Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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PaulThomson

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What I do know from the Exodus account I posted in my argument, which you haven't really read but only "scanned". I do know God sent Moses on a rescue mission to rescue hundreds of thousands of Hebrews who were for the most part as idolatrous as their Egyptian captors. I do know that there is no text in the Exodus narrative itself that teaches that the Hebrews sought after God. And I do know that God, once again, sought after a bunch of sinners. God himself said he would "come down". Good enough for me to make some very logical inferences and conclusions
In your theology, did God accidentally save a mixed multitude with the Israelites that he had not intended to save? Or was it always His intention to deliver out of Egypt both Israelites and many other races?
 

Rufus

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Job 34:10 Therefore hearken to me, you men of understanding: far be it from God, that He should do wickedness: and from the Almighty, that He should commit iniquity....

12 Yea, surely God wil not do wickedly, neither will the Almigty pervert judgment.
Right! And he won't because he CAN'T!

What part of "essence" don't you understand?
 

Rufus

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In your theology, did God accidentally save a mixed multitude with the Israelites that he had not intended to save? Or was it always His intention to deliver out of Egypt both Israelites and many other races?
Well...we don't know if he never intended to save the "mixed multitude" given the promises God made to Abraham about such "mixed multitudes". ;)
 

Rufus

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So, you are agreeing with my interpretation of the semantic range of my three similarly structured sentence about bad apples and frozen men and fear of spiders, but you are denying that the same semantic and grammatical rules apply to the Bible, simply because applying the normal rules of English grammar and syntax to the Bible would allow the Bible to contradict your own theology.

"Because you say that you see, your sin remains."
No, I didn't say that.

Give me your interpretation of Jesus' remarks.
 

PaulThomson

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That's the flower petal theory...he loves me, he loves me not. The God theory is...He loves me.
God can love someone and let them abandon Him. Allowing someone to leave is not to stop loving them. God's love is constant. God is love. You misconstrue my position,.

If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it is yours. If it doesn't, it never was.
 

Cameron143

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God can love someone and let them abandon Him. Allowing someone to leave is not to stop loving them. God's love is constant. God is love. You misconstrue my position,.

If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it is yours. If it doesn't, it never was.
God indeed could, but He says He doesn't.
 

PaulThomson

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Well...we don't know if he never intended to save the "mixed multitude" given the promises God made to Abraham about such "mixed multitudes". ;)
But you claimed God sent Moses to save only the Israelites.

As a reminder, the parallels between the types and antitypes will be limited to the more salient points that will more directly support and highlight my argument, which, again, is to show that Moses (a type of Christ) was sent to "save" only the ancient Hebrews in Egypt, which were God's elect by virtue of His covenant with Abraham wherein He promised the patrriarch that He would make a great nation out of him; and to also show that God's "firstborn" (Ex 4:22; 7:1)
 

PaulThomson

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No, I didn't say that.

Give me your interpretation of Jesus' remarks.
I already have.

Before I repeat them, first give me your interpretation of the sentences I constructed that you ignored and that are exactly like Jesus' remarks.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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God can love someone and let them abandon Him. Allowing someone to leave is not to stop loving them. God's love is constant. God is love. You misconstrue my position,.

If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it is yours. If it doesn't, it never was.
And God IS also Just!
But you claimed God sent Moses to save only the Israelites.
He did. He sent Moses to save his firstborn! But given God's promises to Abraham, why couldn't those firstborn have also included Gentiles? After all, both Jewish and Gentile believers, are children of Abraham.

Do you recall how the Greater Moses was sent "only" to the Jews -- in other words, He was sent first to the Jews then to all others. Likewise, Moses was sent "first" to Abraham's physical descendants but ended up leading out of bondage Gentiles, as well.
 

Rufus

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I already have.

Before I repeat them, first give me your interpretation of the sentences I constructed that you ignored and that are exactly like Jesus' remarks.
Give it to me again. Maybe you'll convince me.
 

Cameron143

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Where does God say He prevents his children leaving Him?
I'm not sure you understand what it is to...be in Christ. There is a spiritual transaction that takes place wherein the Spirit baptizes an individual INTO Christ. The reason why a believer is secure is because only God can place one into Christ. It would require an unbaptism of sorts by the Spirit to remove an individual from being in Christ. When Jesus says we are safe in His and the Father's hands, is because there is no unbaptism of the Spirit.
 

PaulThomson

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Right! And he won't because he CAN'T!

What part of "essence" don't you understand?
The parable of the lost sheep. Also see Jesus' prayer in John 17.
If you won't type in the texts that you believe make your point, you are not really serious about having a dialogue. you are just jabbing.
 

Rufus

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But you claimed God sent Moses to save only the Israelites.
But don't forget either that Egypt is a type of World that was run by the "god of this world" (Pharaoh). So, Moses definitely was not sent to Egypt to rescue her per se...but that doesn't mean he wouldn't save others who were in bondage with the Hebrews and wanted to leave.

Do you recall Jesus praying for two different groups of elect in John 17, while explicitly omitting the world that hates him and his chosen people?
 

Rufus

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If you won't type in the texts that go with your references, you are not really serious about having a dialogue. you are just jabbing.
Oh...you mean you're not as familiar with the scriptures as you like to pretend you are? Try Luke 15:1-7.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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And God IS also Just!


He did. He sent Moses to save his firstborn! But given God's promises to Abraham, why couldn't those firstborn have also included Gentiles? After all, both Jewish and Gentile believers, are children of Abraham.

Do you recall how the Greater Moses was sent "only" to the Jews -- in other words, He was sent first to the Jews then to all others. Likewise, Moses was sent "first" to Abraham's physical descendants but ended up leading out of bondage Gentiles, as well.
So you are recanting on your opening paragraph, which I cited. Maybe you need to re-write it and post now your amended version.