The Law Is Out Of Date And Will "SOON DISAPPEAR"?

[SabbathBlessing]

Good morning, little brother (I think I’m older than you., lol.). You might consider what it is that’s kept in the Ark of the Covenant, which resides in heaven. View attachment 263773 Inside are kept the two tablets that God Himself wrote—not once, but twice.
Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

- Revelation 11:19

It's so strange to me that so many people believe God would let man write His moral code for righteous living or let man edit one jot or title from what God personally wrote. Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 Like our ways are above God's ways, when He tells us they're not.

Where there is no law, there is no sin Rom 4:15, so God's law started in heaven because Lucifer sinned 1 John 3:8 hence Rev 11:19

Sin is breaking any of the Ten Commandments that God alone wrote with His own finger, placed under His mercy seat that is in heaven where Judgement and Mercy come together. Removing one jot or tittle means one would not be covered Pro 28:13 so seems like a bad idea.

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. You can find all of the law from He (God) who said in Exodus 20

Not sure how people come to the conclusion we can break God's law. It's what separated man from God Isa 59:2 and God does not change so doing the same thing that God has condemned each and every time in scripture is not the way. Jesus showed us the WAY led by example John 15:10 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15 Scriptures shows how long-suffering God is, but He destroyed literal Isarael for their continuous rebelliousness to His law. We are not more special. God loves everyone, but that doesn't mean He will not execute His righteous Judgement, He tells us He will. 2 Cor 5:10 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15

I agree the law cannot save us, all it does shows is our sin Rom 3:20 and bring us to Christ Gal 3:24 Psa 19:7 and so we don't depend on righteous way of living but instead on God's Psa 119:172 which is everlasting Psa 119:142. Keeping God's law is a reflection of faith in Jesus to not only hear what He says, but do them through love and faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus , to follow the example He left for us 1 John 2:6 who kept God's law John 15:10

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Which reconciles us back to Him

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I don't think the new covenant deals with nations, but individuals. But it's an interesting question. At some point the old covenant had to end and sanctions for Israel's failure applied. At the same time, a covenant of grace runs throughout the old testament period beginning in Genesis 3. So I don't think it was necessarily a promise to national Israel as much as a promise to the seed of Abraham.

Abraham father of many nations and not Abram the father of the Hebrew nation , Isaac and not ishmael ishmael was a castaway and did not inherit Abraham's blessings but was given his own lesser blessing but through Isaac was the seed called

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It's so strange to me that so many people believe God would let man write His moral code for righteous living or let man edit one jot or title from what God personally wrote. Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 Like our ways are above God's ways, when He tells us they're not.

Where there is no law, there is no sin Rom 4:15, so God's law started in heaven because Lucifer sinned 1 John 3:8 hence Rev 11:19

Sin is breaking any of the Ten Commandments that God alone wrote with His own finger, placed under His mercy seat that is in heaven where Judgement and Mercy come together. Removing one jot or tittle means one would not be covered Pro 28:13 so seems like a bad idea.

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. You can find all of the law from He (God) who said in Exodus 20

Not sure how people come to the conclusion we can break God's law. It's what separated man from God Isa 59:2 and God does not change so doing the same thing that God has condemned each and every time in scripture is not the way. Jesus showed us the WAY led by example John 15:10 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15 Scriptures shows how long-suffering God is, but He destroyed literal Isarael for their continuous rebelliousness to His law. We are not more special. God loves everyone, but that doesn't mean He will not execute His righteous Judgement, He tells us He will. 2 Cor 5:10 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15

I agree the law cannot save us, all it does shows is our sin Rom 3:20 and bring us to Christ Gal 3:24 Psa 19:7 and so we don't depend on righteous way of living but instead on God's Psa 119:172 which is everlasting Psa 119:142. Keeping God's law is a reflection of faith in Jesus to not only hear what He says, but do them through love and faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus , to follow the example He left for us 1 John 2:6 who kept God's law John 15:10

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Which reconciles us back to Him

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Your I distance that the ten commandments given at Sinai doesn't ring God says he will make a new covenant that is not according to the one he made with them at Sinai. It doesn't matter that he gave the ten commandments he's saying I'm going to make a different covenant not according to the one I made with them then

‭Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV‬
[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32] not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

When he says " I will put my laws in their heart " he's talking about the law he swore to come give himself the new covenant not according to the one given at Sinai


This isn't speaking back to a law already given it's speaking to a new kaw he's going to give when he comes

‭Isaiah 51:4-5 KJV‬
[4] Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. [5] My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.

