Baptism

[Thunderrr-mental]

Desiples picked up baptism of John Baptist

Water baptism

And became tradition

Today baptism in the water manipulation with illusions

Christ baptises by Holy Spirit not by water

Third time of asking now ..

What does this mean

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

 

[obertarti]

In Matthew 28:19, Jesus says, Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit... This verse is part of the Great Commission.

Spiritual baptism in the name of Christ became possible

New International Version
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you

This verse is single in the scripture

Needed confirmation
Without confirmation this verse not desicive

 

[obertarti]

Third time of asking now ..

What does this mean

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

It means tradition not obligation

 

[obertarti]

John the the baptist never Baptised people in the the name of the lord.

Your making it up as you go along.

And baptism is not an illusion it's a commandment, and if you've been baptised in the name of the iord yourself why are you so intent as having it seen as nothing important.

Because water baptism given me nothing

Useless

Whatch reality not your faith which not working

By faith should be obtained something not faith hanging in the air forevever

 

[obertarti]

The pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ .

Resurrection of Christ should come into you inside

Then it is accomplished -baptism

After resurrection you have to see Him

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

It means tradition not obligation

Because water baptism given me nothing

Useless

Whatch reality not your faith which not working

By faith should be obtained something not faith hanging in the air forevever

Thanks for the reply I'll check it out that out with the Words of God 🙂

 

[Wansvic]

Baptism in the name of Jesus by Holy Spirit not in water

Water baptism is baptism from John Baptist

The main context is spiritual baptism by Christ not by people

By hands of sinful people baptism cannot give forgiveness nor put you into Christ

Blindness spiritual everywhere

Please note the scriptures below that reveal baptism in the name of Jesus is water baptism. Each of the detailed accounts show two separate experiences are taking place:

Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women...
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:43-48
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Can any man forbid WATER, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[obertarti]

Thanks for the reply I'll check it out that out with the Words of God 🙂

Nobody accepting prophisy of John Baptist

Accept it and understanding will go other way

Spiritual

Now everything by flesh and activities of hands of human being not activities of the Holy Spirit prevalent

 

[obertarti]

Please note the scriptures below that reveal baptism in the name of Jesus is water baptism. Each of the detailed accounts show two separate experiences are taking place:

Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women...
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:43-48
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Can any man forbid WATER, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

This is past before coming of the Holy Spirit

In house of Kornilius the Holy Spirit showed that baptism in the water not needed
Confirming what was said by John Baptist

Peter by tradition continued it

 

[Chaps]

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I'd rather not characterize views as falling in some ideological camp or other, but merely discuss ideas if you are so inclined.
As to works, anything we do is a work. Obeying any commandment is an act of the will which constitutes a subsequent action on our part. This is not surprising because we were created in Christ Jesus unto good works. So Obeying a commandment does not negate grace, but is a testimony to it. And the grace that births our faith will most certainly have attending works. But by works of the law no flesh is ever justified.
As far as a gift, it certainly can be as you suppose. But receiving in this way is better suited to sanctification wherein we work out our salvation in lieu of the work God is doing in us...Philippians 2:12-13. There is another receiving that is passive. For instance, suppose someone deposited money into your bank account. In this case, you have received a gift without needing to do anything.
This is what I believe happens in Acts 2:37. The Holy Spirit has been placed in our bank account.
I am curious...in Ephesians 2 it says we are dead in our trespasses and sins and are quickened. How do you understand the dead estate and what occurs in quickening?

Hey Cameron,

As promised, I wanted to respond to your question about a person being “dead” in their trespasses and sins and how they are quickened. First I’d like to quote a few passages that discuss this and talk about what is and isn’t being taught in these passages.

Ephesians 2:4–5 (ESV): But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Colossians 2:12–13
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses

I agree with the teaching that all human beings are “dead” in their sins. We are separated from God and spiritually dead. We are condemned, cut off and completely without hope in our sinful state. God alone can bring the dead back to life, grant His Spirit, and provide forgiveness for our trespasses. However, I think those who teach “total depravity” take these texts too far when they liken spiritual death to physical death in their argument that this means those who are dead in their sins are incapable of believing. After all, they argue, the “dead” can do nothing. Spiritual death is not the same as physical death in these contexts. In fact, it seems clear to me in the Colossians passage, that Paul says the Colossians did believe, which resulted in their being raised by God. Not only that, but I think the panoply of Scripture makes plain that even the spiritually dead are responsible for responding to the Gospel. Those who hear are expected to respond with faith, and if they do not, the fault lies solely with them. It is not God who is unwilling to allow a person to be quickened to believe, but the hearer who refuses to accept a message they are entirely capable of accepting.

I do believe it is necessary for God to “draw” people to Himself. However, I think Scripture makes it plain that this drawing is universal. God desires all men to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4). All are drawn to Jesus by the power of the gospel (Rom 1:16; 10:17; 2 Thess 2:14; Heb 4:12), but only some respond (Matt 23:37). Jesus said, “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross, v. 33], will draw all men to Myself” (John 12:32). Denying that the Word of God has the power to draw all sinners to Christ disregards the very purpose and character of the written word as being addressed to sinners.

