Baptism

[obertarti]

Please take note that two separate experiences are actually referenced in John 3:5, and Titus 3:5. And Romans 6 and Colossians pertain specifically to water baptism.

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:5

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5




"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:" Rom 6:3-8


"Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;... Col 2:12-13

Remember the promise given in Acts 2:38 and revealed elsewhere; people who repent and submit to water baptism in the name of Jesus are promised they will receive the Holy Ghost at one point.

Forget about water baptism

It was valid up to spiritual baptism coming into power

“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire

This is prophecy

When Christ started baptism by sending the Holy Spirit from heaven water baptism not needed

Apostle Paul was not sent to baptize in water

All epistles apostle Paul about spiritual baptism and it is very long time can be lasting

The beginning of baptism spiritual is sign of new tongues

Who has received sign still not reintegrated fully into Church

He is member but passive

Active will be when gifts will be given better

For that it is needed full crucification spiritual

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Give you the keys of kingdom -forgive will be forgiven

And who has the key of kingdom today?

Power to forgive sins

Can baptize in water for forgiveness but forgiveness not given - baptizm in water has no power to forgive sins- if baptist without power

Is Christ not also in people.

Who does the baptizing in water ?

People or Christ ?

 

[Wansvic]

Why is this important to you? Seems you have a point you are trying to make about a particular formula necessary for baptism…

It must be scripture speaking to you because my posts concerning the name have been responses to your questions. In your post #89; you said, "it seems you are emphasizing the NAME a lot. Are you arguing for modalism/Sabellianism?"

I responded to comments in your post, but failed to respond to this particular question so I did so in my post #103. The point made was that scripture, not I, placed emphasis on the use of the name of Jesus in water baptism. I referenced those scriptures and included 1 Cor. 1:13. Afterward you asked why I included 1 Cor. 1:13. You did not think it was relevant. (your post 137) I answered that question in post #164.

 

[obertarti]

Is Christ not also in people.

Who does the baptizing in water ?

People or Christ ?

Christ is the power of God and wisdom of God

In Whom you have seen this apart apostle Paul?

For Christ to be in one -one should be baptized into Him

This is two faze spiritual work
First destruction of image of devil in one then rebirth of image of God and then image of God by transition from glory to glory becomes like image of Christ

Image of devil is your old one being
New is one which is born

To be born not possible before circumcision spiritual

Till one has regular sins it is old one alive

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Baptism one that which saving

Saving baptism which put you in Christ

Which one?

By hands of human hands in water?

Who put your spirit in Christ?

Water?

You asked whether baptism in water saves you

What does this mean

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

 

[Wansvic]

IMO, the end of chapter 10 and entirely of chapter 11 make this point. I have highlighted the key verses…

The point I was making pertained to the idea that Peter and the others had decided against water baptism and only changed their mind after seeing God fill them with the Holy Ghost. The account in chapter 11 reveals something far more significant. Individual's who receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost, but are not obedient to the command to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus for remission of sin will not be granted repentance unto life. Those who neglect to give the command, as well as those who refuse to obey the command actually frustrate the purposes of God.

 

[obertarti]

You asked whether baptism in water saves you

What does this mean

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

To be saved is more then forgiveness of previous sins

If you forgiven and taken out if the world you are saved in heaven

If you have to live in the world after forgiveness it is a problem

Water baptism has no power today to forgive your sins

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

To be saved is more then forgiveness of previous sins

If you forgiven and taken out if the world you are saved in heaven

If you have to live in the world after forgiveness it is a problem

Water baptism has no power today to forgive your sins

what does this mean

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

 

[Wansvic]

Baptism one that which saving

Saving baptism which put you in Christ

Which one?

By hands of human hands in water?

Who put your spirit in Christ?

Water?

Water baptism brings about the reality of being placed into Jesus and results in remission of sin. (Rom. 6:3-6)
Whereas the experience of receiving the Holy Ghost is when He comes to dwell inside of us. (Acts 2:4)

 

[Wansvic]

Give you the keys of kingdom -forgive will be forgiven

And who has the key of kingdom today?

