Election teaches that salvation comes from the Lord.

[FollowerofShiloh]

No, it's not. The penalty of the sin against Christ is eternal damnation.

[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

But any time you sin you fulfill what Paul writes 3 verses later.
5 For those that are according to the flesh mind the things of the flesh, but those that are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

We are saved but when we sin we sin according to the flesh and not the Spirit.

We ALL sin.
We are not 100% Spiritual every second of the day.
Paul said we must kill our flesh daily because we sin daily.

People lie, change verses for their purpose, people have bad thoughts, when we drive and get almost hit we can get mad, we are always sinning according to the flesh even while being Spirit filled.

That's why Jesus taught saved Christians to pray the Lord's Prayer because you DAILY confess your sins and ask for forgiveness.

Anyone who says they do not sin is a LIAR!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

^
BTW, not picking on Roger just using his verse reference in Romans chapter 8

 

[Genez]

But any time you sin you fulfill what Paul writes 3 verses later.
5 For those that are according to the flesh mind the things of the flesh, but those that are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

We are saved but when we sin we sin according to the flesh and not the Spirit.

We ALL sin.
We are not 100% Spiritual every second of the day.
Paul said we must kill our flesh daily because we sin daily.

People lie, change verses for their purpose, people have bad thoughts, when we drive and get almost hit we can get mad, we are always sinning according to the flesh even while being Spirit filled.

That's why Jesus taught saved Christians to pray the Lord's Prayer because you DAILY confess your sins and ask for forgiveness.

Anyone who says they do not sin is a LIAR!

This is what we are to do when we know we have sinned...

​

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us ​

our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9​

1 John 1:9 sounds like God planned to take care of our sinning after we are saved?

grace and peace ..........

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

This is what we are to do when we know we have sinned...

​

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us ​

our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9​

1 John 1:9 sounds like God planned to take care of our sinning after we are saved?

grace and peace ..........

Amen
John clarifies what Jesus taught us in His Prayer, "Forgive us of our sins as we FORGIVE those who sinned against us."

 

[rogerg]

The penalty of sin is "spiritual" death. Not physical death. Not eternal damnation.

He said to another man, “Follow me.”​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, ​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

​

Luke 9:59-60​

Many dead sinners walk around without keeling over.
Because many sinners walk around being dead to God.

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead.”​

Again...


In order to be saved one first needs to know he is a sinner. That's all.
The solution is Jesus Christ.

God made the Gospel for even simpletons to understand.
Because, simpletons need to get saved with everyone else.

Do you realize that?

All who are spiritually dead - those not made spiritually alive by Christ in this life -
on judgement day will suffer eternal damnation,
also called the second death. It is called the second death because they
are already once dead.
If Jesus is the Saviour (and He is), then what man knows
or doesn't know is irrelevant because it is Jesus who saves, not man.
It is not within man's power to cause himself to become saved.
And at this point I'm done.

 

[rogerg]

Anyone who says they do not sin is a LIAR!

What's your point?

 

[Genez]

What's your point?

You have been sounding like certain believers who believe they do not sin anymore.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

14 For if you forgive men their offenses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you;

15 but if you for give not men, neither will your Father forgive your offenses.

It's conditional and it comes from the mouth of God Himself!

 

[brightfame52]

Ephesians 1:3-13.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.


Paul makes it pretty clear in verse 4 that God chose. even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,

He predestined His chosen, verse 5. he predestined us for adoption

He gave in verse 6. to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

He forgave verse 7. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses,

He lavished grace verses 7-8. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight

He made His will known in verse 9. making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

He purposed verse 9. according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

He included verse 13. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

He marked us and sealed us with the Holy Spirit. verse 13. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,


And what is of the utmost important is, that these are all done in Christ. Which is why we must be regenerated first and placed in Christ by God before we can believe or receive any of this.

The passage also shows that Election, having been chosen in Christ before the foundation is part of Paul's Gospel message and it was heard in the Gospel they heard of him in Eph 1:13, so was being predestinated Vs 5

 

[brightfame52]

14 For if you forgive men their offenses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you;

15 but if you for give not men, neither will your Father forgive your offenses.

It's conditional and it comes from the mouth of God Himself!

