Election teaches that salvation comes from the Lord.

[Burn1986]

Jesus spoke about what you mistakenly think is for today.
Jesus said those things at a time when no one had become a new creation in Christ!

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Therefore, if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation: ​

The old has gone, the new has come!" 2 Corinthians 5:17​

Now we have become a new spiritual species. One that we are to have understanding of the Word for our food!

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And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more ​

in knowledge and depth of insight.." Philippians 1:9​

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​

​

grace and peace! ....

Mmm. Everything Jesus said is for us today. Salvation is for today. Jesus Rae from the dead and is alive. But you have to ask Him to come into your life (Romans 10:9-10, 13). “9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. …13 For whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

 

[selahsays]

I believe that everyone who has been predestined will heed and accept the Gospel of Christ. In other words, whoever comes to the Lord has been called and saved before the foundation of the world. They are of the Elect.

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

- Romans 8:28-30

 

[rogerg]

God does not choose to save us. He saves whomever He knows will believe.

I don't believe that possible. The unsaved will not /cannot truly believe in Christ because they do not have spiritual discernment to do so. Spiritual discernment only comes to someone when saved with/from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (see 1 Co 2:13 - 14 below).
Besides, God's foreknowledge was based upon who, not what.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Rom 3:11-12 KJV]
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

[Heb 4:2 KJV]
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

 

[Burn1986]

I don't believe that possible. The unsaved will not /cannot truly believe in Christ because they do not have spiritual discernment to do so. Spiritual discernment only comes to someone when saved with/from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (see 1 Co 2:13 - 14 below).
Besides, God foreknowledge was based upon who, not what.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Rom 3:11-12 KJV]
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Romans 3:23 says for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is in Christ Jesus our Lord
Romans 5:8 says that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
Roman 10:9-10 says 9for, if you confess* with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.
Romans 10:13 says everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

I’m not sure it can be made any simpler.

 

[Burn1986]

I believe that everyone who has been predestined will heed and accept the Gospel of Christ. In other words, whoever comes to the Lord has been called and saved before the foundation of the world. They are of the Elect.

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

- Romans 8:28-30

I don’t believe you and several other are capable of speaking anything without using predestined or elect in literally anything you say. Where is “elect” or predestined mentioned in Romans 3:23, 6:23, 5:8, 10:9-10, 13?

There’s a reason God led you to this forum, and there’s a reason I’m telling you that you’ve accepted a lie from the enemy to keep you bound and to steal from you and your families and friends. None if you who keep saying elect and pre-destined have acknowledged Jesus as your Lord and Savior. None of you have mentioned praying that prayer and calling out to Jesus for salvation. Why do you think the enemy wants to keep you from it? Mark 3:27 says No one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house.
The enemy wants to take everything from you but Jesus forever intercedes for us. Matthew 18:19 says
“Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven.”
If you want Jesus in your life then agree with me in this prayer “ Lord, forgive me from my sins. Heal me and deliver me from everything that is not pleasing to you. Deliver me from the evil one and put a right spirit within me. Jesus, I plead your shed blood over me, my house, my family and all my possessions. I bind the enemy coming against me, and I loose the Holy Spirit to have free reign in my house. In Jesus name amen.”

I’m praying this for you as well.

 

[rogerg]

Roman 10:9-10 says 9for, if you confess* with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.

To believe from the heart is not possible until first becoming saved/born again, as the verses I posted so state. The heart must
first be changed by God

[Eze 36:26 KJV] 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Romans 10:13 says everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

To truly call upon the name of the Lord one must first be saved because only then will/can someone recognize Him
as the Saviour.
The "shall be saved" is stated in the future tense, meaning the redemption/salvation of the body on the last day.

Did you not read the verses I included in my post to Genez?
If not, when you have a chance, please read them - they're self-explanatory.

 

[Burn1986]

To believe from the heart is not possible until first becoming saved/born again, as the verses I posted so state. The heart must
first be changed by God

[Eze 36:26 KJV] 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.



To truly call upon the name of the Lord one must first be saved because only then will/can someone recognize Him
as the Saviour.
The "shall be saved" is stated in the future tense, meaning the redemption/salvation of the body on the last day.

Did you not read the verses I included in my post to Genez?
If not, when you have a chance, please read them - they're self-explanatory.

That is simply not true. You know it’s not true. Romans 5:8 said that “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Christ didn’t wait for us to be cleaned up and then save us. Once you ask Jesus to come in, He comes in. Jesus says “ Behold I stand at the door and knock. If any man hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him…”
Actually the Father begins drawing us to Him. Zaccheus repented after Jesus talked to him. The woman at the well believed Jesus and her whole village was saved. Jesus and Paul and all the apostles always used “whosoever, any man, etc.” to include anyone who calls on the name will be saved. Peter called out to Jesus when he was sinking and Jesus saved him.

All a person has to do is pray and ask Jesus in their lives and He will come in.

Jesus I bind the spirit of confusion trying to come into this discussion and I commmand you to loose any person reading this, release them and flee now in Jesus name!

 

[rogerg]

hat is simply not true. You know it’s not true. Romans 5:8 said that “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Christ didn’t wait for us to be cleaned up and then save us.