Power to forgive sins

Can baptize in water for forgiveness but forgiveness not given - baptizm in water has no power to forgive sins- if baptist without power

Note the scripture says key(s) plural. Not a single key.

Matthew 16:19
"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:...

 

[Wansvic]

Forget about water baptism

It was valid up to spiritual baptism coming into power

“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire

This is prophecy

When Christ started baptism by sending the Holy Spirit from heaven water baptism not needed

Apostle Paul was not sent to baptize in water

All epistles apostle Paul about spiritual baptism and it is very long time can be lasting

The beginning of baptism spiritual is sign of new tongues

Who has received sign still not reintegrated fully into Church

He is member but passive

Active will be when gifts will be given better

For that it is needed full crucification spiritual

The command to be baptized in water in the name of the Jesus for remission of sin was begun on the same day Jesus sent the Holy Ghost/Spirit. (Acts 2:4-39)

Paul's comment about not baptizing has been taken out of context. In fact, Paul was still water baptizing people in the name of Jesus 20+ years after the command was given on the Day of Pentecost. See Acts 19:1-6.

 

[obertarti]

The command to be baptized in water in the name of the Jesus for remission of sin was begun on the same day Jesus sent the Holy Ghost/Spirit. (Acts 2:4-39)

Paul's comment about not baptizing has been taken out of context. In fact, Paul was still water baptizing people in the name of Jesus 20+ years after the command was given on the Day of Pentecost. See Acts 19:1-6.

Baptism in the name of Jesus by Holy Spirit not in water

Water baptism is baptism from John Baptist

The main context is spiritual baptism by Christ not by people

By hands of sinful people baptism cannot give forgiveness nor put you into Christ

Blindness spiritual everywhere

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Baptism in the name of Jesus by Holy Spirit not in water

Water baptism is baptism from John Baptist

The main context is spiritual baptism by Christ not by people

By hands of sinful people baptism cannot give forgiveness nor put you into Christ

Blindness spiritual everywhere

don't see John the baptist here do you

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

 

[obertarti]

don't see John the baptist here do you

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

Desiples picked up baptism of John Baptist

Water baptism

And became tradition

Today baptism in the water manipulation with illusions

Christ baptises by Holy Spirit not by water

 

[Chaps]

I agree that the gospel calls for a response from its hearers. This has always been the case. Isaiah 53 speaks to the accomplishment of salvation. Chapter 54 describes the blessings to be found in it. And chapter 55 is an invitation to partake in it. But by your own admission, the only thing necessary to enter the new covenant is faith. The reason this is so is because unlike the old covenant which was between man and God, the new covenant is between God the Father and God the Son. Thus, because Jesus has fulfilled the covenant, there remains nothing for us to do. We simply enter by faith with no strings attached. By making baptism necessary to enter the new covenant, it alters the covenant. It is no longer fulfilled, and it requires the action of man to fulfill it. It is in effect putting oneself back under a failed and nonexistent covenant.
Do I believe one should be baptized? Yes, of course. As you have said, it is a public proclamation of one's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. And I believe there is grace communicated to the individual who obeys the command. But like circumcision, it remains an outward sign of an inward reality that is its evidence and not its cause.

Thanks for your response. I promise I will get back to the “dead in sins” part, just been kinda busy.

I think the issue here is our definition of “faith.” What is faith? I think it is a huge misfortune that so many Christians today tend to have a more Gnostic approach to Christianity than anything. It is as if “faith” for many is just having a mental affirmation of an idea or series of facts and requires no real action on the part of the hearer. James makes this point that Abraham displayed his faith by what he DID. Faith is not mere mental assent to facts, but an act of trust and commitment to Christ as “Lord.”

Faith is far more than ideas and affirming facts. It is a response of the whole person.

