Election teaches that salvation comes from the Lord.
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The person (Paul) who wrote: [1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
also wrote:
17 So, then, faith comes from what is heard, and that which is heard comes through the word of God
and
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
Proves:
It's always HEARING the Gospel then BELIEVING then FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT.
also wrote:
17 So, then, faith comes from what is heard, and that which is heard comes through the word of God
and
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
Proves:
It's always HEARING the Gospel then BELIEVING then FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT.
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[1Co 2:10, 12-14 KJV]
10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. ...
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. ...
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
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Some will say he is saved so it won't matter.
You cannot cast out demons in Jesus name without belief. Whenever there is belief there is salvation. It's impossible to prophesy in Jesus Name without being saved like Matthew 7 describes. But what Jesus said to them is the key. They were workers of iniquity. So He cast them into Eternal Damnation.
You cannot cast out demons in Jesus name without belief. Whenever there is belief there is salvation. It's impossible to prophesy in Jesus Name without being saved like Matthew 7 describes. But what Jesus said to them is the key. They were workers of iniquity. So He cast them into Eternal Damnation.
If God chooses who will be saved, and not saved in the beginning then how is His kingdom true love, and He is not evil to condemn people who have no choice but to reject the truth for they can see no other alternative.
You can program your computer to say I love you, but does your computer really love you, and you can program your computer to say I hate you, and will you be mad and smash your computer.
If we do not have a choice then we are robots that are programmed to accept, or reject the truth.
Also why would God be mad at the people that reject the truth if they have no choice, and why would He allow them to be born if they will be punished for they will reject the truth.
It goes against the nature of God.
If people are chosen to be saved in the beginning without their choice then why did God create the earth for what is the purpose of the earth seeing they are saved from the beginning, and have a robot mentality.
The earth serves no purpose with that circumstance, and all the suffering, and problems, and disappointments associated with earth did not have to happen for they are saved from the beginning, and will choose the truth without fail.
So what is the purpose of the earth if they are saved from the beginning.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
God said He wants all people to be saved, and does not want any person to perish.
So how did God choose who will be saved in the beginning, and the rest cannot be saved if He wants all people to be saved.
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the past for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
These were future events but were considered happening from the foundation of the world for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened.
Predestination means that God already had the plan of salvation in the beginning to give to mankind salvation in the future, so it is the same as if they have salvation in the beginning, and this salvation is to whoever wants this salvation which the Spirit and bride say Come, and anybody can have that salvation.
So all of Christianity should be saying that but many do not.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
If many are called, but few are chosen, and God chooses who will saved, and not saved, then why is He calling people that cannot be saved.
For if He chose in the beginning then He would only call people that are chosen, and He would not call people that are not chosen in the beginning to be saved.
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
Not too many people are called in these positions for their heart condition is not right in their love for people, and their behavior, for they love power and control, and to exalt themselves highly.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
The calling of God is without repentance on His part.
God chose us we did not choose Him.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.
When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work in their life to get them to the truth, and when they get to the door of truth they have to choose to enter for His kingdom is true love, but they would of not got to the door of truth unless God intervened in their life for the flesh will reject the truth for the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other.
And this truth is to acknowledge God, and Jesus as Lord and Savior, and allow the Spirit to lead you to be Christlike.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Which not all people allow the Spirit to lead them to be Christlike.
Which those led of the Spirit might sin but they will repent of the sin, and keep moving forward in the Spirit, but those not led of the Spirit will hold on to sin believing they are right with God, which they do not come to the truth, and they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.
You can program your computer to say I love you, but does your computer really love you, and you can program your computer to say I hate you, and will you be mad and smash your computer.
If we do not have a choice then we are robots that are programmed to accept, or reject the truth.
Also why would God be mad at the people that reject the truth if they have no choice, and why would He allow them to be born if they will be punished for they will reject the truth.
It goes against the nature of God.
If people are chosen to be saved in the beginning without their choice then why did God create the earth for what is the purpose of the earth seeing they are saved from the beginning, and have a robot mentality.
The earth serves no purpose with that circumstance, and all the suffering, and problems, and disappointments associated with earth did not have to happen for they are saved from the beginning, and will choose the truth without fail.
So what is the purpose of the earth if they are saved from the beginning.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
God said He wants all people to be saved, and does not want any person to perish.
So how did God choose who will be saved in the beginning, and the rest cannot be saved if He wants all people to be saved.
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the past for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
These were future events but were considered happening from the foundation of the world for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened.
Predestination means that God already had the plan of salvation in the beginning to give to mankind salvation in the future, so it is the same as if they have salvation in the beginning, and this salvation is to whoever wants this salvation which the Spirit and bride say Come, and anybody can have that salvation.
