Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.
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Acts 17:26-27
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IN the context of Romans 1:1 - 16:27 So I notice that Romans 3:23 mentions two problem that need solving: All have sinned, and all have fallen short of God's glory. Romans 1-7 explains how Jesus fixed the sin issue. Romans 8-16 explains how God deals with the glory issue. Romans 8 is about those who love God because they believe and understand that He paid for the sins of the whole world, so that any who are willing may come into communion with God. Romans 8 is about the process of being glorified (v. 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with Him. 18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared to the glory which shall be revealed in us.)
In Romans 8:19-27, Paul lays out the reasons we can have strong hope and confidence that God will complete our transformation into glorious joint-heirs with Christ.
v. 19-22 The whole creation is yearning for healing, and that will only be fully realised when the sons of God are fully glorified.
v. 23-25 We ourselves are yearning for a glorified resurrection body.
v. 26-27 The Holy Spirit is yearning and interceding for us to God on our behalf.
v. 28 So (de), we know that all things are working together for good to them that love God and are called according to His purpose.
v. 29 For whom he foreknew, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 So (de), whom he predestinates (at some point: aorist aspect) he also calls (at some point: aorist) ; and whom he calls (at some point: aorist), he also justifies (at some point: aorist); and whom he justifies (at some point: aorist) he also glorifies (at some point: aorist).
Romans 8:28-30 is addressing "those who already love God", so it is those who have understood and believed in the justification by faith explained in chapters 1-7, and made available to all in the universal propitiation of sin by Christ.
Rom. 8:28-29 These are already regenerate. For them all things work together for good, because they are called to the purpose of being conformed to the image and glory of Christ. For those regenerate ones, i.e. the present body of faith that He foreknew/anticipated would come into being in Christ, upon regeneration He set as their destiny to be conformed to the image and glory of Christ, making them truly brothers in nature to Jesus. The glory issue is being solved by the process of sanctification. Those whom God has predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son (glorified), who are those who love God and are already justified and regenerated.
Rom 8:30 So (de), whom he predestinates (at some point: aorist aspect) he also calls (at some point: aorist) ; and whom he calls (at some point: aorist), he also justifies (at some point: aorist); and whom he justifies (at some point: aorist) he also glorifies (at some point: aorist).
The aorist does not specify when in time the action occurred, and considers the action at a single point in time. Context must clarify when that single point in time happens.
The temporal order of the actions according to chapters 1 to 8 and the rest of the New Testament is -
1. God atones for all the sins of all men in the death of Christ; Rom. 3:23-24; 5;18
2. God calls all to put their trust in the crucified and risen Christ; Rom 1:6, 16
3. God justifies and regenerates those who put their trust in the crucified and resurrected Christ; Rom 3:25-30
4. God predestines those who are justified and regenerated to be further sanctified/glorified, being changed from glory to glory Rom. 1:7; 5:1-2
5. God glorifies fully at the resurrection of the just those who were justified and choose to be sanctified through suffering with Christ . Rom. 6:5;
So what do we make of v. 8:30 ?
The conjunction "de" is not cumulative "and", but has an opposing or adversative force "but" or "so".
I see this verse as summarising the force of the argument just made.
Paul begins from where the saints presently are: justified and in the process of sanctification toward glory
In other words, "So, YOU/whom He predestinated to conformity to Christ at the point of regeneration, He called at an earlier point through the preaching of the gospel; And YOU/whom He called at some point through the gospel, He justified at the point that YOU/they believe in the crucified and resurrected Son; And YOU/those whom He justified at the point YOU/they believed in the Son, He glorifies fully at the point of resurrection.
Predestination is not from eternity past. And foreknowing is not knowing the names of all glorified saints before creation or before they were born, but is anticipating the body of believers growing in Christ. The body of Christ that God anticipated would come into being, He predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus.
