There will be no Rapture!!!

[FollowerofShiloh]

Yes, I've seen this misapplication of the day and thousand years nonsense before, and will continue to see it from those who love ripping things from their contexts.

I see, just because the Bible blatantly reads: The Beheaded come back to life and Reign with Christ for 1,000 years because it doesn't fit your """truths""" it's nonsense? We should not take the Bible for what it plainly states but should only accept verses where they have been skewed into saying things they really do not? I understand your views perfectly I see.

First of all, where did I ever say anything about a wedding ceremony? You yammer about me speaking idle words, and then you turn right around and do exactly what you accuse me of having done. Dude, you really need to work on consistency skills.

That's the entire claim for a pre-trib Rapture is the Marriage Supper.
And that claim also goes into detail it's only 7 years long, ends when Tribulation ends.

So you are just pre-trib and not part of the marriage supper crowd?

Nevertheless, where does it say it only lasts 7 years?

It could last 1 full day [1,000 years = 1 day]?

But that means it would not begin until the ending of Tribulation.

We have a confirmed 1,000 year period where the Church is not listed as doing anything. Seems like a perfect time for a marriage supper. I just want to know where in the BIBLE it shows it only lasts 7 years?

I mean, pre-tribbers twist everything else. Show me this twisted verse where it supposedly claims a max 7 year marriage supper at?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

That's the entire claim for a pre-trib Rapture is the Marriage Supper.
And that claim also goes into detail it's only 7 years long, ends when Tribulation ends.

"the marriage SUPPER / FEAST" is the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (or at least its inauguration);
its location is ON THE EARTH (following Christ's Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19).

It corresponds with the wording, "the MEAL [G347]" in Luke 12:36-37,38,40 (and its parallel), where that passage states, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." ... THEN "the MEAL [G347; see also Mt8:11 and parallel=the MK age]".





It is "the MARRIAGE" which pertains solely to the Church ("the Church which is His body"--aka the presently-"betrothed" Bride/Wife [singular], 2Cor11:2).

IOW, "our Rapture" is NOT for the purpose of "wedding SUPPER / FEAST" UP THERE. No.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

"the marriage SUPPER / FEAST" is the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (or at least its inauguration);
its location is ON THE EARTH (following Christ's Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19).





It is "the MARRIAGE" which pertains solely to the Church ("the Church which is His body"--aka the presently-"betrothed" Bride/Wife [singular], 2Cor11:2)

So it's for 1,000 years then or 1 day in example given by both David and Peter 1 day = 1,000 years?

And then we have the rest of Eternity to enjoy the Marriage?

 

[CS1]

The fairy tale of the pre-trib rapture originating with the Dispensational Movement around 1830, it is pure garbage vomited by the arm chair experts who reign over nothing scholastic. The Greek word "episunagoge," which is mentioned as the eschatological gathering of the faithful to Christ by:

Dionysius Alexandrinus (d. 264)
Eusebius’ historia ecclessiasticae.7.24.5,
Eusebius (d. 399), himself in demonstratio evangelica.2.3,
Cyrillus Alexandrinus (d. 444) in his commentarius in John.3.4.20

Metatithemi (to translate persons) is used to address the rapture by:

Clement of Rome (1st cent.), to describe Enoch’s rapture in his First Epistle to the Corinthians.9.3;
Irenaeus (d. 202), who says, “Enoch was translated, thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just and that those who were translated into Paradise, as a prelude to immortality will remain there until the completion of the age,” in his Against Heresies.5.5.1;

Methodius (d. 311) in his de resurrectione mortuorum.3.5, and
Hippolytus Thebanus (8th cent.) in his fragmenta.8c5 (both stating that a Christian’s immortality was to begin when their body was translated like Enoch’s);

Eusebius spoke of God figuratively translating Christians at the end of the age in his preparatio evangelica.7.8

The bankruptcy of uneducated claims for the pre-trib rapture of the Church NOT predating the 19th century, is known to be the fodder of wishful thinking injected into not only the Bible, but even into history itself. Many today deny the obvious, but they do so only at the expense to their own integrity.

MM

no, it did not. That was debunked some time ago. Yet you provide my point. Those who scoff mock and attack the teaching using terms like "pure garbage, vomited by the armchair experts who reign over nothing scholastic. "

It was The Lord Jesus who said in John 14:1- 4

1“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”


I know it is hard for some, But Jesus is the final Authority when He is speaking.

After the time of the apostles, a number of writings indicate belief in the imminence of Christ’s return, which is consistent with pre-tribulationism. Clement of Rome (35-101), Ignatius of Antioch (died 110), The Didache (a late first-century anonymous Christian treatise), The Epistle of Pseudo-Barnabas (circa 70-130), and The Shepherd of Hermas (second century) all reference Christ’s imminent return. Fathers were largely post-tribulational (because they believed the persecution they were enduring was the tribulation itself), they held to the doctrine of imminency. J. Barton Payne (a post-tribulationist) concluded that “belief in the imminence of the return of Jesus was the uniform hope of the early church.


