Scripture is what I presented. I see you stumble over it. You prefer going beyond and pretending you don't.
Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"
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nooooo… Before the foundation of the world, they were already pleasing to God. God knew them already and He knew they were faithful to Him. So God justified them and predestined them. . .
Romans 8:29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
selah
Your pretentions in the matter are utterly demolished effortlessly in just a few of passages.
And there are HUNDREDS more to back these up.
Mat 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Rev 2:22
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Act 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Gen 15:16
But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
God gave the land of Caanan at least 400 years to repent (more like 642). They did not. Then came the judgement.
Except for the Gibeonites. Who DID repent. They believed God (doubtless their spies had the Scriptures themselves!), recognized their CERTAIN DOOM, heeded God's warning, sued for peace, no conditions. Were acquitted, and secured a covenant of peace and life. Which they scrupulously maintained throughout their entire history. The most loyal and committed group of GENTILE believers in all of the Bible.
Bet you did not know any of that.......right @Cameron143 ?
Except for unfallen Adam and Eve, fallen Adam and Eve, unfallen Satan, fallen Satan, unfallen Angels, fallen Angels, and the Trinity.
Rev 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
I had a thought of gathering a pneumatic church (thinking of filled tires) before I realized that the very meaning of 'pneumatic is "relating to the spirit". Perhaps this is why the Adams hid when they 'realized' they were naked and were ashamed when before they had not been ashamed to be naked. Their nakedness was pneumatic in nature. They lacked the robes of Christ, and so were susceptible to the deception and temptation that Christ withstood.The phenomena is the natural man in need of a Spiritual rebirth. The real conundrum for me is the fact that man is a slave to sin due his fear of death. Was this true for Adam and Eve as well? They had a relationship with God but there is nothing in the text to suggest they were spiritually alive as one becomes when they partake of the Tree of Life/waters of life that Jesus offers, He being the true vine. They were of the natural world. Some also believe they had already eaten of the Tree of Life, and even that they would have had to in order to simply be alive, as if God's breath was not enough to sustain them as He sustains all life including those who are His enemies. Many claim the lie the serpent told was that they would be as God in knowing good and evil if they ate from the forbidden tree, but that was not the lie, for God agreed with that assessment following their disobedience. The lie was that they surely would not die, and we know that this lie is told to this very day. So the conundrum is, if they feared death, why not just eat from the Tree of Life? Surely there is more to it, which is alluded to in the verses that talk of the pride of life and lust of the flesh. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world. "When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it."
Genesis 2:17
How should we receive Jesus' declaration that He stands at the door and knocks? That for some those knocks are muted?
Oh its worse than that.
According to @Cameron143 and @Magenta ,
-God's offer of repentance is fraudulent
-repentance never actually occurs
-the repenters are the victim of an hoax and have actually been kidnapped
-the kidnap victims are headed to a shotgun wedding far beyond their choice or control
-those that God does NOT kidnap are the losers in the VIP kidnapping lottery
-these losers were created by God and then purposely abandoned, so that they will spend eternity in the lake of fire
In other words, they think that Holy God is a scheming tyrant, unjust judge, kidnapper with wholly nefarious attributes.
I have said no such thing. What you have presented is a slew of false accusations.
That you are incapable of properly understanding what is actually said comes
as no surprise given you reject all the Scriptures given for the very same reason.
Jesus’ words in John 6:65
Dead wrong.
Jesus has not entered, therefore the door remains shut.
When (and if) the door is shut......you are in deep trouble.
Do you have any idea what this parable means? I doubt it.
As is evidenced by the doctrine that you hold.
Mat 25:10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11
Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12
But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
That cv5 is an unrepentant liar is one of the main reasons I usually ignore him.
I found out he was an unrepentant liar when he continually refused to admit that a grown
adult man was not a little kid as he repeatedly called him. Certainly the story he wanted to
tell was better with his embellishments and false claims, but that should not be our motivation.
And yes, the fact that the story was about a grown adult male was pointed out to him.
Made no difference. He refused to back down from calling that man a little kid.
I found out he was an unrepentant liar when he continually refused to admit that a grown
adult man was not a little kid as he repeatedly called him. Certainly the story he wanted to
tell was better with his embellishments and false claims, but that should not be our motivation.
And yes, the fact that the story was about a grown adult male was pointed out to him.
Made no difference. He refused to back down from calling that man a little kid.
Vomited out is NOT saved....
Rev 3:16 - So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Which was the real problem with the Laodocean Church. They thought they were saved but were essentially pretenders.
Oh yes.....no oil either.
Mat 25:3 - They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
On the nature of man, he can still respond to believe or not, receive or reject the gospel. For Paul, it is the power of the gospel that men can be saved, and only those who believe it will be saved. Romans 1:16. Paul's preaching of the gospel is not with the wisdom of this world, it is the demonstration of Spirit and power! Cor. 2:4. so that one's faith should not stand in the wisdom, but in the power of God, hence, faith in the gospel causes one to be saved.
Man acts according to the condition of his heart. Matthew 12:34...out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. The natural heart finds the things of God to be foolish. He neither seeks after God or responds in faith apart from an enabling of God. He is at enmity with God. Salvation requires faith, and faith requires both the word of God and the Spirit of God.
Until the nature of the natural man is altered, he remains helpless. Hence, the necessity of salvation by grace.
Like the Gibeonites? Or not like the Gibeonites? I mean how exactly were these "natural man" Gibeonite gentile doomed Canaanites "altered"? When? At what point in time? By what mechanism?
How about Job?
So you saying that God is lying to Satan, and Satan's accusations are true?
You are telling us that in fact Job (by your standard somehow "altered" and "super-natural"), is "upright" ONLY BECAUSE
he won the VIP "altered" "super-natural" pre-birth lottery? And God is simply using Job as a "cut-out" in this debate?
Job 1:8
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 1:10
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
What is the ULTIMATE HEDGE????
Being saved before you are ever born. Being "programmed" for righteousness against your will before time began.
THAT is the ultimate hedge. And the lie of Satan.
BTW, God is in fact telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in verse 8.
And Satan is lying about......everything. Every word is a lie 100% of the time.
Tisk tisk Cameron, how dare you say that God must move first... You know very well there are people here who want to believe they did not need God's help at all like all those other poor people did.