Matthew 7:21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Being a Christian is not about mentally identifying Jesus as “Lord.” It is about living out that trust in him as Lord. Jesus has plainly given His instruction on how to make disciples. He said, “Go, and make disciples by teaching and baptizing.” Learning the words of Christ and being baptized are not WORKS to earn righteousness and they are not contrary to faith. They are acts of obedience to the commands of the one we are putting our faith in. In my opinion, it is an absurd notion to try to lump in repentance and baptism to the same category of legalistic righteousness.

Using the rationale you are proposing, one could argue that it would be ungodly to repent of their sin when putting their faith in Christ, lest they be guilty of trying to do some ”work” to earn God’s salvation. In fact, that is the rationale many give today to continue in blatantly in unrepentant sin. They will say, “Well, we are all sinners. Who are you to judge me?” That is not Christianity and not discipleship. It is not “works” to be obedient to Christ. We are obedient to Christ because of the grace he provides. And he COMMANDS us to be baptized as part of the process of entering the New Covenant and becoming disciples. We dont come to the New Covenant of grace bought by Christ’s blood and dictate by what means we will enter it.

 

[Magenta]

Desiples picked up baptism of John Baptist
Water baptism
And became tradition
Today baptism in the water manipulation with illusions
Christ baptises by Holy Spirit not by water

In Matthew 28:19, Jesus says, Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit... This verse is part of the Great Commission.

 

[Cameron143]

Thanks for your response. I promise I will get back to the “dead in sins” part, just been kinda busy.

I think the issue here is our definition of “faith.” What is faith? I think it is a huge misfortune that so many Christians today tend to have a more Gnostic approach to Christianity than anything. It is as if “faith” for many is just having a mental affirmation of an idea or series of facts and requires no real action on the part of the hearer. James makes this point that Abraham displayed his faith by what he DID. Faith is not mere mental assent to facts, but an act of trust and commitment to Christ as “Lord.”

Faith is far more than ideas and affirming facts. It is a response of the whole person.

Matthew 7:21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Being a Christian is not about mentally identifying Jesus as “Lord.” It is about living out that trust in him as Lord. Jesus has plainly given His instruction on how to make disciples. He said, “Go, and make disciples by teaching and baptizing.” Learning the words of Christ and being baptized are not WORKS to earn righteousness and they are not contrary to faith. They are acts of obedience to the commands of the one we are putting our faith in. In my opinion, it is an absurd notion to try to lump in repentance and baptism to the same category of legalistic righteousness.

Using the rationale you are proposing, one could argue that it would be ungodly to repent of their sin when putting their faith in Christ, lest they be guilty of trying to do some ”work” to earn God’s salvation. In fact, that is the rationale many give today to continue in blatantly in unrepentant sin. They will say, “Well, we are all sinners. Who are you to judge me?” That is not Christianity and not discipleship. It is not “works” to be obedient to Christ. We are obedient to Christ because of the grace he provides. And he COMMANDS us to be baptized as part of the process of entering the New Covenant and becoming disciples. We dont come to the New Covenant of grace bought by Christ’s blood and dictate by what means we will enter it.

My rational is that faith is a gift to enter an eternal covenant between Father and Son. Baptism is merely an affirmation of what Christ has done for us and our position in Him. We have already been baptized by one Spirit into His body. That's why we want to affirm His reality in us by being baptized to proclaim our part in His death, burial, and resurrection.

 

[Magenta]

My rational is that faith is a gift to enter an eternal covenant between Father and Son.
Baptism is merely an affirmation of what Christ has done for us and our position in Him.
We have already been baptized by one Spirit into His body. That's why we want to affirm
His reality in us by being baptized to proclaim our part in His death, burial, and resurrection.

The pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ .

 

[Cameron143]

The pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ .

You would have to know something of this for it to resonate so deeply with you.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Desiples picked up baptism of John Baptist

Water baptism

And became tradition

Today baptism in the water manipulation with illusions

Christ baptises by Holy Spirit not by water

John the the baptist never Baptised people in the the name of the lord.

Your making it up as you go along.

And baptism is not an illusion it's a commandment, and if you've been baptised in the name of the iord yourself why are you so intent as having it seen as nothing important.