‭Isaiah 55:3-5 KJV‬
[3] Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. [4] Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. [5] Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.

He was saying all along he would come and make a new covenant not according to the covenant he made with them at Sinai

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Your I distance that the ten commandments given at Sinai doesn't ring God says he will make a new covenant that is not according to the one he made with them at Sinai. It doesn't matter that he gave the ten commandments he's saying I'm going to make a different covenant not according to the one I made with them then

‭Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV‬
[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32] not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

When he says " I will put my laws in their heart " he's talking about the law he swore to come give himself the new covenant not according to the one given at Sinai


This isn't speaking back to a law already given it's speaking to a new kaw he's going to give when he comes

‭Isaiah 51:4-5 KJV‬
[4] Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. [5] My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.

‭Isaiah 55:3-5 KJV‬
[3] Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. [4] Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. [5] Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.

He was saying all along he would come and make a new covenant not according to the covenant he made with them at Sinai

The New Covenant does not say its based new law.

The New Covenant is based on better promises Heb 8:6, not better laws. No need to make something perfect more perfect Psa 19:7 The New Covenant still has God's law written in the heart Heb 8:10 why it is still a sin to break even one of the Ten Commandments James 2:10-12 as it affects our status in heaven as one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30

The New Covenant is not the same covenant as before it is based on better promises. Is it not a better promise that instead of the people doing, it has God doing? Is it not a better promise, that Jesus is now the Medidator and our High Priest of the New Covent instead of going to an earthy priest? Is it not a better promise to have the blood of Jesus who can cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness when we go to Him with a sincere heart over our sins and ask Him to change us, instead of taking the blood of an animal as a sin offering? So, its not the same covenant, it is based on better promises, but still has the Promise of God that He will not alter His Words Psa 89:34 hence why the words of the covenant Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 the Ten Commandments, went from tables of stone to tablets of the heart and He gives us the power to keep when we don't harden our heart Heb 3:7-8 because going away from God's law Jesus says our hearts are far from Him. Mat 15:3-14. Jesus wants us close to Him, hence why He wrote His law in our hearts and minds and gives us the power to keep. John 14:15-18

So not the same covenant, based on much better promises just as it states. Heb 8:6

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Your I distance that the ten commandments given at Sinai doesn't ring God says he will make a new covenant that is not according to the one he made with them at Sinai. It doesn't matter that he gave the ten commandments he's saying I'm going to make a different covenant not according to the one I made with them then

‭Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV‬
[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32] not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

When he says " I will put my laws in their heart " he's talking about the law he swore to come give himself the new covenant not according to the one given at Sinai


This isn't speaking back to a law already given it's speaking to a new kaw he's going to give when he comes

‭Isaiah 51:4-5 KJV‬
[4] Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. [5] My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.

‭Isaiah 55:3-5 KJV‬
[3] Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. [4] Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. [5] Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.

He was saying all along he would come and make a new covenant not according to the covenant he made with them at Sinai

I'm not distancing from Sinai just putting the Text in proper context.

Where there is no law there is no sin. Rom 4:15

Did Adam and Eve not sin in the Garden. Therefore the broke God's law. Did they not covet something that wasn't theirs when eating from the forbidden tree- breaking commandment #10. Did they not steal something that wasn't their when taking the forbidden fruit breaking commandment #8. Didn't they break the very first commandment when they choose to listen to another spirit over listening to their Heavenly Father Exo 20:3. They broke God's law which is sin and what separated man from God Isa 59:2

Wasn't it sin for Cain to kill Abell? God said it was. Without law there is no sin. Rom 4:15 therefore Cain had to know the commandments of thou shalt not murder only found in the Ten Commandments. Exo 20:13

So God's people always knew God's commandments, because God's people keep God's commandments Rev 14:12

God did something different at Mt Sinai He personally wrote and spoke His Ten Commanemtns on stone to the whole nation of Israel because it represents His people. The people already knew the commandments before Mt Sinai because they already knew what sin was and therefore had God's law.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The New Covenant does not say its based new law.

