Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[Thunderrr-mental]

Go on ahead, you might well be able to say what I'm saying.

Ok we are to fear the one, Jesus who holds the power to life and death as well as love Jesus.

Ultimatly people will fall deeper into sin and i believe there is a cut of point.

I don't think anyone chooses to put themselves in hell I believe God does.

I believe people are blind in the reasoning that hell could ever happen to them.

But what I know is some things are detestable to the lord.

One example is to call a brother a racca, ( a fool), he gets really cross about that one.

But I guess people don't realise when Jesus says he'll he is also giving warning.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Ok we are to fear the one, Jesus who holds the power to life and death as well as love Jesus.

Ultimatly people will fall deeper into sin and i believe there is a cut of point.

I don't think anyone chooses to put themselves in hell I believe God does.

I believe people are blind in the reasoning that hell could ever happen to them.

But what I know is some things are detestable to the lord.

One example is to call a brother a racca, ( a fool), he gets really cross about that one.

But I guess people don't realise when Jesus says he'll he is also giving warning.

Is here @ThereRoseaLamb

brother without a cause shall be in danger of the. judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall. say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

When Jesus says he'll it's not a certainty

He says it's a danger 😊

Which means he warns people with hell first

So I believe like you do that people are not predestined to hell

Hopefully @Charlie_2024 will see it to

 

[Niki7]

I already answered; God does not love unrepentant sinners who are in hell.

You may have lost track here. I was referring to your response to CS1 in which your responded like this:

I never claimed to be of the elect. I never claimed you not to be of the elect.

MerSee, you are all over the place and do not seem interested in an honest discussion.

 

[Niki7]

What is a signature needed for when so many think they can invent their own church just by pretending to believe.!?

Like you?

 

[Niki7]

How can you serve a god that you don't even know if he loves you?

Fear based perhaps? kinda seems like it

 

[Niki7]

Nobody can know if they are of the elect. We obey because we love God.

We love Him, because He first loved us. I John 4:19

God loved us first. If you know God, you would know and understand this. It is in scripture. You either believe it or you do not.

I think you kind of sound like you are hanging off the word 'elect' to save you instead of Jesus.

 

[maxamir]

It's definitely a fair reason to give to someone who rejects God on Judgement Day that He made Himself aware to them.

this is the argument that Paul gives in Romans 1.

 

[maxamir]

No

The gospel is good news to everyone

Now what people do with that good news is on them

No one can say God did not give me a chance,, (well in your doctrine they can. In fact they would have an excuse)

The Gospel is indeed good news to every single person in this world who hears it. It declares the goodness of God's holy, righteous, just hatred of evil and eternal wrath against it as well as His perfectly good mercy, grace and love to those He justly saves from that evil in Christ Jesus.

Do you believe what Scripture says below about the way the Gospel goes forth throughout the world?

2Co 2:14 Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us diffuses the fragrance of His knowledge in every place.
2Co 2:15 For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing.
2Co 2:16 To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. And who is sufficient for these things?

 

[maxamir]

Does not support you.

Unlike you I know God knows all things. He knows who will come to him and who will deny him. SO he is praying for those he KNOWS will come..

true, and the only ones who come to Him are those He has chosen to do so and draws unto Himself. Are the Scriptures below wrong?

Act 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

Psa 65:4a Blessed is the man You choose, And cause to approach You,

 

[maxamir]

He told nicodemus HOW to be born again, when Nicodemus could not understand and asked how these things are so.

As moses lifted the serpent, so to must the son of man be lifted up that whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten SON that WHOEVER believes in him, will not perish but has eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You can spin it however you want, but this is how you are born again.

Why would he say MIGHT be saved if people CANT be saved.

Again, You can not be made alive while your under the penalty of sin.. That one fact destroys fatalism.. They can not get around that fact without destroying Gods perfect justice.

you missed a great portion of Scripture where Christ explains to Nicodemus who that this rebirth is spiritual and outside of the control of man.

Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Nicodemus was the head teacher of Israel but was blinded to this simple truth which the prophet Ezekiel spoke of below, as was the whole nation who were handed over, as prophesied to stumble over this simple truth as you currently also are.

Eze_36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Eze_36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Christ told His disciples that salvation was impossible for men but you seem to insist that Christ was wrong.

Mar 10:26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, "Who then can be saved?"
Mar 10:27 But Jesus looked at them and said, "With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible."

The repentance and faith which God justly commands from all people is only made possible by grace which grants it is a gift of God to His people.

 

[maxamir]

He showed me that also..

