There will be no Rapture!!!
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What's wonderful is that we don't need that ANY man teach us because of this promise:
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Teaching from men can be a good thing, driving us all to the scriptures and seeking Holy Spirit for His instruction. That's what Paul commended the Bereans for having done. Those who take offense at another not taking their word for what scripture says, they are like unto the Judaizers of Paul's day who were corrupting doctrines and demanding the churches all listen to THEM rather than to Paul's inspired teachings.
None of us are left to flounder around in blindness. This promise John wrote to us about takes away any and all excuses for anyone believing the lies of men.
MM
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Teaching from men can be a good thing, driving us all to the scriptures and seeking Holy Spirit for His instruction. That's what Paul commended the Bereans for having done. Those who take offense at another not taking their word for what scripture says, they are like unto the Judaizers of Paul's day who were corrupting doctrines and demanding the churches all listen to THEM rather than to Paul's inspired teachings.
None of us are left to flounder around in blindness. This promise John wrote to us about takes away any and all excuses for anyone believing the lies of men.
MM
LOL, Yet you want everyone here to accept your teaching( a man) that you say you got from God that no one else has been able to receive. You are not a prophet. You assume much about others.
1 John 2;27 you did not even keep in context read before and after :
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. (Contextually, that is all who is in Christ)
21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. (what did they hear from the beginning?)
If what you heard from the beginning abides in you,
you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
So you do not need anyone to teach you because John said, " I have written to you." There for ABIDE in you what you have Heard from the Beginning, which was What John wrote to them.
If you hold to the word of God, you will not be decieved.
1 John 2;27 you did not even keep in context read before and after :
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. (Contextually, that is all who is in Christ)
21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. (what did they hear from the beginning?)
If what you heard from the beginning abides in you,
you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
So you do not need anyone to teach you because John said, " I have written to you." There for ABIDE in you what you have Heard from the Beginning, which was What John wrote to them.
If you hold to the word of God, you will not be decieved.
Yesterday, Musicmaster "Liked" (and I assume "agreed" with) your Post #2097 ( https://christianchat.com/threads/there-will-be-no-rapture.212356/post-5314491 ), because (as I assume--by what I've read of each of your Posts) at that point you two were both "on the same page" (correct me if I'm mistaken on that).
The very next post (Musicmaster's Post #2098), I believe you PERHAPS mis-read his opening line there and therefore [again, PERHAPS] misunderstood the purpose of that entire post of his... which you then believed merited your "Red-X" of "disagreement" (even though you two were "on the same page").
Of course, you are entirely free to give "Red-X's" wherever you disagree with any poster. I'm just pointing out how PERHAPS you've mis-read / mis-understood what he was actually conveying in a certain post which has subsequently colored how you see the rest of his posts.
Could this be the case? I'm having trouble finding any other explanation for this. = )
The very next post (Musicmaster's Post #2098), I believe you PERHAPS mis-read his opening line there and therefore [again, PERHAPS] misunderstood the purpose of that entire post of his... which you then believed merited your "Red-X" of "disagreement" (even though you two were "on the same page").
Of course, you are entirely free to give "Red-X's" wherever you disagree with any poster. I'm just pointing out how PERHAPS you've mis-read / mis-understood what he was actually conveying in a certain post which has subsequently colored how you see the rest of his posts.
Could this be the case? I'm having trouble finding any other explanation for this. = )
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Thank you for your post,
I will also reevaluate what I posted, including RED X. However, I did take issue with his ( IMHO), which is insulting to those who see the Teaching of the Taking of the church before the Tribulation period in the word of God. To refer to that as garbage and vomit will not establish one as a teacher. Nor will one be willing to hear what you have to say.
Would you mind perhaps re-phrasing this ^ sentence? I'm not able to discern your actual intended meaning here (possibly due to an incomplete sentence somewhere in the middle??)
Musicmaster is "pre-trib" (at least I seem to recall that he is! LOL)
That's why I *THINK* perhaps you mis-read the opening line of his Post #2098...
Musicmaster is "pre-trib" (at least I seem to recall that he is! LOL)
That's why I *THINK* perhaps you mis-read the opening line of his Post #2098...