Thats not Gospel nor salvation. Jesus is speaking of believers already saved and God is their Father, so it hasn't nothing to do with the unbelieving world.

 

[rogerg]

You have been sounding like certain believers who believe they do not sin anymore.

In terms of eternal salvation, no, I do not believe that anyone saved can sin a sin that can/will remove it from them,
or stop them from getting it if of the elect. To believe otherwise is to believe that sin is greater or more powerful than Christ and His offering and limits and demeans its efficacy.
I have a doctors appt. this morning so I won't be able reply until later.

 

[Genez]

The passage also shows that Election, having been chosen in Christ before the foundation is part of Paul's Gospel message and it was heard in the Gospel they heard of him in Eph 1:13, so was being predestinated Vs 5

What were we chosen for?

Chosen to have God force us to believe? (Calvinism)

Or, chosen for what we shall be made to be in time and eternity, because God knows we will choose to believe?

We have been chosen "in Him." = Chosen to be the Bride of Christ! Not all believers throughout history have been so chosen!

 

[Genez]

In terms of eternal salvation, no, I do not believe that anyone saved can sin a sin that can/will remove it from them,
or stop them from getting it if of the elect. To believe otherwise is to believe that sin is greater or more powerful than Christ and His offering and limits and demeans its efficacy.
I have a doctors appt. this morning so I won't be able reply until later.

Good... because you failed to give a good reply the first time.

Try again.

Here it is again...

You have been sounding like certain believers who believe they do not sin anymore.

Explain, please!

 

[Cameron143]

What were we chosen for?

Chosen to have God force us to believe? (Calvinism)

Or, chosen for what we shall be made to be in time and eternity, because God knows we will choose to believe?

We have been chosen "in Him." = Chosen to be the Bride of Christ! Not all believers throughout history have been so chosen!

Calvinists do not believe God forces anyone.

 

[brightfame52]

What were we chosen for?

Chosen to have God force us to believe? (Calvinism)

Or, chosen for what we shall be made to be in time and eternity, because God knows we will choose to believe?

We have been chosen "in Him." = Chosen to be the Bride of Christ! Not all believers throughout history have been so chosen!

Read the passage, it tells us what the election was for

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

The passage also shows that Election, having been chosen in Christ before the foundation is part of Paul's Gospel message and it was heard in the Gospel they heard of him in Eph 1:13, so was being predestinated Vs 5

It clearly shows that it was Christ who is foreknown as the ONE to bring salvation that future believers would be IN before the foundation of the world. Odd for a self proclaimed Christian to miss that view to promote the self view that cannot happen without Christ.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Thats not Gospel nor salvation. Jesus is speaking of believers already saved and God is their Father, so it hasn't nothing to do with the unbelieving world.

I am not talking to unbelievers. Only to those who promote FALSE DOCTRINE! Interesting that you would even comment on it.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Read the passage, it tells us what the election was for

Jesus to be Savior and the WAY for believers to be everything listed in/by/through CHRIST JESUS!

Remove Jesus from Ephesians chapter 1 verses 3-5 and how can believers be Blessed, Chosen in Him, and adopted sons of God?

They cant!

So it is ALL about JESUS!

 

[rogerg]

Good... because you failed to give a good reply the first time.

Try again.

Here it is again...

You have been sounding like certain believers who believe they do not sin anymore.

Explain, please!

I did and either you couldn't understand or missed my reply. There are two kinds of sin: 1) sin against Christ as Saviour and
2) carnal, temporal sins of this world. To sin against Christ, unless becoming saved, results in eternal damnation. If guilty of that at the judgment, then any other sin that may have been committed, even though being earthly sin, pales in comparison as to effect.
It is like a mole hill being compared to Mount Everest. If one suffers eternal damnation, then can anything lesser mitigate that
condemnation or make it better?

Provide the post where I said "they do not sin anymore" so I can see exactly what you're referring to.

And by the way, no one made you a judge of my replies. I will reply how I want, when I want and if you don't
like them, that's your problem, not mine. I am not indebted or subservient to you to have to provide you any justification.

 

[Magenta]

Calvinists do not believe God forces anyone.

... while they also claim they had no choice in the matter...