I did nto save myself. I became as the tax collector. I pray you did that also.


If they are not saved yet. no one is.. Because God will not force his salvation on you

But as many as have recieved him, to THEM he gave the right to become children of God

You either recieve his grace gift. or you reject his gift

There is no third option.

as long as you still believe that you have the power to choose God you have not yet seen how wicked you are and are not yet truly humbled, but I pray that these exhortations will be used by the Holy Spirit to do so.

Those who received Christ did so because as the verse you quoted says, He gave them the right to do so and the following verse further confirms that it is of God's will and not mans.

Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[maxamir]

Because I have the promise of God.

He said come to me all who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest. I stopped working to try to earn my salvation 40 years ago and became as the tax collector.

God changed my life. I do not question God or his word. he has proven himself faithful not only to the world. but to me so many times. I have lost count

true assurance does not come from looking at a persons faith or works but from trusting in the person and work of Christ who grants this through His Holy Spirit to His children and confirms their salvation to them.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Those who are truly children of God, no longer live for themselves but by the grace of God are made willing to die daily to themselves and live, suffer and die for Him who lived, suffered, died and rose again for them.

If someone put a gun to your head and gave you three seconds to deny Christ or die. What would you do?

 

[Nehemiah6]

as long as you still believe that you have the power to choose God you have not yet seen how wicked you are and are not yet truly humbled, but I pray that these exhortations will be used by the Holy Spirit to do so.

That is hardly the issue. It is not the power of the sinner but the power of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit, both working on the unsaved, that brings them to salvation. Obviously you do not understand the Gospel, and have believed the Calvinistic nonsense.

 

[maxamir]

Both would give glory to God

1. The first guy can not say he saved himself. If it was not for the savior who through him the rope. he would have died.
2. the second is not like the first. You could say in effect. God did what he did to the first guy what he did to the second. Both would be dead if not for the one who was sent to rescue them

Having retired from the US coast guard and seeing many water rescues. No person who is saved by any US COast Guard service man or woman ever boasted of saving themselves. They gave all credit and glory to the one who risked their own life to help save them.

the first man has room for boasting and can thank himself for going to the gym and doing all those wrist strength exercises that gave him such a firm grip on the rope whereas the second man has nothing in which to boast in at all and all of the glory goes to God alone and this is what the Scriptures confirm.

1Co 1:26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
1Co 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
1Co 1:29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

Ultimately, your view comes down to whether man is indeed spiritually dead or not and whether God lied to Adam that he would die that day or not in Genesis 2:17.

 

[maxamir]

That is hardly the issue. It is not the power of the sinner but the power of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit, both working on the unsaved, that brings them to salvation. Obviously you do not understand the Gospel, and have believed the Calvinistic nonsense.

proof of the Holy Spirit working in the heart of a person is that they no longer look to themselves for righteousness and are made to see how unworthy they are of God's gift.

 

[maxamir]

How can a person who thinks that they have a free will and are therefore independent and autonomous from God truly expect to have their prayers for the salvation of other answered?

 

[Nehemiah6]

proof of the Holy Spirit working in the heart of a person is that they no longer look to themselves for righteousness and are made to see how unworthy they are of God's gift.

Now you've gone off on a tangent. When a person hears the true Gospel and that Christ died for his sins, he or she recognizes that they are sinners and need the Savior. The Holy Spirit convicts them while the Gospel proclaims that "there is none righteous, no not one".

So once again you have shown that you really do not understand the power of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit in convicting and convincing people.

 

[Nehemiah6]

How can a person who thinks that they have a free will and are therefore independent and autonomous from God truly expect to have their prayers for the salvation of other answered?

More misunderstanding someone who does not understand the Gospel. Who has been coaching you in this?

 

[maxamir]

Now you've gone off on a tangent. When a person hears the true Gospel and that Christ died for his sins, he or she recognizes that they are sinners and need the Savior. The Holy Spirit convicts them while the Gospel proclaims that "there is none righteous, no not one".

So once again you have shown that you really do not understand the power of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit in convicting and convincing people.

rather than simply making continuous spurious accusations of being wrong, use the Scriptures to do so for they are given for this purpose (2 Tim3:16-17).

It is the Holy Spirit who makes alive the word of God in the heart of spiritually dead sinners. Do you disagree with this statement?

 

[maxamir]

More misunderstanding someone who does not understand the Gospel. Who has been coaching you in this?

why do you not even attempt to discuss the question but immediately fly into accusations?

Is it because it doesn't agree with your theology perhaps and you have no answers to give?