The New Covenant is based on better promises Heb 8:6, not better laws. No need to make something perfect more perfect Psa 19:7 The New Covenant still has God's law written in the heart Heb 8:10 why it is still a sin to break even one of the Ten Commandments James 2:10-12 as it affects our status in heaven as one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30

The New Covenant is not the same covenant as before it is based on better promises. Is it not a better promise that instead of the people doing, it has God doing? Is it not a better promise, that Jesus is now the Medidator and our High Priest of the New Covent instead of going to an earthy priest? Is it not a better promise to have the blood of Jesus who can cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness when we go to Him with a sincere heart over our sins and ask Him to change us, instead of taking the blood of an animal as a sin offering? So, its not the same covenant, it is based on better promises, but still has the Promise of God that He will not alter His Words Psa 89:34 hence why the words of the covenant Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 the Ten Commandments, went from tables of stone to tablets of the heart and He gives us the power to keep when we don't harden our heart Heb 3:7-8 because going away from God's law Jesus says our hearts are far from Him. Mat 15:3-14. Jesus wants us close to Him, hence why He wrote His law in our hearts and minds and gives us the power to keep. John 14:15-18

So not the same covenant, based on much better promises just as it states. Heb 8:6

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭34:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the covenant a what God said to them later he said this

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at this point it seems you just want t argue with yourself read this

“Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.( this is the word you’re pushing )


For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.


But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: ( covenant made at Sinai ) for the son of the bondwoman ( old covenant ) shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. ( new covenant )

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman,( old covenant the law of Moses ) but of the free.”new covenant the gospel
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:21-26, 30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[studier]

I don't think the new covenant deals with nations, but individuals. But it's an interesting question. At some point the old covenant had to end and sanctions for Israel's failure applied. At the same time, a covenant of grace runs throughout the old testament period beginning in Genesis 3. So I don't think it was necessarily a promise to national Israel as much as a promise to the seed of Abraham.

Jer. 31:31-34 NKJ "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying,`Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

There are many ways to approach this, but the straightest and shortest path might be to not only recognize that Jesus was not only of Jacob/Israel but also of Judah. So, Messiah is of Israel and Judah but also there is a Remnant of Israel that is saved. The New Covenant was made between God and Israel as God promised, and the nations are grafted in which Paul covers in Rom11 which includes a warning to us in Rom11:20-22. We of the nations need to remember the root from which the concept of spiritual Israel is derived. We also need to remember our spiritual tie to Abraham from whom came the Seed. The New Covenant is new, but it's tied to a lot of history designed and guided by God to be fulfilled in the nations. And in the nations meaning we remember the concept of the Remnant of Israel, and not all Israel is Israel, so we know nations does not mean every person.

When I asked you to elaborate on what you mentioned about the Covenant being between our Father and our Lord, I wasn't necessarily taking issue with what you said, but it's more succinctly stated that God made the New Covenant with Israel and Judah, so there's more to the story.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭34:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the covenant a what God said to them later he said this

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at this point it seems you just want t argue with yourself read this

“Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.( this is the word you’re pushing )


For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.


But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: ( covenant made at Sinai ) for the son of the bondwoman ( old covenant ) shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. ( new covenant )

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman,( old covenant the law of Moses ) but of the free.”new covenant the gospel
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:21-26, 30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A covenant means an agreement, the covenant was new because its based on better promises, Heb 8:6 not better laws- it still has God's law now written in the heart Heb 8:10. If you feel you can worship other gods, vain His name, break His holy Sabbath day, bow to images, steal, covet, or break the least of these that Jesus told us not to break as one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30 and our hearts our far from Him Mat 15:3-14 opposite of the New Covenant, unlike all His faithful in scripture but somehow it doesn't apply to you. Guess that can between you and God come Judgement day. Jesus said to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4 and the just live by faith, so that is where my faith lies. James 2:10-12 Mat 5:17-19 Math 15:3-15 Rom 7:7 1 John 5:3 1 Cor 7:19 Eph 6:2 Acts 18:4 Mat 24:20 Isa 66:22-23 Isa 56:1-7 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14-15 clearly shows God's Ten Commandments didn't end as people teach, but we do have free will.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

A covenant means an agreement, the covenant was new because its based on better promises, not better laws. If you feel you can worship other gods, vain His name, break His holy Sabbath, bow to images, steal, covet, or break the least of these that Jesus told us not to break as one would be in fear of sin and Judgement and our hearts our far from Him, but some how it doesn't apply to you. Guess that can between you and God come Judgement day. Jesus said to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and the just live by faith, so that is where my faith lies. I wish you well though.

