Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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Mem said:
That's the first step in beginning the process, the beginning of wisdom, accepting your heart is sick and needs to be, not only just a mending, but an entire replacement.
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This can only be done by faith. No fallen man possesses faith.
 
PaulThomson said:
What scripture says is that those who are perishing consider the gospel foolishness, and those who are being saved consider it the power of God. When someone begins to understand the gospel, they stop their movement downward into the murky waters that descend into complete destruction and begin to ascend towards the clear waters of salvation. You can be falling at any depth within the toxic disintegrating sludge of destruction when you start to reverse course and move toward the light coming from above through the clear waters of salvation. At that point, you become one who is "being saved". Being saved is not the same as fully saved. "Being saved" is "being in the process of becoming saved."

The difference between those who are sinking and perishing and those who are moving away from destruction toward the light, is that the sinking/perishing do not believe God loves them, but those aspiring upward and Godward have begun to recognise the love of God for sinners demonstrated in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Why are some of those perishing changing their minds about God, but others who are perishing are not? Those who change began to honestly assess their situation and realise it is dysfunctional and they begin to turn from that darkness in disgust. That shift of focus away from the dark depths below is automatically a refocus towards the lighter waters above, and that looks more attractive and hopeful than the slimy brackish hopeless darkness into which they had been descending.
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Right. But a person believes by faith. No natural man possesses faith.
 
Mem said:
Faith is all man has to "work" with. Why would you lead him to believe it to a useless endeavor?
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No he doesn't have faith or it wouldn't be necessary for salvation. It is produced by the word of God and the Spirit of God.
 
Cameron143 said:
Correct. And since it is impossible to please God apart from faith, fallen man never pleases God. He is evil continually. That's why he requires a new heart.
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In keeping with the context of the discussion, when does man receive this new heart from God?
 
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Cameron143 said:
No he doesn't have faith or it wouldn't be necessary for salvation. It is produced by the word of God and the Spirit of God.
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These work in (somebody give me the word, conjunction?) with man, the Word of God provides the opportunity (he otherwise would not have) to exercise it, and the Spirit of God seals the faith in him.
 
Mem said:
These work in (somebody give me the word, conjunction?) with man, the Word of God provides the opportunity (he otherwise would not have) to exercise it, and the Spirit of God seals the faith in him.
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Acts 2:37 suggests the Spirit works before man responds.
 
Mem said:
that is quite elaborating, js. It's just throwing out a scripture for your opponent to 'argue' with.

Ok, at least that's a crumb, ty.
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People believe truth generally when they draw their own conclusions.
 
Cameron143 said:
By this logic, salvation is a choice by man and not a gift of God.
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Nope.

Faith is faith and is found through out Greek literature.
People have all kinds of faith. The faith the person places in Christ Jesus for the gift of salvation is the faith that saves.
 
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