Election teaches that salvation comes from the Lord.

[wolfwint]

If one day = 1,000 years given as example twice in the Bible then by Bible Logic 2,000 years = 2 days to God.

2 days to God seems pretty short to me.

But you cant see this as proof that it is so.
God anyway is out of time.
Jesus rose up at the 3rd day. Not 3000 years later.

 

[wolfwint]

Its helpful to read Paul and Peter together regarding subjects

“that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:2-4, 7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:38-39, 42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s part of the doctrine that he could come at any point. Just as they believed them we should believe now it presses us forward into repentance and diligence in Christ vigilance as we grow up

“Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:35-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Bible teaches believers an urgency towards repentance before it’s too late

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice this is summarizing key points of the gospel

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; ( the gospel teaches us this ) looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; ( also this tbat he’s coming back again )

who gave himself for us, ( and this also the gospels teach) that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”( indeed the lord also and his apostles teach this )
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭

I do not understand why you gave me this reply. I agree with you what you wrote.

 

[Cameron143]

Adam was the first man so no reason to use him.

Noah had a Great Grandfather named Enoch who was a preacher. Noah was living for God.

Abraham is Noah's great Grandson Interesting God used the lineage of Enoch). Book of Jasher says Abraham learned of God from Noah and Shem.

Saul was there listening to Stephen preach. He heard the Gospel.

The 3,000 was there because the Jewish Holiday so there would have been many people there no matter what.

What does any of this have to do with God approaching each one. Adam is a particularly good example as He hid from God, yet God sought after him anyway. And in every case, it is God who initiated relationship.

 

[wolfwint]

I agree. It is characteristic of the church age, if that is what you are implying.

Well, i would say the Adressat of Joel is Israel.
But he did not know anything about the church.
So for me it is logic that Joel2,28ff is fulfilled short before the Millennium, when Israel turns to Christ. And Jesus rules on his thron as it is prommissed.

 

[selahsays]

You have NO BIBLE to prove what you say and I have many scriptures to prove what I say.

Why should I believe you when you have NO BIBLE to back you but human reasoning?

Acts 2:37 is because they HEARD and believed like Acts 10 and Ephesians 1:13 claims that I HAVE PROVIDED to You!

Your usage of Acts 2:37 just PROVES my point!

Sis, Ephesians 1:13 says it clearly. …no need to get so upset.

In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

- Ephesians 1:11-14

 

[Cameron143]

Well, i would say the Adressat of Joel is Israel.
But he did not know anything about the church.
So for me it is logic that Joel2,28ff is fulfilled short before the Millennium, when Israel turns to Christ. And Jesus rules on his thron as it is prommissed.

Peter himself says in his sermon the day of Pentecost that what was occurring was what the prophet Joel prophesied. He quoted Joel 2:28.

 

[selahsays]

Peter himself says in his sermon the day of Pentecost that what was occurring was what the prophet Joel prophesied. He quoted Joel 2:28.

Joel 2:28 is prophetic of the end times.
"And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. "And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.

- Joel 2:28-32

 

[Cameron143]

Joel 2:28 is prophetic of the end times.

I agree. I simply believe it was referring to the end of the old covenant.

 

[selahsays]

I agree. I simply believe it was referring to the end of the old covenant.

…but what’s your timeline? I believe it’s future.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

But you cant see this as proof that it is so.
God anyway is out of time.
Jesus rose up at the 3rd day. Not 3000 years later.

Why can't I we are on God's time. We are waiting for Him to Return and He will when it's His time. And His time to Him is like a day or 2 because He is eternal.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

What does any of this have to do with God approaching each one. Adam is a particularly good example as He hid from God, yet God sought after him anyway. And in every case, it is God who initiated relationship.

Everyone you mentioned that God approached were already living for Him or had knowledge of Him.
Peter even addressed the 3,000 as they were the ones who killed Jesus. So they were living for God according to the Law. I see no one that God approached who knew nothing of God. They ALL knew of God. Make sense why He approached them.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Sis, Ephesians 1:13 says it clearly. …no need to get so upset.

In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

- Ephesians 1:11-14

Ephesians 1:13 is the verse I used for my point of view.

 

[Cameron143]

…but what’s your timeline? I believe it’s future.

While prophesy often has dual context, all prophesy is fulfilled ultimately in Christ. I don't believe the prophesy of Joel has duplicity, but even if one does, the greater fulfillment of it would be associated with Christ.
An example is the prophesies in Isaiah. While they were speaking of the time of the Babylonian captivity and God's deliverance of His people at that time through Cyrus, it was also speaking of the deliverance of deliverance of His people in the time of Christ.
Most people these days see the book of Revelation as future. But this doesn't fit with prophecy being fulfilled in Christ. Neither does it fit with what is actually occurring in the time of Christ and shortly thereafter.

The book of Revelation actually parallels the book of Deuteronomy. There is a reason for this. Deuteronomy initiates the covenant between God and Israel. Revelation ends the relationship between God and Israel.
In Deuteronomy:
Preamble
Historical prologue
Covenant stipulations
Covenant sanctions
Covenant succession
In Revelation:
Preamble
Historical prologue
Retelling of covenant stipulations
Retelling of covenant sanctions for failure to keep stipulations
Revealing of plan for covenant succession

If you know anything of history and the relationship of a king and his vassals, their agreement or pact was structured according to the covenant found in the book of Deuteronomy.

 

[Genez]

It was the fulfillment of Joel 2:28 on the day of Pentecost.

In the Greek Peter spoke with idiomatic speaking..

"This is the likes of..."

And, that is where we get in trouble without securing a good pastor teacher.
Those who find one by grace will learn and sit there amazed to see how easy it is not to get what is needed
by trying to bypass God's chain of command.