Yeah right an agreement is based on what the mediator said Moses was the mediator he went to God god gave him the law and the angel gave him judgements for that covenant law given at Sinai to israel

if you remove the words god spoke to them and they agreed to then there’s no agreement the blood is then after the word is spoken shed for the people in the covenant agreement

Like this


“And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. ( an agreement to the words of the covenant )

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬


jesus is the mediator of the new covenant we have to find out what he said and bf fret what Moses said regarding the law but look for what Moses was prophesying about Jesus who came later with Gods words of requirement


awe don’t serve god like people who haven’t received remission of sins , or who need ten rocks telling us not to kill steal and cheat we have the living God with us in Christ and if we listen to him

No one will kill , steal , commit adultery worship false gods and make idols to worship and and bow to ect all of those things can be found in the gospel and epistles

we don’t serve gos by ten thou shalt nots we serve God by listening tonjesus and following along with his living and active word that saves souls rather than condemning them like the law of Moses

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Yeah right an agreement is based on what the mediator said Moses was the mediator he went to God god gave him the law and the angel gave him judgements for that covenant law given at Sinai to israel

if you remove the words god spoke to them and they agreed to then there’s no agreement the blood is then after the word is spoken shed for the people in the covenant agreement

Like this


“And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. ( an agreement to the words of the covenant )

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬


jesus is the mediator of the new covenant we have to find out what he said and bf fret what Moses said regarding the law but look for what Moses was prophesying about Jesus who came later with Gods words of requirement


awe don’t serve god like people who haven’t received remission of sins , or who need ten rocks telling us not to kill steal and cheat we have the living God with us in Christ and if we listen to him

No one will kill , steal , commit adultery worship false gods and make idols to worship and and bow to ect all of those things can be found in the gospel and epistles

we don’t serve gos by ten thou shalt nots we serve God by listening tonjesus and following along with his living and active word that saves souls rather than condemning them like the law of Moses

Wait a minute you said God didn't renew His covenant of the Ten Commandments- so how can they be in the gospel if they all ended.

Do you think God misspoke when He called the Ten Commandments "His covenant" instead of calling it the law of Moses. When in His Ten Commanemtns He called them "His commandments" instead of the commandments of Moses. When He claimed the Ten Commanemtns was "His work" Exo 32:16 instead of the work of Moses. Why the Ten were always separated from the law of Moses as only the 10 were inside the ark Exo 40:20.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Sorry for typos, I meant God's wrote in the Ten Commandments He calls them "My commandments"

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Can someone explain to me how Moses became God. I am pretty sure "My" means God, not Moses. I am pretty sure God wrote the Ten Commandments Exo 31:16 and called it His work Exo 32:16 and claimed them to be His commandments. God's ways are above our ways, something God personally wrote and spoke that is revealed in heaven Rev 11:19 is a clear example of how His ways are above our ways considering how many people reject these for some strange reason, when God is only trying to bless us and reconcile us Rev 22:14

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

My friend, it isn't possible to break Laws when the Laws don't exist. Don't you see Paul teaching that principle in Scripture?

Nope god's LAW / WILL is eternal. The law has no effect on a Christian, who has already been judged, and put to death by it. (Gal 2:20)

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Nope god's LAW / WILL is eternal. The law has no effect on a Christian, who has already been judged, and put to death by it. (Gal 2:20)

Judgment is the last day John 12:48 by that time everyone will have made their decisions Rev 22:11 on who they yield themselves to obey Rom 6:16

 

[Cameron143]

Jer. 31:31-34 NKJ "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying,`Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

There are many ways to approach this, but the straightest and shortest path might be to not only recognize that Jesus was not only of Jacob/Israel but also of Judah. So, Messiah is of Israel and Judah but also there is a Remnant of Israel that is saved. The New Covenant was made between God and Israel as God promised, and the nations are grafted in which Paul covers in Rom11 which includes a warning to us in Rom11:20-22. We of the nations need to remember the root from which the concept of spiritual Israel is derived. We also need to remember our spiritual tie to Abraham from whom came the Seed. The New Covenant is new, but it's tied to a lot of history designed and guided by God to be fulfilled in the nations. And in the nations meaning we remember the concept of the Remnant of Israel, and not all Israel is Israel, so we know nations does not mean every person.

