everything is predestined?

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CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#141
May 23, 2012
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#141
WannabeWinner said:
I tend to believe everything happens because it suppose to happen. What are your guys thoughts on that?
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Well, if one has a biblical worldview, everything is under God's control. How one tends to believe it is irrelevant, as God doesn't need one's approval or affirmation
 
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Niki7

Guest
#142
#142
The_old_guy said:
So, if we were dead in sin before we were alive with God's gift of the new birth, as Paul says, was there a time between our conception and our coming alive to God that we were alive and then died again?? Of course, Paul says that we were all dead to God before he made us alive. Apparently, Jeremiah and John the Baptist came alive in their mother's wombs. God can do that too, but most of us were born dead, as I was, since God didn't save me until I was 16, 65 years ago.

I agree with the rest of your response. You're right that Calvinism doesn't save us, but as much as it agrees with the inspired Scriptures, it is biblical. It was the most-correct biblical interpretation I had found when I joined the Christian Reformed Church in 1962 when I was 20.

Before then, I was christened a Methodist, became a member of a church that preached neo-Orthodox or liberal sermons at the age of 12, and attended a cult for 1 1/2 years that dismissed biblical doctrines like the Trinity until I encountered Calvinism's best interpretation at college. Now, I'm a member of an independent church that preaches the Good News and is growing abundantly.

You did notice that as you say, salvation is God's gift of grace through faith. I agree completely, and so does Calvinism. But the result is God-empowered good works that God has always prepared for us to do (verse 10). Mine in my old-age retirement from church ministry is to spread God's gospel-seeds on Facebook, X, and with my books (growingtoknowGod.org). May God bless your ministry for him.
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The_old_guy said:
I don't know; I'm relatively new.
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That's quite a mix. I prefer straight out of scripture and not a Calvinism/Gospel mashup :)
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#143
Oct 29, 2023
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#143
The_old_guy said:
Ephesians 2:1-3 says clearly that we are all born dead, that is, dead to God. Verses 4-9 say that God makes believers alive. The result is our good works (verse 10).
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It does not say clearly that we are all BORN dead, that is , dead to god.

2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

It merely SAYS that before being saved they were "dead in their transgressions and sins". Nothing about being born that way.
 
B

Burn1986

Active member
#144
Mar 4, 2024
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#144
WannabeWinner said:
I tend to believe everything happens because it suppose to happen. What are your guys thoughts on that?
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Obviously a bait thread.

On this board predestination is an excuse for laziness, complacency, and confusion.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#146
Jan 13, 2016
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#146
CS1 said:
Well, if one has a biblical worldview, everything is under God's control. How one tends to believe it is irrelevant, as God doesn't need one's approval or affirmation
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God may have ultimate dominion over of all things, but this doesn't mean that God is controlling all things. God's purpose will ultimately happen in the end as we read in Revelation 21-22, but many things that occur in daily life are not pleasing to him.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#147
May 23, 2012
13,112
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#147
John146 said:
God may have ultimate dominion over of all things, but this doesn't mean that God is controlling all things. God's purpose will ultimately happen in the end as we read in Revelation 21-22, but many things that occur in daily life are not pleasing to him.
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God may have? And it doesn't mean God is controlling all things?

That is your rationale, not the world of God.

Isaiah 45:6-7 - That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Psalms 115:3 - But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Isaiah 14:24 - The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

God is completely in control, even if he is not "controlling" or has not shown himself to be a tyrant. Everything is moving within the context of His will, and He has allowed the world to do what He said it would do (Matthew 24, Romans chapter 1).
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#148
Jan 13, 2016
17,162
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#148
CS1 said:
God may have? And it doesn't mean God is controlling all things?

That is your rationale, not the world of God.

Isaiah 45:6-7 - That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Psalms 115:3 - But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Isaiah 14:24 - The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

God is completely in control, even if he is not "controlling" or has not shown himself to be a tyrant. Everything is moving within the context of His will, and He has allowed the world to do what He said it would do (Matthew 24, Romans chapter 1).
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All great verses you posted. Maybe you took my post in a wrong manner. Yes, God has complete control over all things, but he is not controlling all things. Many things happen that is not pleasing to him. Will his end desire come to pass as we read in scripture? Absolutely. Not all things are the will of God. I step out of God's will for my life daily.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#149
May 23, 2012
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#149
John146 said:
All great verses you posted. Maybe you took my post in a wrong manner. Yes, God has complete control over all things, but he is not controlling all things. Many things happen that is not pleasing to him. Will his end desire come to pass as we read in scripture? Absolutely. Not all things are the will of God. I step out of God's will for my life daily.
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I agree with you that God allows things to be done that are not pleasing to him, yet there is the law of SIN, which is death. This means that God has attached the reward for sin to the action of sin.


Yes, you can violate his law and sin, but there is reaping that comes with that automatically. Therefore, He is still in control unless you repent and accept His Provision of Grace through Christ.
 
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