Salvation is a Free Gift.

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rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,884
645
113
#61
Peter tells us in Acts 5 the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Lord, which is Jesus.
I just wanted to see if Roger caught it and actually no one did.
Whether or not you believe it, I did catch it I'm just getting tired of arguing so I'm keeping my replies to an absolute minimum -
not wanting to introduce anything new.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,390
1,006
113
#62
Where do you read that they didn't receive the Holy Spirit. I read that they didn't know about the Holy Spirit -
that they didn't know about Him - that doesn't mean He hadn't indwelled them, only that they didn't know that He did - that's different.
Read the text again.

Acts 19:2
He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him,
“On the contrary, we have not even heard if there is a Holy Spirit.”

Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

The text tells you that you can believe and not have the Holy Spirit.

The apostles did not receive the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost, fact.

The apostles believed in Jesus, after all, they observed the risen Christ.

You can believe but not have the Holy Spirit.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,390
1,006
113
#63
Whether or not you believe it, I did catch it I'm just getting tired of arguing so I'm keeping my replies to an absolute minimum -
not wanting to introduce anything new.
Your theology is flawed.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
715
113
#64
Whether or not you believe it, I did catch it I'm just getting tired of arguing so I'm keeping my replies to an absolute minimum -
not wanting to introduce anything.
Then it confirms preaching the Gospel is inspired Word of God and Paul explains what the Holy Spirit is doing in that process.

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ
and
13 when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit


And we see it matches when Peter was preaching.

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
#65
You receive the Holy Spirit after you believe not before you believe.

Acts 19:2
He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him,
“On the contrary, we have not even heard if there is a Holy Spirit.”

You can believe in Jesus though you are not yet spiritually alive.
You are conflating the gift of the Holy Spirit with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Two different things.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
715
113
#67
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word

Notice, the Holy Spirit did not fall before but WHILE Peter was saying...Preaching the Gospel.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,319
1,448
113
#68
I am moved with the amount of confusion these days about the nature of our salvation. The answer to this question can be different depending on the denomination you attend, but I believe the Bible is clear if interpreted correctly. Salvation is a free gift, that is received through repentance and faith, and it was completely paid for by what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross. All we are required to do is accept it by faith.
I agree that salvation is a free gift! Absolutely - see Ephesians 2:8

I think, though, that the last sentence would be better better stated as something like this: We are privileged to believe in Jesus and his death and resurrection and then to live a life of realness and relationship with God.

"All we are required to do is accept it by faith" in my view is a very poor presentation of Christianity.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,884
645
113
#69
Then it confirms preaching the Gospel is inspired Word of God and Paul explains what the Holy Spirit is doing in that process.

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ
and
13 when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit


And we see it matches when Peter was preaching.

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word
Believing and becoming saved are two different things. Being indwelled by the Holy Spirit is different than being sealed with the Holy Spirit. Being sealed is a result of the Holy Spirit's indwelling. The Holy Spirit's indwelling comes from being saved/born again.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,660
5,908
113
#70
Really? Does the verse say that?
a yeah th scripture says it but no single verses never say but what they say ….

“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:37‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:45-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s pretty obvious why they didn’t hear him isn’t it ? As he was teaching they repeatedly asked about what Moses said trying to accuse him ….because they had no room for his word they already thought the law of Moses was all there would ever be

they didn’t accept Jesus words because of this

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Moses words blinded them to his
they had no room for new doctrine they trusted in the law instead
 

Foghorn

Active member
May 6, 2024
131
29
28
christcentered.community.forum
#71
I am moved with the amount of confusion these days about the nature of our salvation.
Yes, it sure is crazy isn't it?

The answer to this question can be different depending on the denomination you attend,
A denomination will have something to do with it but I believe it goes beyond that.

but I believe the Bible is clear if interpreted correctly.
Agreed, 100% Mainly we have to let God speak for Himself.
Salvation is a free gift,
Indeed it is. But yet, in your next line, you say it is received through repentance and faith. So which is it, free? Or is there something we must do to receive it?

that is received through repentance and faith, and it was completely paid for by what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross.
Respectfully, here you go again. You say it's completely paid for by Jesus and indeed it is. But if that be the case, why do we now have to have faith "and repent" before we receive it? What am I repenting for, what Jesus already paid for? Would it make more sense that we receive the gift of repentance also?
It would seem so since Jesus is also our sanctification.

All we are required to do is accept it by faith
But you said repentance also.


You see, this could be confusing.

Would you mind explaining a little more into this? Thanks
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,390
1,006
113
#72
Whether or not you believe it, I did catch it I'm just getting tired of arguing so I'm keeping my replies to an absolute minimum -
not wanting to introduce anything new.
Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
715
113
#73
Believing and becoming saved are two different things. Being indwelled by the Holy Spirit is different than being sealed with the Holy Spirit. Being sealed is a result of the Holy Spirit's indwelling. The Holy Spirit's indwelling comes from being saved/born again.
You have to believe first before you can be saved.

Acts 10 explains it perfectly.
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word

Notice, the Holy Spirit did not fall before but WHILE Peter was saying...Preaching the Gospel.
 

Foghorn

Active member
May 6, 2024
131
29
28
christcentered.community.forum
#74
In that case, it wouldn't be a free gift. Anything that someone must do to obtain it, makes it theirs only by their doing, and therefore, not a free gift. To be truly free, it must be imputed to someone, placed into their possession in spite of, and apart from, anything they may do, otherwise, it isn't free.

[Tit 3:5-7 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

[1Co 1:30 KJV]
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

[2Pe 1:1 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Amen