Noticed I did not have to say "pure garbage or speak of vomit as you did with your immaturity.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

So it's for 1,000 years then or 1 day in example given by both David and Peter 1 day = 1,000 years?

And then we have the rest of Eternity to enjoy the Marriage?

"the MARRIAGE" itself (pertaining to the "Bride / Wife [SINGULAR]") precedes "the wedding SUPPER / FEAST" (pertaining to the INVITED "guestS [PLURAL]");

The marriage is forever, of course.





But just like it says in Genesis 2:22 (on the "6th day"): "and BROUGHT HER UNTO THE MAN" [think: "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM"]
this happens PRIOR TO "the 7th Day" [/ 7th Millennium], like I just said. ("and SO shall we ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord")




[you seem to want to CONFLATE "the MARRIAGE" itself with that of "the wedding SUPPER / FEAST"... like many tend to do]

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

"the MARRIAGE" itself (pertaining to the "Bride / Wife [SINGULAR]") precedes "the wedding SUPPER / FEAST" (pertaining to the INVITED "guestS [PLURAL]");

The marriage is forever, of course.





But just like it says in Genesis 2:22 (on the "6th day"): "and BROUGHT HER UNTO THE MAN" [think: "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM"]
this happens PRIOR TO "the 7th Day" [/ 7th Millennium], like I just said. ("and SO shall we ever be WITH [G4862] the Lord")




[you seem to want to CONFLATE "the MARRIAGE" itself with that of "the wedding SUPPER / FEAST"... like many tend to do]

We are already married.
We're just waiting for the supper.
1,000 years of celebration.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ I added a few words to my post (after you quoted it), jfyi.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

We're just waiting for the supper.
1,000 years of celebration.

During the tribulation period, this takes place: "[those (pl.)] HAVING BEEN INVITED TO the wedding SUPPER of the Lamb [/ the MK age]" (Rev19:9), speaking of the "guestS [plural]"

(distinct from "the Bride/Wife [singular]" v.7)






[btw, He is not "MARRYING" 10 or 5 virginS either! Matt25:1-13--Many want to conflate this also with "the MARRIAGE" itself. No!]

 

[Musicmaster]

I see, just because the Bible blatantly reads: The Beheaded come back to life and Reign with Christ for 1,000 years because it doesn't fit your """truths""" it's nonsense? We should not take the Bible for what it plainly states but should only accept verses where they have been skewed into saying things they really do not? I understand your views perfectly I see.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back for your inability/refusal to read what another actually said.

If you read what I actually stated, I spoke about the day=1000 years gig. Ripping that from its context in order to inject it into a context that is not similar in scope nor content, that's what I was addressing.

That's the entire claim for a pre-trib Rapture is the Marriage Supper.

Not to me it isn't. Maybe you have met others who rest their entire case on that, but that wasn't me.

And that claim also goes into detail it's only 7 years long, ends when Tribulation ends.

Again, you're attempt to draw me into that as it being the sole basis for my case, that's intellectually dishonest.

So you are just pre-trib and not part of the marriage supper crowd?

As a biblicist, I cannot say that I identify with that as the sole basis for my beliefs. I really have not even looked upon that as the core foundation for my eschatological stand.

Nevertheless, where does it say it only lasts 7 years?

There's no right answer to the wrong question.

It could last 1 full day [1,000 years = 1 day]?

Go for it. Embrace whatever you like.

I mean, pre-tribbers twist everything else. Show me this twisted verse where it supposedly claims a max 7 year marriage supper at?

(yawn) Yeah, yeah. I've seen all this already from others, and from you. Everybody else has twisted things...everybody but you, of course...

Whatever...

MM

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

^ I added a few words to my post (after you quoted it), jfyi.

We have the resurrected Dead [People before and after Jesus]
We have those from Rev 7 Tribulation Saints
We have those Beheaded who will Reign with Christ Rev 20
We have the final Gathering at the Second Coming

The Supper and Celebration won't begin until EVERYONE can be there.

 

[Musicmaster]

We are already married.
We're just waiting for the supper.
1,000 years of celebration.

Thus, our Jewish traditions goes down the drain...

MM

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back for your inability/refusal to read what another actually said.

If you read what I actually stated, I spoke about the day=1000 years gig. Ripping that from its context in order to inject it into a context that is not similar in scope nor content, that's what I was addressing.



Not to me it isn't. Maybe you have met others who rest their entire case on that, but that wasn't me.



Again, you're attempt to draw me into that as it being the sole basis for my case, that's intellectually dishonest.



As a biblicist, I cannot say that I identify with that as the sole basis for my beliefs. I really have not even looked upon that as the core foundation for my eschatological stand.



There's no right answer to the wrong question.



Go for it. Embrace whatever you like.



(yawn) Yeah, yeah. I've seen all this already from others, and from you. Everybody else has twisted things...everybody but you, of course...

Whatever...

MM

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Thus, our Jewish traditions goes down the drain...

MM

Having the Tradition is knowledge.
Being in Christ is the Promise.
The Messianics are joining us now.
And during the 2nd half of Tribulation, many Jewish Brothers and Sisters will also join us.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The Supper and Celebration won't begin until EVERYONE can be there.

I never stated otherwise.

