Salvation is a Free Gift.

[rogerg]

The Bible says both. I'll go with the Bible. You are free to want to make up doctrines that replace what Scripture says with what you prefer. I don't have to accept the premises of your false dichotomies.

Ahh, no, they're mutually exclusive of each other so that's not possible. But it's good to know how you perceive it.
You do know that "the Saviour" represents the singular, right?

[Phl 3:20 KJV] 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[Cameron143]

I don't understand that idea. How does that relate to increasing conception?

Conceptions means more births. What was God's purpose in increasing births beyond filling the earth?

 

[Jimbone]

Do you affirm any or all of the concepts of Total Inability (No one can believe in the death and resurrection of Christ unto justification until after God regenerates his spirit), Unconditional Election (Before creating the world God chose who He will and who He will not regenerate so that they can and will believe unto salvation); Limited Atonement (Jesus paid only for the sins of those whom God chose before creation to save); Irresistible Grace (Anyone God regenerates cannot but believe in the Lord Jesus unto justification); and or Perseverance of the saints (Everyone God regenerates will continue to believe in Christ unto salvation until and beyond their own death forever).

EVERYONE believes in limited atonement that doesn't believe everyone is saved no matter what. Regardless of your camp, or what you label yourself as, if you don't believe that everyone is saved, then you HAVE TO believe there's some kind of limit to His atonement. I don't really care about any of the rest now, and really am not trying to get into your conversation, but I've heard so many speak against limited atonement so often I just wanted to point out the fact that we ALL believe this unless you believe the wicked pedophile murderer who tortured his victims to death for Satan every day of his life until the day he died cursing the Holy Spirit with his last breath is going to heaven, then you too believe in limited atonement.

 

[PaulThomson]

Conceptions means more births. What was God's purpose in increasing births beyond filling the earth?

You're the one who believes you have a great insight here. You tell us.

 

[Magenta]

Conceptions means more births. What was God's purpose in increasing births beyond filling the earth?

Good morning Cameron why do you think it is beyond filling the Earth?

Oh! I understand what you mean now... Never mind! Lol

 

[PaulThomson]

EVERYONE believes in limited atonement that doesn't believe everyone is saved no matter what. Regardless of your camp, or what you label yourself as, if you don't believe that everyone is saved, then you HAVE TO believe there's some kind of limit to His atonement.

Well, that's not true.

I don't really care about any of the rest now, and really am not trying to get into your conversation, but I've heard so many speak against limited atonement so often I just wanted to point out the fact that we ALL believe this unless you believe the wicked pedophile murderer who tortured his victims to death for Satan every day of his life until the day he died cursing the Holy Spirit with his last breath is going to heaven, then you too believe in limited atonement.

I don't believe in limited atonement, and I don't believe "the wicked pedophile murderer who tortured his victims to death for Satan every day of his life until the day he died cursing the Holy Spirit with his last breath is going to heaven". So, perhaps there is something wrong with your reasoning?

 

[Jimbone]

Ahh, no, they're mutually exclusive of each other so that's not possible. But it's good to know how you perceive it.
You do know that "the Saviour" represents the singular, right?

[Phl 3:20 KJV] 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

I do not understand how this concept alludes them. They want to be able to have something to boast about so bad that they can't give God all the Glory He is due. They think "they" get to own there decision/choice when His word they claim to hold to so strictly tells us very clearly that ALL the glory belongs to Him and we can't even seek God without being drawn by Him. It's like this thread of ego and blindness just won't break. They hate to hear God gets the glory for that choice they think they made outside His power. They seem to get mad about it.

 

[Jimbone]

Well, that's not true.



I don't believe in limited atonement, and I don't believe "the wicked pedophile murderer who tortured his victims to death for Satan every day of his life until the day he died cursing the Holy Spirit with his last breath is going to heaven". So, perhaps there is something wrong with your reasoning?

Then you're just confused, are not thinking deeply, and have no clue what we mean or what you're talking about. Weird.

 

[rogerg]

I do not understand how this concept alludes them. They want to be able to have something to boast about so bad that they can't give God all the Glory He is due. They think "they" get to own there decision/choice when His word they claim to hold to so strictly tells us very clearly that ALL the glory belongs to Him and we can't even seek God without being drawn by Him. It's like this thread of ego and blindness just won't break. They hate to hear God gets the glory for that choice they think they made outside His power. They seem to get mad about it.

Absolutely correct Jimbone, and I totally agree with you, and am beyond dumbfounded by it - especially since many, if not all, claim to be Christians. I wonder what they think that means?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

EVERYONE believes in limited atonement that doesn't believe everyone is saved no matter what. Regardless of your camp, or what you label yourself as, if you don't believe that everyone is saved, then you HAVE TO believe there's some kind of limit to His atonement. I don't really care about any of the rest now, and really am not trying to get into your conversation, but I've heard so many speak against limited atonement so often I just wanted to point out the fact that we ALL believe this unless you believe the wicked pedophile murderer who tortured his victims to death for Satan every day of his life until the day he died cursing the Holy Spirit with his last breath is going to heaven, then you too believe in limited atonement.

Amen just true belief in Jesus the thing. This means however that when Jesus our Lord and only Savior is telling us about salvation , if he’s the one we believe in , then we need to accept his terms for his gift of atonement shed freely for all by those very words “ anyone who hears and believes me shall have eternal life and will not be condemned “

if we reject the things he said we’re missing the promises provided with the atonement he gave us

to believe we hear him

 

[PaulThomson]

Then you're just confused, are not thinking deeply, and have no clue what we mean or what you're talking about. Weird.