I also think the book of Revelation makes it plain that God’s purpose in sending hardship, plagues and famines in the world is to cause human beings to repent. He WANTS them to repent.

Revelation 16:10–11 (ESV): 10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in anguish 11 and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds.

The reason for God’s judgment and wrath is not only man’s sin, but also man’s refusal to repent and believe. Jesus said, “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God” (Jn. 3:17). God’s gift of life is open to all. All men are held accountable for their response or lack of response to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is not that they can’t respond, but they refuse to.

In sum, the Bible clearly teaches that God desires all people to be saved. It is not His unwillingness to “quicken” a person so that they will believe, but THEIR unwillingness to come into the light and embrace God’s gift of grace. Even the spiritually dead can hear and respond. If they refuse to, the fault lies with them and not God who is unwilling to quicken them.

Acts 13:46

And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

 

[Magenta]

Spiritual baptism in the name of Christ became possible

New International Version
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you

This verse is single in the scripture

Needed confirmation
Without confirmation this verse not desicive

Men do not spiritually baptize others. Plus, baptism existed before John's baptism.

 

[Chaps]

My rational is that faith is a gift to enter an eternal covenant between Father and Son. Baptism is merely an affirmation of what Christ has done for us and our position in Him. We have already been baptized by one Spirit into His body. That's why we want to affirm His reality in us by being baptized to proclaim our part in His death, burial, and resurrection.

I disagree that faith is a gift, in the sense that God grants us faith to be saved. Eph 2:8 does not teach this. In the Greek, the word faith (pistis) is a feminine gender and the pronoun referring to the gift (toutos) is neuter. If the the gift was referring to faith, then the pronoun would be feminine to match the word ”faith” to which it was referring, if indeed it was referring to faith. No, the construction of this verse makes clear that we are saved by “grace” which is a gift of God, and we receive that gift through faith.

There are other verses people will refer to in order to make this claim, but I do not think any of them make the case. I would go through them all, but I am trying to be more concise. Anyway, grace is a gift of God and we receive that gift through faith. The Bible is very explicit in this teaching.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

This is past before coming of the Holy Spirit

In house of Kornilius the Holy Spirit showed that baptism in the water not needed
Confirming what was said by John Baptist

Peter by tradition continued it

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.
46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.


Peter Water Baptized these Gentiles in the Name of Jesus. You clearly do not understand verses 47-48.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Men do not spiritually baptize others.

Amen. The Operation is God's, eh?

Plus, baptism existed before John's baptism.

Probably why Scripture Records not: "what is this new thing you are doing?",
but This Truth, eh?:

"And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if​

thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?" (John 1:25 AV)​

​

Amen.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

This is past before coming of the Holy Spirit

In house of Kornilius the Holy Spirit showed that baptism in the water not needed
Confirming what was said by John Baptist

Peter by tradition continued it

Maybe I misread this.
Are you saying they were saved and filled with the Holy Spirit before being Water Baptized?

 

[Cameron143]

Hey Cameron,

As promised, I wanted to respond to your question about a person being “dead” in their trespasses and sins and how they are quickened. First I’d like to quote a few passages that discuss this and talk about what is and isn’t being taught in these passages.





I agree with the teaching that all human beings are “dead” in their sins. We are separated from God and spiritually dead. We are condemned, cut off and completely without hope in our sinful state. God alone can bring the dead back to life, grant His Spirit, and provide forgiveness for our trespasses. However, I think those who teach “total depravity” take these texts too far when they liken spiritual death to physical death in their argument that this means those who are dead in their sins are incapable of believing. After all, they argue, the “dead” can do nothing. Spiritual death is not the same as physical death in these contexts. In fact, it seems clear to me in the Colossians passage, that Paul says the Colossians did believe, which resulted in their being raised by God. Not only that, but I think the panoply of Scripture makes plain that even the spiritually dead are responsible for responding to the Gospel. Those who hear are expected to respond with faith, and if they do not, the fault lies solely with them. It is not God who is unwilling to allow a person to be quickened to believe, but the hearer who refuses to accept a message they are entirely capable of accepting.

I do believe it is necessary for God to “draw” people to Himself. However, I think Scripture makes it plain that this drawing is universal. God desires all men to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4). All are drawn to Jesus by the power of the gospel (Rom 1:16; 10:17; 2 Thess 2:14; Heb 4:12), but only some respond (Matt 23:37). Jesus said, “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross, v. 33], will draw all men to Myself” (John 12:32). Denying that the Word of God has the power to draw all sinners to Christ disregards the very purpose and character of the written word as being addressed to sinners.

I also think the book of Revelation makes it plain that God’s purpose in sending hardship, plagues and famines in the world is to cause human beings to repent. He WANTS them to repent.



The reason for God’s judgment and wrath is not only man’s sin, but also man’s refusal to repent and believe. Jesus said, “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God” (Jn. 3:17). God’s gift of life is open to all. All men are held accountable for their response or lack of response to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is not that they can’t respond, but they refuse to.