I AGREE that ALL saints of ALL times will be present FOR "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER [/MK AGE]" (notice I mentioned "G347" in MATTHEW 8:11 and its parallel!)



I wouldn't necessarily write the LIST in the same manner you have written it (I INCLUDE the "24 elders" / representing the "raptured CHURCH WHICH IS HIS BODY" who will ALSO be present for the earthly MK age [/FEAST], when we return WITH Him to the earth FOR IT, Rev19).

"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] him in glory." Col3:4



[that FOLLOWS the 1Th3:13/4:17 thing (UP THERE)!]

We have the resurrected Dead [People before and after Jesus]
We have those from Rev 7 Tribulation Saints
We have those Beheaded who will Reign with Christ Rev 20
We have the final Gathering at the Second Coming

On another note (related), I see TWO groups mentioned in Rev20:4 -

--4a = STILL-LIVING saints at the END of the Trib yrs (corresponding with Daniel 7:22's wording);

--4b = "AND I saw..." refers to those who will have been KILLED during the SECOND HALF of Trib yrs, who will be resurrected (for the MK age)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I AGREE that ALL saints of ALL times will be present FOR "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER [/MK AGE]"

...and by the way, NO UNBELIEVERS will ENTER the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age (at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19).




Sure, later "children" will be BORN to those [saints] in mortal bodies who will have entered into the MK age... and those "children" (grandchildren etc) are not "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS" (these will be the ONLY ones susceptible to "death" in the MK age; death will be much more rare and will be reserved only for the rebellious); but "saints ONLY" are who will ENTER the MK age (i.e. "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER") when it commences upon His "RETURN" to the earth, Rev19


[several things, here, are problematic for the "post-trib Rapture" viewpoint]

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Looks like everyone is accounted for

 

[CS1]

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back for your inability/refusal to read what another actually said.

If you read what I actually stated, I spoke about the day=1000 years gig. Ripping that from its context in order to inject it into a context that is not similar in scope nor content, that's what I was addressing.



Not to me it isn't. Maybe you have met others who rest their entire case on that, but that wasn't me.



Again, you're attempt to draw me into that as it being the sole basis for my case, that's intellectually dishonest.



As a biblicist, I cannot say that I identify with that as the sole basis for my beliefs. I really have not even looked upon that as the core foundation for my eschatological stand.



There's no right answer to the wrong question.



Go for it. Embrace whatever you like.



(yawn) Yeah, yeah. I've seen all this already from others, and from you. Everybody else has twisted things...everybody but you, of course...

Whatever...

MM

" Arrogant, this one is. "

 

[Genez]

Many people believe that the church will go through the Great Tribulation.

That is because too many believers fail to keep seeking till they find genuinely good teachers.
For without growing in grace and Truth? They come under God's disproval and discipline/punishment.
That punishment makes them suffer for disobedience. not to suffer for righteousness sake.

When that kind of suffering God envelopes a believer's soul?
He will see life on earth as constant Tribulation.
That is why they will jump on the idea that we are all to go through the tribulation!

Yes.. We are to have trials. Yes, if we are growing in grace and truth.
But, the personal sufferings will end after we pass the test God seeks for us to overcome by grace and truth.

Then?
We will find ourselves having joy and peace while the world remains as what it is.
We will begin to share in God's happiness that overcomes the world...
And, the notion that we are in the time of the Tribulation dissolves as we begin to see the big picture unfold.
.
But, it takes sound doctrinal teachings and the transforming power of the Spirit to enter into such happiness
Out growing and overcoming the pains a believer who remains in weak teachings is trapped in.

“After you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his​

eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.” (1 Peter 5:10)​

We all must go through our own personal tribulation period as God planned for our life!

“Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, ​

because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.” James 1:2-3​

But, if we do well in God's eyes?
We are keeping on, learning sound doctrine as we should be seeking?
Being made able to understand such teachings as the hope of the Rapture?
Then the time of our personal suffering will be overturned and replaced by God's joy,
finding ourselves to our amazement sharing in God's happiness!

In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief ​

in all kinds of trials. These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—​

of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in ​

praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. ​

​

Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you ​

believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the ​

goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls." 1 Peter 1:6-9​

Those who see life on earth as a never ending Tribulation till the Lord returns, will remain suffering because
of failing to fulfill the purpose God requires of believers to enter into. That being..
Failing to gain his provision of having joy and inner prosperity while yet living in the Devil's world.


The Rapture that we are told about for our hope and comfort?
Those who are compulsively unhappy? They want others to join them.
They will tell you the Rapture is a false teaching...

Take note of them as you pass them by ......

And keep growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. ​

To Him be the glory both now, and to the day of eternity. Amen. 2 Peter 3:18​

Stay on the ship when you see others refusing the life preserver you may place before them.

Instead, grow in grace and truth till death, or when the Lord returns!

grace and peace ...............

 

[Musicmaster]

" Arrogant, this one is. "

Being to-the-point and concise is arrogance in your book?

Whatever...

MM

 

[CS1]

Being to-the-point and concise is arrogance in your book?

Whatever...

MM

and rude.