harvest "long-dead" crops and weeds, and doesn't seem to be the image portrayed here)

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The End of this world, are you sure there is no one raised on :the Last Day?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"The End of this world,"

--My response: BOTH Matthew 24:3 and the Matthew 13 text UPON WHICH their question to Him in v.3 WAS BASED, are speaking to the issue of "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" (which is followed immediately by "the age [singular] to come" that in Matthew 12:32 Jesus HAD ALREADY SPOKEN to them concerning (i.e. what we now label "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age," which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19).



They understood correctly the "WHAT" of it, they just did not grasp the "WHEN" (hence their LATER question of Him in Acts 1 which question concerned its TIMING, not its NATURE)