Jesus atoned for the sins of the world, according to the scriptures. The only reason people are excluded from reconciliation with God and an inheritance in His kingdom is refusal to trust in the appointed King. This refusal is evidenced by sinful behaviour, but it is not the sinful behaviour that will condemn the sinner. It's his refusal to trust the Son.

 

[PaulThomson]

Then you're just confused, are not thinking deeply, and have no clue what we mean or what you're talking about. Weird.

Jesus atoned for the sins of the world, according to the scriptures. The only reason people are excluded from reconciliation with God and an inheritance in His kingdom is refusal to trust in the appointed King. This refusal is evidenced by sinful behaviour, but it is not the sinful behaviour that will condemn the sinner. It's his refusal to trust the Son.

 

[PaulThomson]

Absolutely correct Jimbone, and I totally agree with you, and am beyond dumbfounded by it - especially since many, if not all, claim to be Christians. I wonder what they think that means?

Why does Peter tell the jews in Acts 2 to save themselves from this untoward generation? Scripture says it, but you reject it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus atoned for the sins of the world, according to the scriptures. The only reason people are excluded from reconciliation with God and an inheritance in His kingdom is refusal to trust in the appointed King. This refusal is evidenced by sinful behaviour, but it is not the sinful behaviour that will condemn the sinner. It's his refusal to trust the Son.

Yes I think the thing is to trust someone you have to take him at his word thisnis an issue for many .

Some try make it into “ just trust Jesus died for your sins and rose “ and if you say “ Jesus said this about salvation we need to repent “ that’s where the conflict comes in we can’t just only believe what he did for us and also reject what he said according to his sacrifice

if we trust Jesus we should come near and listen to what he was saying in the gospel that is the part that shepherds us through

 

[Cameron143]

You're the one who believes you have a great insight here. You tell us.

I already said: the introduction of the elect.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Why does Peter tell the jews in Acts 2 to save themselves from this untoward generation? Scripture says it, but you reject it.

peter and also Paul we’re doing this for people

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is how God delivers us he teaches us by his spoken and powerful word

 

[rogerg]

Why does Peter tell the jews in Acts 2 to save themselves from this untoward generation? Scripture says it, but you reject it.

Not to save themselves from God's wrath, but to save themselves from "this untoward generation". And as a result, they separated themselves henceforth unto the care of the apostles.

[Act 2:40-42 KJV]
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

EVERYONE believes in limited atonement that doesn't believe everyone is saved no matter what. Regardless of your camp, or what you label yourself as, if you don't believe that everyone is saved, then you HAVE TO believe there's some kind of limit to His atonement. I don't really care about any of the rest now, and really am not trying to get into your conversation, but I've heard so many speak against limited atonement so often I just wanted to point out the fact that we ALL believe this unless you believe the wicked pedophile murderer who tortured his victims to death for Satan every day of his life until the day he died cursing the Holy Spirit with his last breath is going to heaven, then you too believe in limited atonement.

I don't believe in the full entire concept of limited atonement because Paul told us God has instructed ALL people to Repent. That means, if anyone no matter their lifestyle and crimes committed Repents, God will forgive them. We see this on Death Beds all of the time.

Man refuses to Repent is what the problem is. He justifies his actions and makes excuses for them. In short, he Rebels to any form of authority but even more so especially towards God.

So if Reprobate man Repents, there is in place the Blood of Christ.

You have to completely ignore that Creation is God's Offspring and that God made a way to seek Him to reject that God died for ALL of His offspring when He Commands ALL of His offspring to Repent.

That's calling God a LIAR!

These Verses (below) prove Limited Atonement is a LIE from the pits of HELL:

26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,

28 for

“‘In him we live and move and have our being’;
as even some of your own poets have said,

“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’

29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.

30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I don't believe in the full entire concept of limited atonement because Paul told us God has instructed ALL people to Repent. That means, if anyone no matter their lifestyle and crimes committed Repents, God will forgive them. We see this on Death Beds all of the time.

Man refuses to Repent is what the problem is. He justifies his actions and makes excuses for them. In short, he Rebels to any form of authority but even more so especially towards God.

So if Reprobate man Repents, there is in place the Blood of Christ.

You have to completely ignore that Creation is God's Offspring and that God made a way to seek Him to reject that God died for ALL of His offspring when He Commands ALL of His offspring to Repent.

That's calling God a LIAR!

These Verses (below) prove Limited Atonement is a LIE from the pits of HELL:

26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,

28 for

“‘In him we live and move and have our being’;
as even some of your own poets have said,

“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’

29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.

30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent

He was saying he doesn’t think Jesus death is going to just save everyone regardless of what they do

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Not to save themselves from God's wrath, but to save themselves from "this untoward generation". And as a result, they separated themselves henceforth unto the care of the apostles.

[Act 2:40-42 KJV]
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

is it “ Christ will do all thing through me ?”

Or is I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength ?

If we keep insisting God doesn’t want us to actually do anything and we can’t do anything he said . How can we do all things through christ that gives strength ?

maybe that’s evidence we haven’t actually changed really or been born a new creation in him through the gospel ? Maybe we should let him change us through hearing and believing the gospel until we actually begin thinking “ I can do stuff through Christ who gives me strength too . it isn’t beyond me anymore I’m not who i used to be , I died with Christ through baptism and was raised by faith in the operation of God with him so I can live a new life free from that bond I lived in before “

Maybe this is our place when we believe

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And be not conformed to this world:

but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,( hear what he said and believe ) that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we won’t hear the other parts of God telling us to stop doing evil and begin doing the good we’re stopping him from doing this part

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

aid we just always argue with anyone talking about what we’re supposed to do that’s never going to happen the change of our nature and spirit of our mind can’t change if we won’t hear him