Salvation is a Free Gift.

[homwardbound]

Amen.

Jesus said so himself. Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3.

7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3:7-8.

There is the physical, and there is the Spiritual. God's Spirit leads as I see to die =daily to that first born me. Not that I always remember to do that. I see it as best for me to remember it and do it in trust to Father and Son for me to walk new, not of the self anymore, of God only as Son did that first for us to see it and be it by belief to doing it daily, thank you
That be born again by God not anyone else

 

[PaulThomson]

I don't believe that to be correct. There cannot be a literal 1000 years after the last trump because after it sounds, there is time no longer. The last trump is the sounded by the seventh angel, upon which sounding, "the kingdoms of this world are become (the kingdoms) of our Lord, and of His Christ" and time exists no longer. At that sounding, and at that sounding alone, the resurrections occur. So, the "1000 years" is a symbolic timeframe that must take place only before the seventh angel sounds, not after it, as the below verses demonstrate. I will try to address your other comments later as time permits.

[1Co 15:52-54 KJV]
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

[Rev 8:2 KJV] 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

[Rev 10:6-7 KJV]
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

[Rev 11:15 KJV] 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

You are diverting the discussion away from the point being made. Jesus says that an hour is coming when ALL who are in the graves will hear the voice of the Son of Man and rise, some to aeonous life and some to aeonous condemnation. So, ALL dead persons will be raised by Christ on the last day, not just the saints. Do you disagree with that saying of Jesus?.
Jesus also knew that ALL THINGS had been given into His hands. Do you disagree With that saying of scripture that the Father had given ALL THINGS, including ALL MEN?

 

[PaulThomson]

After rereading your comment, maybe I am not understanding how you meant the 1000 year day/millennium relative to the last day. Please clarify.

That detail of teleology is irrelevant

Post #4642 focuses the discussion back on the main problem with your interpretation of the verses you cited,

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Every BIBLICAL example of preaching the Gospel and HEARING everyone has understood it.

But some let it lead to Faith and some reject it.

You do not reject something UNLESS you understand it.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You seem to assume it's necessary for a person to give to a church before they can be called a true Christian. You also seem to be assuming the only way to give to God is to tithe or give to a church. As I understand it, a person is only obliged to provide financially to someone who has provided to them spiritually. A person is not obligated to attend some congregation who isn't feeding them spiritually just so they can say they're giving to God. God would rather that person feed the homeless or give to the poor in other ways. But I'm probably just a pseudo Christian with an evil spirit, so what do I know.

You assume that my words only mean as you want them to mean. I am saying since God supplies all of your needs then why would you not give a portion He gives to you back to Him?

Also, the Bible orders to forsake not the gathering together of believers. If you don't have a Church that feeds you then GO FIND one.

Your excuses only matter to you but not to God since His Written Word makes the command.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I think you know that I agree with brightflame52 in his post 612 where he says the natural man, before he has been born again, can hear, but cannot discern what is said, and thinks it to be foolishness.

Every BIBLICAL example of preaching the Gospel and HEARING everyone has understood it.

But some let it lead to Faith and some reject it.

You do not reject something UNLESS you understand it.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

1 Cor 2:14.

Every BIBLICAL example of preaching the Gospel and HEARING everyone has understood it.

But some let it lead to Faith and some reject it.

You do not reject something UNLESS you understand it.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Keep it in context. In Rom 8: 30, If Jesus is what Paul and Peter are talking about, then why do they use the word "them" three tines in this verse?

It is the same "them" that is in Rom 8:1, who are them which are in Christ Jesus.

How do "THEM" get saved?
How do "THEM" get justified?
How do "THEM" get sanctified?
How do "THEM" get glorified?

By the "ONLY ONE FOREKNOWN" before the foundation of the world is how!

JESUS!

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

 

[Cameron143]

How do "THEM" get saved?
How do "THEM" get justified?
How do "THEM" get sanctified?
How do "THEM" get glorified?

By the "ONLY ONE FOREKNOWN" before the foundation of the world is how!

JESUS!

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Biblical knowing has nothing to do with conscious knowledge. It has to do with intimate relationship.
Example...Adam knew His wife.
Example...eternal life is knowing God.
Thus, foreknowledge has nothing to do with God's awareness of future events. It is concerning relationship established before creation.
Incidentally, this is why it speaks of who God foreknew and not what God foreknew.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Biblical knowing has nothing to do with conscious knowledge. It has to do with intimate relationship.
Example...Adam knew His wife.
Example...eternal life is knowing God.
Thus, foreknowledge has nothing to do with God's awareness of future events. It is concerning relationship established before creation.

How are you saved, justified, sanctified, and one day glorified?

By Jesus, who was Foreknown before the foundation of the world is how...correct?

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Verse 21 even states "through HIM" are believers in God.