You must read Joel 2 and 3 to get all what Peter referred to. Pentecost shared a similar attribute to Joel's prophesy, but involved much more that does not apply to the church age.. and you will see we are nowhere like what Joel speaks of in its context.

Read it for yourself? Joel 2 speaks of the return of the Jewish age (right after the Rapture).
It speaks of the Tribulation period when God once again will uses Jews to be His representative people on earth!
Joel 2:1-10 speaks of the war of Armageddon! The Tribulation is a return to the Jewish age, not the Church.
144,000 Jewish young men will be utilized to evangelize the entire world in that day.

Then... the return of the Lord! Next chapter.

Joel 3 speaks of the restoration of Israel and the glorification of Jerusalem once more!
Joel in its exact context is not about the Church age. Peter was simply pointing out a similarity with Pentecost to show how God can operate in the spiritual realm. For at Pentecost the Jews could not figure out what was going on until Peter showed them in Joel how God can operate, and that the tongues that they were seeing (for the first time in Israel) is something that God can do!

We need truth to be made free.
We seek dogma to feel comfortable while still locked up.


In Christ.... grace and peace

 

[Cameron143]

Everyone you mentioned that God approached were already living for Him or had knowledge of Him.
Peter even addressed the 3,000 as they were the ones who killed Jesus. So they were living for God according to the Law. I see no one that God approached who knew nothing of God. They ALL knew of God. Make sense why He approached them.

That's simply a spurious connection. Abraham had no relationship with God. Regardless of his lineage, he was a heathen living amongst heathens. He may have known things about God, but he wasn't living in a vital and dependent relationship with God. Neither has anyone ever. You have simply convinced yourself that God responds to men rather than men who respond to God. And this because you do not understand the condition of fallen man.

 

[Magenta]

Sis

Eh?

 

[selahsays]

Ephesians 1:13 is the verse I used for my point of view.

So you do believe in predestination? Good!

 

[Cameron143]

In the Greek Peter spoke with idiomatic speaking..

"This is the likes of..."

And, that is where we get in trouble without securing a good pastor teacher.
Those who find one by grace will learn and sit there amazed to see how easy it is not to get what is needed
by trying to bypass God's chain of command.

You must read Joel 2 and 3 to get all what Peter referred to. Pentecost shared a similar attribute to Joel's prophesy, but involved much more that does not apply to the church age.. and you will see we are nowhere like what Joel speaks of in its context.

Read it for yourself? Joel 2 speaks of the return of the Jewish age (right after the Rapture).
It speaks of the Tribulation period when God once again will uses Jews to be His representative people on earth!
Joel 2:1-10 speaks of the war of Armageddon! The Tribulation is a return to the Jewish age, not the Church.
144,000 Jewish young men will be utilized to evangelize the entire world in that day.

Then... the return of the Lord! Next chapter.

Joel 3 speaks of the restoration of Israel and the glorification of Jerusalem once more!
Joel in its exact context is not about the Church age. Peter was simply pointing out a similarity with Pentecost to show how God can operate in the spiritual realm. For at Pentecost the Jews could not figure out what was going on until Peter showed them in Joel how God can operate, and that the tongues that they were seeing (for the first time in Israel) is something that God can do!

We need truth to be made free.
We seek dogma to feel comfortable while still locked up.


In Christ.... grace and peace

Right, I agree that the Jews were in view. It merely occurred in the 1st century. The early church underwent great persecution, the early church was populated with Jewish evangelists, the early church did begin in Jerusalem, then went to Judea, then Samaria, then the known world at that time. There was a first century rapture.
All the things you view as future actually occurred during the 1st century.
All the prophecies ultimately pointed to Christ and were fulfilled in Him in His time on earth and the intertestament period.
And I have an awesome pastor I have learned from for 30 years. Not only does he know far more than you, but the fruit of the Spirit actually attends him. You do seem smart and actually somewhat knowledgeable, but you seem little concerned that the fruit of the Spirit is little exercised in you.

 

[Genez]

Right, I agree that the Jews were in view. It merely occurred in the 1st century. The early church underwent great persecution, the early church was populated with Jewish evangelists, the early church did begin in Jerusalem, then went to Judea, then Samaria, then the known world at that time. There was a first century rapture.
All the things you view as future actually occurred during the 1st century.
All the prophecies ultimately pointed to Christ and were fulfilled in Him in His time on earth and the intertestament period.
And I have an awesome pastor I have learned from for 30 years. Not only does he know far more than you, but the fruit of the Spirit actually attends him. You do seem smart and actually somewhat knowledgeable, but you seem little concerned that the fruit of the Spirit is little exercised in you.

The early church was populated with Jewish evangelists?
144,000?
That many?

Joel in context was about the Tribulation years that will segue into the Millennium.

No one was sending in mass armies with overpowering power to destroy all the lands like Joel speaks of.

Not to mention... , Jerusalem was not restored forever at that time, like Joel speaks of.
Joel was simply a point of reference for Peter to use to reveal God can work with tongues...


grace and peace....

 

[Cameron143]

The early church was populated with Jewish evangelists?
144,000?
That many?

Joel in context was about the Tribulation years that will segue into the Millennium.

No one was sending in mass armies with overpowering power to destroy all the lands like Joel speaks of.

Not to mention... , Jerusalem was not restored forever at that time, like Joel speaks of.
Joel was simply a point of reference for Peter to use to reveal God can work with tongues...


grace and peace....

There were 144K evangelists who were spread out during the Diaspora. And it's the new Jerusalem that is eternal. It is spiritual and it is the church.
The Roman army was made up of men from conquered nations. It certainly came after Jerusalem.
Everything in Joel can be explained by 1st century events.