He said :
Musicmaster
"The fairy tale of the pre-trib rapture originating with the Dispensational Movement around 1830, it is pure garbage vomited by the arm chair experts who reign over nothing scholastic. "
I do not think he holds to the Pretrib rapture
^
In his Post #2098, he wasn't saying that "pre-trib teaching" is what he's against.
He was saying he's against the claim that this "teaching [pre-trib]" only started in the 1800's and thus those others (claiming this as fact) are wrong.
Musicmaster himself is pre-trib.
What he was saying in his Post #2098 (opening line) is that people have "made up" the lie that "pre-trib" teaching only started in the 1800's (but which he DISAGREES that this is the case).
In his Post #2098, he wasn't saying that "pre-trib teaching" is what he's against.
He was saying he's against the claim that this "teaching [pre-trib]" only started in the 1800's and thus those others (claiming this as fact) are wrong.
Musicmaster himself is pre-trib.
What he was saying in his Post #2098 (opening line) is that people have "made up" the lie that "pre-trib" teaching only started in the 1800's (but which he DISAGREES that this is the case).
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Actually, I do hold to the pre-trib rapture. In that statement of mine that you quoted, I was addressing those who see the pre-trib rapture as allegedly having originated from Darby in the 19th century, itself as being nothing more than a fairy tale. Therefore the reason for my showing historic belief in the pre-trib rapture dating back to a number of the first century "church fathers."
Perhaps I could have worded it differently for clarity, for I didn't foresee it as being so misunderstood. When typing, with my typing time being limited, I tend to tap out my thoughts, even when they are convoluted, so if something doesn't sound quite on par, I don't mind people asking for clarification.
No harm done, though. I don't take anything seriously in these forums since they are merely discussions, interspersed throughout with personal attacks from others who don't understand the fallacies of ad hominem, circular reasoning errors, and a host of other problems arising from their no having studied logical fallacies, formal fallacies, et al.
One such prime example of downright irrationality in reason is when I point out to some the utter absence of any mention of the Church throughout all the chapters of Revelation outlining the events of the tribulation, to which the detractor generally resorts to claiming that the "saints" mentioned throughout ARE the Church. They fail to take into account that the mention of the "saints" all the way to the end of the tribulation will force them into the corner of post-trib, and that's generally where they deteriorate in their reasonings down in the gutters of completely irrational come-backs and table-turning, slight of hand tricks. Steven Anderson, a rather well-known character on the web, is one such renegade who does this very thing while vomiting his pre-wrath nonsense.
He nearly went into convulsions when I point out to him:
Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
His tactical arsenal is generally populated with reactions of exasperation, in that we pre-tribbers allegedly can't see the difference between "mere" wrath and "great wrath," which is one of his inventions as THE dividing line where the rapture allegedly takes place in his eschatology. What he hated even more is my pointing out that more than half the world's population is killed in just the first half. His denials of that only betrayed his being mathematically challenged.
So, thank you for re-reading my posts to see where I stand.
Much appreciated.
MM
Perhaps I could have worded it differently for clarity, for I didn't foresee it as being so misunderstood. When typing, with my typing time being limited, I tend to tap out my thoughts, even when they are convoluted, so if something doesn't sound quite on par, I don't mind people asking for clarification.
No harm done, though. I don't take anything seriously in these forums since they are merely discussions, interspersed throughout with personal attacks from others who don't understand the fallacies of ad hominem, circular reasoning errors, and a host of other problems arising from their no having studied logical fallacies, formal fallacies, et al.
One such prime example of downright irrationality in reason is when I point out to some the utter absence of any mention of the Church throughout all the chapters of Revelation outlining the events of the tribulation, to which the detractor generally resorts to claiming that the "saints" mentioned throughout ARE the Church. They fail to take into account that the mention of the "saints" all the way to the end of the tribulation will force them into the corner of post-trib, and that's generally where they deteriorate in their reasonings down in the gutters of completely irrational come-backs and table-turning, slight of hand tricks. Steven Anderson, a rather well-known character on the web, is one such renegade who does this very thing while vomiting his pre-wrath nonsense.