So all of Christianity should be saying that but many do not.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
If many are called, but few are chosen, and God chooses who will saved, and not saved, then why is He calling people that cannot be saved.
For if He chose in the beginning then He would only call people that are chosen, and He would not call people that are not chosen in the beginning to be saved.
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
Not too many people are called in these positions for their heart condition is not right in their love for people, and their behavior, for they love power and control, and to exalt themselves highly.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
The calling of God is without repentance on His part.
God chose us we did not choose Him.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.
When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work in their life to get them to the truth, and when they get to the door of truth they have to choose to enter for His kingdom is true love, but they would of not got to the door of truth unless God intervened in their life for the flesh will reject the truth for the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other.
And this truth is to acknowledge God, and Jesus as Lord and Savior, and allow the Spirit to lead you to be Christlike.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Which not all people allow the Spirit to lead them to be Christlike.
Which those led of the Spirit might sin but they will repent of the sin, and keep moving forward in the Spirit, but those not led of the Spirit will hold on to sin believing they are right with God, which they do not come to the truth, and they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of iniquity.’
You must be saved to cast out the Enemy [for the enemy to obey they know if you are saved or not], to prophesy in Jesus Name, and for your works to be considered GOOD.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of iniquity.’
You must be saved to cast out the Enemy [for the enemy to obey they know if you are saved or not], to prophesy in Jesus Name, and for your works to be considered GOOD.
If not chosen by God for salvation, then no one would become saved. It is either by grace or by works with no third option possible. If it were by works (which it could never be), then each of us would have to accomplished exactly what Christ did, which, of course, no one could achieve. With grace, however, nothing is required nor is possible from its beneficiaries in order to affect one's salvation - He gives it as a complete gift with no prerequisites associated to it, from His exceeding mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. Yet, He did not choose to give it to everyone. Given that no one deserves it at all, it was completely within God's divine prerogative, will, and good pleasure to bestow it upon whomsoever He chose to bestow it upon. Were it not so, then Christ could not be the Saviour, but He is the Saviour because He is the only one who saves, as the Bible makes abundantly clear. Therefore, it is not possible that man is able to save himself or a Saviour would not be needed.
The question you should actually be asking, is why God chose anyone unto salvation, as all are equally sinful and undeserving - with no one deserving of it.
[Rom 3:10-12, 18 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. ...
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[Jer 17:9-10 KJV]
9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, [and] according to the fruit of his doings.
The question you should actually be asking, is why God chose anyone unto salvation, as all are equally sinful and undeserving - with no one deserving of it.
[Rom 3:10-12, 18 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. ...
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[Jer 17:9-10 KJV]
9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, [and] according to the fruit of his doings.
God does not operate by "tearing top to bottom."
Just to place God's nature into the picture.
Like Adam's rib... When the Lord does surgery... He does so painlessly, and making it able to heal with no pain.
No tearing. Nothing torn...... God is always being the ultimate Master Surgeon.
No scar tissue is to be found at regeneration.
Just to place God's nature into the picture.
Like Adam's rib... When the Lord does surgery... He does so painlessly, and making it able to heal with no pain.
No tearing. Nothing torn...... God is always being the ultimate Master Surgeon.
No scar tissue is to be found at regeneration.
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I realize I should've put more detail into an explanation each point of my thesis, but my secular work wears me thin and leaves me drained of the energy, especially having to work with so many energy vampires.
God's work is seamless, yes indeed, and the end result is more beautiful than the beginning condition. However, I was speaking more toward how man's effort, that is a quack acting as His stand-in.
Nevertheless, I don't find it any sort of exercise in futility to go ahead and note any thoughts developing when it comes to such as that of understanding the way toward salvation. We bring ourselves to the master surgeon, once we realize we are sick unto death, and allow him to cut away all that He deems fit, in order to be healed.
But if we find ourselves at a point in examining His work (on others) and determine that He shouldn't have cut away that which He determined to, and try and reattach it ourselves... well, the frankensteinfurter reference was my attempt at the summary of the matter wrapped up in a hotdog...
God's work is seamless, yes indeed, and the end result is more beautiful than the beginning condition. However, I was speaking more toward how man's effort, that is a quack acting as His stand-in.
Nevertheless, I don't find it any sort of exercise in futility to go ahead and note any thoughts developing when it comes to such as that of understanding the way toward salvation. We bring ourselves to the master surgeon, once we realize we are sick unto death, and allow him to cut away all that He deems fit, in order to be healed.
But if we find ourselves at a point in examining His work (on others) and determine that He shouldn't have cut away that which He determined to, and try and reattach it ourselves... well, the frankensteinfurter reference was my attempt at the summary of the matter wrapped up in a hotdog...