In sum, the Bible clearly teaches that God desires all people to be saved. It is not His unwillingness to “quicken” a person so that they will believe, but THEIR unwillingness to come into the light and embrace God’s gift of grace. Even the spiritually dead can hear and respond. If they refuse to, the fault lies with them and not God who is unwilling to quicken them.

We definitely see this differently. First, total depravity doesn't mean man is incapable of employing his faculties. They remain in tact. Total depravity simply means every facet or part of man has been corrupted by sin. Total merely means comprehensively.
Second, physical death is a picture of spiritual death. According to Romans 1, we understand the things not seen by the things that are. Man still possesses the ability to know about God, but he no longer possesses the ability to know Him relationally. For example, I know things about George Washington, but I don't know him intimately. And his being dead precludes me from ever knowing him. Likewise, our being dead precludes us from knowing God. Most fortunately, God has made a way for us to know Him. But we must first be quickened, or made alive to Him.
Back to depravity. Notice what takes place in Acts 2:37. God deals with the total man. When they heard this...the mind...they were pricked...the heart...and said what must we do?...the will. Wherever you find genuine conversion, you will find that God has dealt with the entire man.

 

[Cameron143]

I disagree that faith is a gift, in the sense that God grants us faith to be saved. Eph 2:8 does not teach this. In the Greek, the word faith (pistis) is a feminine gender and the pronoun referring to the gift (toutos) is neuter. If the the gift was referring to faith, then the pronoun would be feminine to match the word ”faith” to which it was referring, if indeed it was referring to faith. No, the construction of this verse makes clear that we are saved by “grace” which is a gift of God, and we receive that gift through faith.

There are other verses people will refer to in order to make this claim, but I do not think any of them make the case. I would go through them all, but I am trying to be more concise. Anyway, grace is a gift of God and we receive that gift through faith. The Bible is very explicit in this teaching.

I've heard this explanation before. So let me ask: in verse 9 where it says and this not of yourself, what is not of ourselves? Salvation? Grace? Faith?

 

[Chaps]

We definitely see this differently. First, total depravity doesn't mean man is incapable of employing his faculties. They remain in tact. Total depravity simply means every facet or part of man has been corrupted by sin. Total merely means comprehensively.
Second, physical death is a picture of spiritual death. According to Romans 1, we understand the things not seen by the things that are. Man still possesses the ability to know about God, but he no longer possesses the ability to know Him relationally. For example, I know things about George Washington, but I don't know him intimately. And his being dead precludes me from ever knowing him. Likewise, our being dead precludes us from knowing God. Most fortunately, God has made a way for us to know Him. But we must first be quickened, or made alive to Him.
Back to depravity. Notice what takes place in Acts 2:37. God deals with the total man. When they heard this...the mind...they were pricked...the heart...and said what must we do?...the will. Wherever you find genuine conversion, you will find that God has dealt with the entire man.

Cameron, thank you for your reply. I also agree that we are entirely corrupted by sin. I believe all humans are bound to sin, dead in their sin and incapable of saving themselves. There are none righteous, not even one. However, the theological term “total depravity” speaks to more than just that. It speaks to the idea, as you indicated, that a person cannot even believe the Gospel. I dont think the Bible teaches this at all. Using the phrase “dead in sins” as a catalyst to suggest that sinners cannot believe without God making them believe, I think is a leap the Bible does not make.

I‘m fine with your analogy that you can know things about George Washington but can’t know him relationally because you he is dead. But what I think you are discounting is that God wants us to know Him and the Gospel has sufficient power such that those dead in their sins can hear it. Paul puts it this way,

Romans 1:16–17 (ESV): For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

The Gospel is the Word of God and the power of God to save sinners. God does not have to cause people to believe His Word. It has sufficient power to speak to sinners.

So, let‘s assume for a moment your interpretation is correct. How do you reconcile the notion that God wants all men to be saved, yet He must first quicken the dead so that they will respond and believe? So if a ”whole man” is not dealt with by God, and they cannot believe as a result, then would you argue he does not want all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth? Put in another way, if someone cannot know God relationally (like George Washington) because they are dead, then would it not be up to God to want them to know him relationally?

 

[Chaps]

I've heard this explanation before. So let me ask: in verse 9 where it says and this not of yourself, what is not of ourselves? Salvation? Grace? Faith?

Ephesians 2:8–9 (ESV): 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 2:8–9 (NA27): τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον· 9 οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, ἵνα μή τις καυχήσηται.

The words I have in bold you are referring to. The words literally say, “not from (out of) works/deeds.“. The word ergon is the Greek word for works. As mentioned in my previous comment, the pronoun (touto) is neuter so it cannot be referring to faith.

If I were to diagram the sentence it would look like this…

For you have been saved.
by grace
through faith
This not out of your own works

So, the focus of the sentence is that we have been saved and that salvation is not of our doing. It comes by grace, through faith so that no one can boast.

Is the Gospel the power of God to save us, or does God save us that we might hear the Gospel? I believe the Bible teaches the former, not the latter

 

[Luke233]

The best way to baptized. Any teaching on this please

there is no best way to be baptized, that is a foolish question, and you know this.

water, a man of God to dunk you, and you -- best way ever