He nearly went into convulsions when I point out to him:
Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
His tactical arsenal is generally populated with reactions of exasperation, in that we pre-tribbers allegedly can't see the difference between "mere" wrath and "great wrath," which is one of his inventions as THE dividing line where the rapture allegedly takes place in his eschatology. What he hated even more is my pointing out that more than half the world's population is killed in just the first half. His denials of that only betrayed his being mathematically challenged.
So, thank you for re-reading my posts to see where I stand.
Much appreciated.
MM
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Actually, I do hold to the pre-trib rapture. In that statement of mine that you quoted, I was addressing those who see the pre-trib rapture as allegedly having originated from Darby in the 19th century, itself as being nothing more than a fairy tale. Therefore the reason for my showing historic belief in the pre-trib rapture dating back to a number of the first century "church fathers."
Perhaps I could have worded it differently for clarity, for I didn't foresee it as being so misunderstood. When typing, with my typing time being limited, I tend to tap out my thoughts, even when they are convoluted, so if something doesn't sound quite on par, I don't mind people asking for clarification.
No harm done, though. I don't take anything seriously in these forums since they are merely discussions, interspersed throughout with personal attacks from others who don't understand the fallacies of ad hominem, circular reasoning errors, and a host of other problems arising from their no having studied logical fallacies, formal fallacies, et al.
One such prime example of downright irrationality in reason is when I point out to some the utter absence of any mention of the Church throughout all the chapters of Revelation outlining the events of the tribulation, to which the detractor generally resorts to claiming that the "saints" mentioned throughout ARE the Church. They fail to take into account that the mention of the "saints" all the way to the end of the tribulation will force them into the corner of post-trib, and that's generally where they deteriorate in their reasonings down in the gutters of completely irrational come-backs and table-turning, slight of hand tricks. Steven Anderson, a rather well-known character on the web, is one such renegade who does this very thing while vomiting his pre-wrath nonsense.
He nearly went into convulsions when I point out to him:
Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
His tactical arsenal is generally populated with reactions of exasperation, in that we pre-tribbers allegedly can't see the difference between "mere" wrath and "great wrath," which is one of his inventions as THE dividing line where the rapture allegedly takes place in his eschatology. What he hated even more is my pointing out that more than half the world's population is killed in just the first half. His denials of that only betrayed his being mathematically challenged.
So, thank you for re-reading my posts to see where I stand.
Much appreciated.
MM
Perhaps I could have worded it differently for clarity, for I didn't foresee it as being so misunderstood. When typing, with my typing time being limited, I tend to tap out my thoughts, even when they are convoluted, so if something doesn't sound quite on par, I don't mind people asking for clarification.
No harm done, though. I don't take anything seriously in these forums since they are merely discussions, interspersed throughout with personal attacks from others who don't understand the fallacies of ad hominem, circular reasoning errors, and a host of other problems arising from their no having studied logical fallacies, formal fallacies, et al.
One such prime example of downright irrationality in reason is when I point out to some the utter absence of any mention of the Church throughout all the chapters of Revelation outlining the events of the tribulation, to which the detractor generally resorts to claiming that the "saints" mentioned throughout ARE the Church. They fail to take into account that the mention of the "saints" all the way to the end of the tribulation will force them into the corner of post-trib, and that's generally where they deteriorate in their reasonings down in the gutters of completely irrational come-backs and table-turning, slight of hand tricks. Steven Anderson, a rather well-known character on the web, is one such renegade who does this very thing while vomiting his pre-wrath nonsense.
He nearly went into convulsions when I point out to him:
Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
His tactical arsenal is generally populated with reactions of exasperation, in that we pre-tribbers allegedly can't see the difference between "mere" wrath and "great wrath," which is one of his inventions as THE dividing line where the rapture allegedly takes place in his eschatology. What he hated even more is my pointing out that more than half the world's population is killed in just the first half. His denials of that only betrayed his being mathematically challenged.
So, thank you for re-reading my posts to see where I stand.
Much appreciated.
MM
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That's very big of you, and I appreciate you hearing me out and following up by investigating it. = )
Thank you both for clarifying your positions and correcting any misunderstandings between you.