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Joel 3 shows us before the Tribulation happens:
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh;
before the great and terrible day of HaShem (Messiah/Jesus) comes
All FLESH will witness God's Spirit before Tribulation happens.
Obviously, you do not KNOW your Bible!
So no one has to seek God because God will pour out his Spirit on ALL flesh, which did not happen in the Book of Acts.
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh;
before the great and terrible day of HaShem (Messiah/Jesus) comes
All FLESH will witness God's Spirit before Tribulation happens.
Obviously, you do not KNOW your Bible!
So no one has to seek God because God will pour out his Spirit on ALL flesh, which did not happen in the Book of Acts.
I realize I should've put more detail into an explanation each point of my thesis, but my secular work wears me thin and leaves me drained of the energy, especially having to work with so many energy vampires.
God's work is seamless, yes indeed, and the end result is more beautiful than the beginning condition. However, I was speaking more toward how man's effort, that is a quack acting as His stand-in.
Nevertheless, I don't find it any sort of exercise in futility to go ahead and note any thoughts developing when it comes to such as that of understanding the way toward salvation. We bring ourselves to the master surgeon, once we realize we are sick unto death, and allow him to cut away all that He deems fit, in order to be healed.
But if we find ourselves at a point in examining His work (on others) and determine that He shouldn't have cut away that which He determined to, and try and reattach it ourselves... well, the frankensteinfurter reference was my attempt at the summary of the matter wrapped up in a hotdog...
God's work is seamless, yes indeed, and the end result is more beautiful than the beginning condition. However, I was speaking more toward how man's effort, that is a quack acting as His stand-in.
Nevertheless, I don't find it any sort of exercise in futility to go ahead and note any thoughts developing when it comes to such as that of understanding the way toward salvation. We bring ourselves to the master surgeon, once we realize we are sick unto death, and allow him to cut away all that He deems fit, in order to be healed.
But if we find ourselves at a point in examining His work (on others) and determine that He shouldn't have cut away that which He determined to, and try and reattach it ourselves... well, the frankensteinfurter reference was my attempt at the summary of the matter wrapped up in a hotdog...
What He would not cut out was our volition, which the hotbed in the angelic conflict He has drafted us into.
He’s already on his throne is the idea in the heavenly ( spiritual ) realms in the new Jerusalem and many saints are there with him
“ But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? ….it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
…And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
1 Corinthians 15:34-35, 44-45, 47, 49-50 KJV
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
Luke 23:43
“The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; And his kingdom ruleth over all.”
Psalm 103:19 KJV
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
John 18:36
“And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.”
John 8:23 KJV
“He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
John 3:31-36 KJV
“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also “
“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
Mark 16:19 KJV
“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”
Colossians 3:1-3 KJV
“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:7-8, 10-11, 13 KJV
notice the apostles never speak of esrthly Jerusalem being restored or Jesus reigning in it for a thousand years it’s only seen in johns spiritual heavenly vision of apacolypse ? But the doctrine when they tell us what we’re waiting for is Jesus return when we’ll be changed if we’re still alive or raised up if we slept beforehand
See if Jesus is ruling on earth for a thousand years then why this ?
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 KJV
Jesus is in the new Jerusalem the reality of Gods promised land and in the end he will gather his people for the eternal things and destroy this one we see like Peter is explaining in chapter 3 of his second epistle above but we have a promised land that will eventually become the new creation when this one ends it’s already a kingdom with people
Redeemed from earth in heaven thoer spirits alive and well with Jesus
“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. …..But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
Hebrews 11:13, 16 KJV
“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV
I think ( just my belief ) Jesus kingdom is In Heaven and many are already with him reigning and rejoicing like revelation 12 shows us even while earth is being ran down by Satan and his beast and it’s inhabitants oppressed heaven is celebrated rating the kingdom after they had died on earth but they are rejoicing in heavens kingdom.
i think the ot prophecies we’re to be fulfilled in Jesus generation and the nt will be at his second coming the “ thousand year “ riegn I think is in heavens kingdom
“ But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? ….it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
…And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
1 Corinthians 15:34-35, 44-45, 47, 49-50 KJV
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
Luke 23:43
“The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; And his kingdom ruleth over all.”
Psalm 103:19 KJV
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
John 18:36
“And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.”
John 8:23 KJV
“He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
John 3:31-36 KJV
“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also “
“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
Mark 16:19 KJV
“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”
Colossians 3:1-3 KJV
“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:7-8, 10-11, 13 KJV
notice the apostles never speak of esrthly Jerusalem being restored or Jesus reigning in it for a thousand years it’s only seen in johns spiritual heavenly vision of apacolypse ? But the doctrine when they tell us what we’re waiting for is Jesus return when we’ll be changed if we’re still alive or raised up if we slept beforehand
See if Jesus is ruling on earth for a thousand years then why this ?