When I asked you to elaborate on what you mentioned about the Covenant being between our Father and our Lord, I wasn't necessarily taking issue with what you said, but it's more succinctly stated that God made the New Covenant with Israel and Judah, so there's more to the story.

Hope this makes sense.

It's a good explanation. But the new covenant...the promised covenant was always in Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:19 says God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ. It began with Adam through the promised seed. The plan of redemption was then revealed more fully through successive figures and covenants, until it was fully realized in Christ Himself. So I think the new covenant deals with spiritual Israel...children of the promise, and not literal Israel.
Now God did come to the Jews first. And I do think the language is significant, but not literally. Unbelieving Jews must be grafted back in. That's no different than Gentiles.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Wait a minute you said God didn't renew His covenant of the Ten Commandments- so how can they be in the gospel if they all ended.

Do you think God misspoke when He called the Ten Commandments "His covenant" instead of calling it the law of Moses. When in His Ten Commanemtns He called them "His commandments" instead of the commandments of Moses. When He claimed the Ten Commanemtns was "His work" Exo 32:16 instead of the work of Moses. Why the Ten were always separated from the law of Moses as only the 10 were inside the ark Exo 40:20.

That’s not what I said at all what I said was if we follow Christ we won’t kill anyone it removes the need for a rock telling you “ thou shalt not kill “

aim sayong that if we learn from Jesus he’s going to teach us how to live right he’s not telling us “ thou shalt not do this thou shalt not do that “ no one could ever learn what to do if we’re stuck thinking God just told us what not to do make sense ?

what im saying is if you forget about the rocks of Moses d turn to the living stone of God you’ll never need to look back to the rocks because he teaches us how to love one another and that means we won’t be harming others by killing them , cheating them , coveting thier possessions and wives ect

Here’s what I’m saying

“For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


You can’t know God by looking at ten thou shalt nots you have to forget that frame of mind it’s meant for these folks

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers ( this is why it says thou shalt not kill ) of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, ( thou shalt not lie thou shalt not bear false witness ) and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they needed Ten Commandments telling them “Thou shalt not do those things you want to do you ungodly sinners “



To know the truth we have to look at the gospel where he steps forth and says “ here I am and this is what I’m saying will save your souls “

If we do that we won’t kill anyone and the commandment is kept not by looking upon the rock saying don’t kill but by accepting the spirit of life in Christ who teaches us to love truly othere

this excludes murder automatically we don’t need the Ten Commandments we have the lord himself come forth calling us into his doctrine

One covenant was a foreshadow of the other

Your hearing people say “ go ahead and lie go ahead and kill go ahead and worship false gods we’re saved “

abut that’s not what I’m saying I’m saying forget the old covenant goven tbrough Moses at Sinai based upon the Ten Commandments ot isnt for us in Christ it was for those without the spirit or truth or life of the gospel not born again not spoken to like beloved children but rather stiff necked rebels that wouldn’t repent

I’m not saying we should break commandments I’m saying Jesus is the law giver and the gospel is his law

“For the law was given by Moses,

but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[SabbathBlessing]

That’s not what I said at all what I said was if we follow Christ we won’t kill anyone it removes the need for a rock telling you “ thou shalt not kill “

aim sayong that if we learn from Jesus he’s going to teach us how to live right he’s not telling us “ thou shalt not do this thou shalt not do that “ no one could ever learn what to do if we’re stuck thinking God just told us what not to do make sense ?

what im saying is if you forget about the rocks of Moses d turn to the living stone of God you’ll never need to look back to the rocks because he teaches us how to love one another and that means we won’t be harming others by killing them , cheating them , coveting thier possessions and wives ect

Here’s what I’m saying

“For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


You can’t know God by looking at ten thou shalt nots you have to forget that frame of mind it’s meant for these folks

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers ( this is why it says thou shalt not kill ) of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, ( thou shalt not lie thou shalt not bear false witness ) and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they needed Ten Commandments telling them “Thou shalt not do those things you want to do you ungodly sinners “