Through Him or in Him is all saying Jesus was who that was Foreknown before the foundation of the world to save us.

 

[PaulThomson]

Biblical knowing has nothing to do with conscious knowledge. It has to do with intimate relationship.
Example...Adam knew His wife.
Example...eternal life is knowing God.
Thus, foreknowledge has nothing to do with God's awareness of future events. It is concerning relationship established before creation.
Incidentally, this is why it speaks of who God foreknew and not what God foreknew.

So, you are agreeing with FollowerOfShiloh? It sounds like you are. You can't have an intimate relationship with an idea.

 

[Cameron143]

How are you saved, justified, sanctified, and one day glorified?

By Jesus, who was Foreknown before the foundation of the world is how...correct?

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Verse 21 even states "through HIM" are believers in God.

Through Him or in Him is all saying Jesus was who that was Foreknown before the foundation of the world to save us.

We were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. You can try to wiggle around the verse, but it says what it says. And you can try to say knowledge isn't intimacy, but it also is what it is.

 

[Cameron143]

So, you are agreeing with FollowerOfShiloh? It sounds like you are. You can't have an intimate relationship with an idea.

Not at all. He believes foreknowledge is what God knows and not who God knows.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

We were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. You can try to wiggle around the verse, but it says what it says. And you can try to say knowledge isn't intimacy, but it also is what it is.

It says before the Foundation of the world He is how we will be saved. It says IN HIM. It doesn't say we can save ourselves. It says in HIM.

Why do you always ignore the part that says IN HIM?

 

[Cameron143]

It says before the Foundation of the world He is how we will be saved. It says IN HIM. It doesn't say we can save ourselves. It says in HIM.

Why do you always ignore the part that says IN HIM?

I said nothing about saving ourselves. I said biblical knowledge isn't intellectual knowledge, but experiential knowledge. Thus, foreknowledge is not what God knows about, but who He has intimate experience of. Those for whom such foreknowledge is present, these are in Christ.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I said nothing about saving ourselves. I said biblical knowledge isn't intellectual knowledge, but experiential knowledge. Thus, foreknowledge is not what God knows about, but who He has intimate experience of. Those for whom such foreknowledge is present, these are in Christ.

God knows the END from the Beginning.
How can you say He has no Foreknowledge when He knows everything before it ever happens?

Believe what you want to believe but it shows Jesus is the only one who was foreknown and how we would be saved.

Acting like an all knowing, all seeing, all present everywhere God doesn't know something...unbelievable

If God doesn't know 1 single thing then how can He be God?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything

 

[Cameron143]

God knows the END from the Beginning.
How can you say He has no Foreknowledge when He knows everything before it ever happens?

Believe what you want to believe but it shows Jesus is the only one who was foreknown and how we would be saved.

Acting like an all knowing, all seeing, all present everywhere God doesn't know something...unbelievable

If God doesn't know 1 single thing then how can He be God?

You're missing the point. It isn't that God isn't omniscient. He is. But knowledge biblically isn't factual knowledge, but experiential knowledge. It's the difference between knowing about something through the intellect and knowing something through experiencing it.
Before I met my wife in person I knew some things she told me about herself. One thing she said was that she was a good cook. So intellectually I knew this about her. But when we met, I tasted a meal she cooked and it was delicious. Now I knew intimately by experiencing her cooking.
Before someone is saved they know about God intellectually. When they get saved, they know Him experientially. This is biblical knowing.
So...when it says God foreknew those in Christ, He is saying He has experiential knowledge of them.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You're missing the point. It isn't that God isn't omniscient. He is. But knowledge biblically isn't factual knowledge, but experiential knowledge. It's the difference between knowing about something through the intellect and knowing something through experiencing it.
Before I met my wife in person I knew some things she told me about herself. One thing she said was that she was a good cook. So intellectually I knew this about her. But when we met, I tasted a meal she cooked and it was delicious. Now I knew intimately by experiencing her cooking.
Before someone is saved they know about God intellectually. When they get saved, they know Him experientially. This is biblical knowing.
So...when it says God foreknew those in Christ, He is saying He has experiential knowledge of them.

No one has experienced this yet and it is Foreknowledge by God.

8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain
^
This happens at least 6,000 years after the Garden and who knows how many years before God created the foundation of the world.

And none of us know this because the antichrist itself has not been in power to give the Mark but we know it WILL happen.

And we know it was Foreknowledge and will happen.

 

[Cameron143]

No one has experienced this yet and it is Foreknowledge by God.

8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain
^
This happens at least 6,000 years after the Garden and who knows how many years before God created the foundation of the world.

And none of us know this because the antichrist itself has not been in power to give the Mark but we know it WILL happen.

And we know it was Foreknowledge and will happen.

What has this got to do with anything I wrote?