I appreciate this very much. = )
[let me just add... it is a very easy thing on discussion boards to read quickly and mistake another's intended meanings... we all do this at times! Glad this one has been resolved quickly. Thank you again, both of you! = ) ]
So, thank you for re-reading my posts to see where I stand.
Much appreciated.
MM
Much appreciated.
MM
I appreciate this very much. = )
[let me just add... it is a very easy thing on discussion boards to read quickly and mistake another's intended meanings... we all do this at times! Glad this one has been resolved quickly. Thank you again, both of you! = ) ]
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? a 'fairy tale' that agrees with the op?: there will be no rapture?
Precious friends:
Is this not slandering God's Pure and Perfect Word, Where
there are still Three future raptures to come?:
1) our own Great GRACE Departure!
+
2) two witnesses "ascended up to heaven" (Rev 11:11-12 KJV), And:
3) 144,000 "sealed on earth" (Rev 7:4-8 KJV), and then "redeemed
from the earth, And found before *The Throne Of God" (14:3-5 KJV)
Amen.
Precious friends:
Is this not slandering God's Pure and Perfect Word, Where
there are still Three future raptures to come?:
1) our own Great GRACE Departure!
+
2) two witnesses "ascended up to heaven" (Rev 11:11-12 KJV), And:
3) 144,000 "sealed on earth" (Rev 7:4-8 KJV), and then "redeemed
from the earth, And found before *The Throne Of God" (14:3-5 KJV)
Amen.
I've often mused over the concept of the Church allegedly having to suffer through some or most of the tribulation, all of which is the wrath of the Lamb poured out upon ALL who are on the face of the earth at that time. What I wonder, do people who believe they will be here for some or most of the tribulation have a guilty conscience? Do they believe that they DESERVE to go through some, most or all of it? Why would the Lord redeem us, and yet batter His beloved with His wrath.
As an Israeli, I can understand my own people being on the brunt end of the Lamb's wrath for our having been chosen and yet reject the very One who chose us to be His people of promise through our father Abraham. Our forefathers promised to obey the Law, and yet we broke it in just a matter of days after making the promise to do ALL the Law.
It just seems strange to me that anyone would denigrate their worth and value before the Lord to think that He desires to pour out His wrath upon all of the living objects of His unfathomable love.
MM
As an Israeli, I can understand my own people being on the brunt end of the Lamb's wrath for our having been chosen and yet reject the very One who chose us to be His people of promise through our father Abraham. Our forefathers promised to obey the Law, and yet we broke it in just a matter of days after making the promise to do ALL the Law.
It just seems strange to me that anyone would denigrate their worth and value before the Lord to think that He desires to pour out His wrath upon all of the living objects of His unfathomable love.
MM
Like I said, those who want to remain here, the Lord may very well allow them to remain if they so desire to try remaining among the one out of every two people who will be killed in just the first half of the tribulation. Go for it.
What's slanderous is to steal the "blessed hope" from others who look to that blessed deliverance from all that death that will be the result of the wrath of the Lamb.
Those who think they can withstand His wrath in their own strength, that's the height of pride and arrogance from how I see it, and it stabs at the love the Lord have for His Church.
MM
What's slanderous is to steal the "blessed hope" from others who look to that blessed deliverance from all that death that will be the result of the wrath of the Lamb.
Those who think they can withstand His wrath in their own strength, that's the height of pride and arrogance from how I see it, and it stabs at the love the Lord have for His Church.
MM
Far too many people just don't get this:
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
That doesn't say THROUGH, but FROM the wrath. The only wrath poured out in the tribulation of the wrath of the Lamb. There is persecution and murder at the hands of the man of sin, but the wrath has only ONE Origin, and that is the Lamb ALONE who will be worthy to break those seals, not the son of perdition or his false prophet.
MM
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
That doesn't say THROUGH, but FROM the wrath. The only wrath poured out in the tribulation of the wrath of the Lamb. There is persecution and murder at the hands of the man of sin, but the wrath has only ONE Origin, and that is the Lamb ALONE who will be worthy to break those seals, not the son of perdition or his false prophet.
MM