Apparently, you are not understanding what I've been saying nor what the verses mean that I've posted. It is the exact
opposite of what you think I've said. Instead, I've been trying to explain that Christ first saves sinners and from that salvation, do they manifest the attributes of salvation, not the reverse: salvation comes first, from that, we grow more and more into true Christians. However, it is only Christ being the Saviour who can save- man of himself and by his own means cannot do so.
Salvation must first be given by Christ, with everything else coming after and from that.

 

[rogerg]

All a person has to do is pray and ask Jesus in their lives and He will come in.

Read the verses I posted. If you don't understand them, let me know and I'll try to explain.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

That is simply not true. You know it’s not true. Romans 5:8 said that “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Christ didn’t wait for us to be cleaned up and then save us. Once you ask Jesus to come in, He comes in. Jesus says “ Behold I stand at the door and knock. If any man hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him…”
Actually the Father begins drawing us to Him. Zaccheus repented after Jesus talked to him. The woman at the well believed Jesus and her whole village was saved. Jesus and Paul and all the apostles always used “whosoever, any man, etc.” to include anyone who calls on the name will be saved. Peter called out to Jesus when he was sinking and Jesus saved him.

All a person has to do is pray and ask Jesus in their lives and He will come in.

Jesus I bind the spirit of confusion trying to come into this discussion and I commmand you to loose any person reading this, release them and flee now in Jesus name!

No doubt there's many bound with false doctrine

 

[fredoheaven]

How can Christ save sinners? If he has no spirit of God on him? Basically, scriptures tells us simply how? BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Believe to be saved not saved then believe. That's putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Burn1986]

Read the verses I posted. If you don't understand them, let me know and I'll try to explain.

Have you read the verses I posted? How can it be any clearer. “Confess with the mouth, and believe in the heart.” Sometimes it takes a physical action to produce a spiritual result.

Everyone knows the verse in Ezekiel. God was speaking to Israel and all of us. It doesn’t mean you have to wait for a magical change in your heart before you confess Jesus. The action produces a change. That’s why it lists “confess” first and then “believe.”

 

[Genez]

Mmm. Everything Jesus said is for us today. Salvation is for today. Jesus Rae from the dead and is alive. But you have to ask Him to come into your life (Romans 10:9-10, 13). “9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. …13 For whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

I was referring to what He said concerning those who were alive before the Church age began.....

No person was a new creation in Christ in the OT. That's what I meant.


grace and peace .......

 

[Genez]

I don't believe that possible. The unsaved will not /cannot truly believe in Christ because they do not have spiritual discernment to do so. Spiritual discernment only comes to someone when saved with/from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (see 1 Co 2:13 - 14 below).
Besides, God's foreknowledge was based upon who, not what.

Please read again the book of Revelation.
What does that show you.

He already knows who will believe, and who will not.
That's all I was saying in effect.

God already knew you would believe before the foundation of the world.
He chose you to be a Christian when you believed.
He could have chosen you to be alive and saved when Moses would lead you through the parted waters.

What were you chosen for? To be a member of the Body of Christ. To become the Bride of Christ!

grace and peace .........

 

[Burn1986]

I don't believe that possible. The unsaved will not /cannot truly believe in Christ because they do not have spiritual discernment to do so. Spiritual discernment only comes to someone when saved with/from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (see 1 Co 2:13 - 14 below).
Besides, God's foreknowledge was based upon who, not what.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Rom 3:11-12 KJV]
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

[Heb 4:2 KJV]
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

Yes Rogerg these are all true. They don’t discount the need for a person to ask Jesus into their life. Jesus says, “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:” John 1:12. How do you receive someone? You invite their presence by calling their name. If you’re in a conversation and you say the name Jesus, it changes the atmosphere, because you invited Jesus’s presence. The same way in salvation. When you say the name Jesus, you acknowledge Him and who He is and you ask him to take control of your life. The thief on the cross simply said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into Kingdom.” And basically he was saved at that very moment.

 

[rogerg]

grace and peace

Okay, bye.

 

[Burn1986]

It’s saddening to see how the mind works sometimes.

 

[selahsays]

I don’t believe you and several other are capable of speaking anything without using predestined or elect in literally anything you say. Where is “elect” or predestined mentioned in Romans 3:23, 6:23, 5:8, 10:9-10, 13?

There’s a reason God led you to this forum, and there’s a reason I’m telling you that you’ve accepted a lie from the enemy to keep you bound and to steal from you and your families and friends. None if you who keep saying elect and pre-destined have acknowledged Jesus as your Lord and Savior. None of you have mentioned praying that prayer and calling out to Jesus for salvation. Why do you think the enemy wants to keep you from it? Mark 3:27 says No one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house.
The enemy wants to take everything from you but Jesus forever intercedes for us. Matthew 18:19 says
“Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven.”
If you want Jesus in your life then agree with me in this prayer “ Lord, forgive me from my sins. Heal me and deliver me from everything that is not pleasing to you. Deliver me from the evil one and put a right spirit within me. Jesus, I plead your shed blood over me, my house, my family and all my possessions. I bind the enemy coming against me, and I loose the Holy Spirit to have free reign in my house. In Jesus name amen.”

I’m praying this for you as well.

So you don’t believe what God has said in Romans 8:28-29? Are you calling God a liar? I hope not. Be very careful, my friend. You’re treading on dangerous ground.

 

[selahsays]

It’s saddening to see how the mind works sometimes.

It sure is. Some have no wisdom at all—eyes that can’t see and ears that can’t hear.

 

[selahsays]

No doubt there's many bound with false doctrine

Yep. They won’t learn if they won’t study.