To know the truth we have to look at the gospel where he steps forth and says “ here I am and this is what I’m saying will save your souls “

If we do that we won’t kill anyone and the commandment is kept not by looking upon the rock saying don’t kill but by accepting the spirit of life in Christ who teaches us to love truly othere

this excludes murder automatically we don’t need the Ten Commandments we have the lord himself come forth calling us into his doctrine

One covenant was a foreshadow of the other

Your hearing people say “ go ahead and lie go ahead and kill go ahead and worship false gods we’re saved “

abut that’s not what I’m saying I’m saying forget the old covenant goven tbrough Moses at Sinai based upon the Ten Commandments ot isnt for us in Christ it was for those without the spirit or truth or life of the gospel not born again not spoken to like beloved children but rather stiff necked rebels that wouldn’t repent

I’m not saying we should break commandments I’m saying Jesus is the law giver and the gospel is his law

“For the law was given by Moses,

but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Did Christ not give credit to God on His commandments? Did not James give credit to God on His commandments? The commandments were repeated because they did not end. Hence why Jesus said- you know the commandments- and quoted directly from the Ten Mat 19:17-19 as did Paul Rom 3:9

Here is the Words of Jesus- was He mistaken to give God the credit?

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (only found in the Ten Commandments) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

James 2:10 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For He who said, - is that not God?

“Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty

Who is the "He who said" and where did these laws come from

You can find all of the He who said only in the Ten Commandments - breaking one we break them all

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Did Jesus misspeak giving God all the Glory? What does that say about us when we don't.

Rev 14:7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”


Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

Jesus tells us to live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God Mat 4:4 so guess we will have to agree to disagree. I wish you well in seeking Truth to God's Word.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Are you sure "the Laws don't exist"? This might not be the best way to state this. Explain?

Let me know which Bible translation you prefer and I can quote from such a Bible.

Romans 4:15 KJV - "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression."
Romans 4:15 NLT - "For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)"

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Let me know which Bible translation you prefer and I can quote from such a Bible.

Romans 4:15 KJV - "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression."
Romans 4:15 NLT - "For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)"

If there is no law to break, that means there is no sin. The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23, so that means no law, no sin, no death. The problem with that is only God is immortal 1 Timothy 6:16 and this takes us back to the very first lie in the garden that we can sin and live, the opposite of what God said. If there was no law, there is no sin and therefore no need for grace or mercy and no need for a Savior who came to save sinners. 1 Tim 1:15 and to save us from sin Mat 1:21

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Good morning, little brother (I think I’m older than you., lol.). You might consider what it is that’s kept in the Ark of the Covenant, which resides in heaven. View attachment 263773 Inside are kept the two tablets that God Himself wrote—not once, but twice.
Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

- Revelation 11:19

Indeed! You have few years on me, but not many.

Yes, the Bible reports that the Ark is in Heaven, but this Ark only figuratively holds the Covenant of the Law, for even the Tablets of Stone are nothing more than a pattern of what is in Heaven. Did you catch that? The physical Tablets of Stone are nothing more than a mere pattern of the Law written upon the Tablets of our Hearts. Our hearts cannot contain these stones, for we are given new hearts not made of stone, but of soft, tender, and responsive flesh.

All things physical are a pattern of the Spiritual World. All things physical, whether events or whether objects, such as Holy Rainbows, all things physical represent the Spiritual world. These are the things that I see the Bible reporting for all to read and experience for themselves.

Have a perfect Day!!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Did Christ not give credit to God on His commandments? Did not James give credit to God on His commandments? The commandments were repeated because they did not end. Hence why Jesus said- you know the commandments- and quoted directly from the Ten Mat 19:17-19 as did Paul Rom 3:9

Here is the Words of Jesus- was He mistaken to give God the credit?

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (only found in the Ten Commandments) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

James 2:10 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For He who said, - is that not God?

“Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty

Who is the "He who said" and where did these laws come from

You can find all of the He who said only in the Ten Commandments - breaking one we break them all

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Did Jesus misspeak giving God all the Glory? What does that say about us when we don't.

Rev 14:7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”


Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

Jesus tells us to live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God Mat 4:4 so guess we will have to agree to disagree. I wish you well in seeking Truth to God's Word.

It’s really hard to discuss with you I give up lol