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 KJV
Jesus is in the new Jerusalem the reality of Gods promised land and in the end he will gather his people for the eternal things and destroy this one we see like Peter is explaining in chapter 3 of his second epistle above but we have a promised land that will eventually become the new creation when this one ends it’s already a kingdom with people
Redeemed from earth in heaven thoer spirits alive and well with Jesus
“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. …..But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
Hebrews 11:13, 16 KJV
“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV
I think ( just my belief ) Jesus kingdom is In Heaven and many are already with him reigning and rejoicing like revelation 12 shows us even while earth is being ran down by Satan and his beast and it’s inhabitants oppressed heaven is celebrated rating the kingdom after they had died on earth but they are rejoicing in heavens kingdom.
i think the ot prophecies we’re to be fulfilled in Jesus generation and the nt will be at his second coming the “ thousand year “ riegn I think is in heavens kingdom
What is missed too often by many who have yet to be shown what is needed...
There will be two different new heavens and earths.... Not only one.
The first new heavens and earth will be the Millennium.
It will be an earthly kingdom that the Lord and his chosen ones rules with an iron scepter.
Redeemed men with fallen natures will be the population of the earth while the Lord reigns over them.
The qualified members of the church in resurrection bodies (having no fallen nature) will co-reign with the Lord.
Just before the 1000 years comes to an end? Satan will be released from prison, and he will begin a rebellion
against the Lord and His people.
THEN IT IS WHEN! Satan will be thrown into the Lake of Fire....
And all unbelievers remaining, will also be removed from the population forever!
Then... Peter speaks of the last new heavens and earth. One to follow the first new heavens and earth!
2 Peter 3:10-13
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar;
the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be
laid bare.
Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be?
You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed
its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the
elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward
to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousnes.
I was very confused concerning this until my pastor pointed it out for us....
grace and peace ...............
There will be two different new heavens and earths.... Not only one.
The first new heavens and earth will be the Millennium.
It will be an earthly kingdom that the Lord and his chosen ones rules with an iron scepter.
Redeemed men with fallen natures will be the population of the earth while the Lord reigns over them.
The qualified members of the church in resurrection bodies (having no fallen nature) will co-reign with the Lord.
Just before the 1000 years comes to an end? Satan will be released from prison, and he will begin a rebellion
against the Lord and His people.
THEN IT IS WHEN! Satan will be thrown into the Lake of Fire....
And all unbelievers remaining, will also be removed from the population forever!
Then... Peter speaks of the last new heavens and earth. One to follow the first new heavens and earth!
2 Peter 3:10-13
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar;
the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be
laid bare.
Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be?
You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed
its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the
elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward
to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousnes.
I was very confused concerning this until my pastor pointed it out for us....
grace and peace ...............
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Error upon error. Once we start inserting a concept into the Text, every additional part of the Text has to be interpreted to support our initial error. It's very simple to do. And it is error.
You're copying from a certain systematic theological system. Thread after thread on this site merry-go-rounds this same battle with the same verses, but I've yet to see anyone discuss any of these verses in any depth. When I point out that the initial proof-texts do not say what they're proposed to be saying, rather than stopping and discussing those Scriptures in any depth whatsoever, the next step is rather to add more proof-texts, as if this process can replace actual discussion of Scripture.
This is a real problem that Christians are being taught to deal with Scripture in this fashion. Would you like to pause your process right here and get into this section of 1Cor2 and prove how it supports your theory, which is not really your theory? Maybe one or both of us will learn something.
I'll start:
One of my problems with the view that this proves a man must be born again/born from above before he can hear and learn and believe, is that, once again this is being read into this Scripture. Paul in context is speaking wisdom to mature Christians (2:6) about the things God has prepared for those who love Him (2:9) - the "deep things of God" that God's Spirit knows (2:10-13), etc. This is the context for 2:14. Then, by the time Paul gets to 3:1 he's saying he couldn't even teach these things to the young/infant Christians who could only drink milk - the basics of Scripture.
So, what Paul is talking about is wisdom only the mature in Christ could understand. Not even spiritually young Christians could understand it. Of course the unspiritual (the psuchikos man - the soulish man) could not understand it.
This does not say a man must be born again to receive the Gospel. It says neither the unbeliever nor the new Christian can understand the deep things of God that God has prepared for those who love Him. Paul could only teach this wisdom to the mature Christian, which he elsewhere refers to as the "spiritual Christian." Hebrews 5 speaks of the same concept of the infant vs. the mature in Christ in Spirit and provides a bit more detail about the difference between them.
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