In Romans 8:19-27, Paul lays out the reasons we can have strong hope and confidence that God will complete our transformation into glorious joint-heirs with Christ.
v. 19-22 The whole creation is yearning for healing, and that will only be fully realised when the sons of God are fully glorified.
v. 23-25 We ourselves are yearning for a glorified resurrection body.
v. 26-27 The Holy Spirit is yearning and interceding for us to God on our behalf.
v. 28 So (de), we know that all things are working together for good to them that love God and are called according to His purpose.
v. 29 For whom he foreknew, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 So (de), whom he predestinates (at some point: aorist aspect) he also calls (at some point: aorist) ; and whom he calls (at some point: aorist), he also justifies (at some point: aorist); and whom he justifies (at some point: aorist) he also glorifies (at some point: aorist).
Romans 8:28-30 is addressing "those who already love God", so it is those who have understood and believed in the justification by faith explained in chapters 1-7, and made available to all in the universal propitiation of sin by Christ.
Rom. 8:28-29 These are already regenerate. For them all things work together for good, because they are called to the purpose of being conformed to the image and glory of Christ. For those regenerate ones, i.e. the present body of faith that He foreknew/anticipated would come into being in Christ, upon regeneration He set as their destiny to be conformed to the image and glory of Christ, making them truly brothers in nature to Jesus. The glory issue is being solved by the process of sanctification. Those whom God has predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son (glorified), who are those who love God and are already justified and regenerated.
Rom 8:30 So (de), whom he predestinates (at some point: aorist aspect) he also calls (at some point: aorist) ; and whom he calls (at some point: aorist), he also justifies (at some point: aorist); and whom he justifies (at some point: aorist) he also glorifies (at some point: aorist).
The aorist does not specify when in time the action occurred, and considers the action at a single point in time. Context must clarify when that single point in time happens.
The temporal order of the actions according to chapters 1 to 8 and the rest of the New Testament is -
1. God atones for all the sins of all men in the death of Christ; Rom. 3:23-24; 5;18
2. God calls all to put their trust in the crucified and risen Christ; Rom 1:6, 16
3. God justifies and regenerates those who put their trust in the crucified and resurrected Christ; Rom 3:25-30
4. God predestines those who are justified and regenerated to be further sanctified/glorified, being changed from glory to glory Rom. 1:7; 5:1-2
5. God glorifies fully at the resurrection of the just those who were justified and choose to be sanctified through suffering with Christ . Rom. 6:5;
So what do we make of v. 8:30 ?
The conjunction "de" is not cumulative "and", but has an opposing or adversative force "but" or "so".
I see this verse as summarising the force of the argument just made.
Paul begins from where the saints presently are: justified and in the process of sanctification toward glory
In other words, "So, YOU/whom He predestinated to conformity to Christ at the point of regeneration, He called at an earlier point through the preaching of the gospel; And YOU/whom He called at some point through the gospel, He justified at the point that YOU/they believe in the crucified and resurrected Son; And YOU/those whom He justified at the point YOU/they believed in the Son, He glorifies fully at the point of resurrection.
Predestination is not from eternity past. And foreknowing is not knowing the names of all glorified saints before creation or before they were born, but is anticipating the body of believers growing in Christ. The body of Christ that God anticipated would come into being, He predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus.
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to Me of My Father...
John3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given Him all things into His hand.
Heb. 1:2 Has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things.
John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world.
1 John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world.
John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice and shallcome forth; they that have done good to the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of damnation.
John3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given Him all things into His hand.
Heb. 1:2 Has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things.
John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world.
1 John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world.
John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice and shallcome forth; they that have done good to the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of damnation.
You seem to have a problem with grasping simple English. I'm not interested in Greeks, in fact my dad aways says not to trust Greeks baring gifts.
You obviously trust in a false bible interpretation, I don't trust Greeks so I study the English Bible. As I said there are 40,000 different interpretations, your interpretation is buried deep among those 40,000 false interpretations. So I don't even consider your view as being biblically valid.
You don't even understand Greek but you have placed your faith in the Greeks rather than God.
You obviously trust in a false bible interpretation, I don't trust Greeks so I study the English Bible. As I said there are 40,000 different interpretations, your interpretation is buried deep among those 40,000 false interpretations. So I don't even consider your view as being biblically valid.
You don't even understand Greek but you have placed your faith in the Greeks rather than God.
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The rebellious son had an inheritance, if He would submit respectfully to trusting his parents. He lost the opportunity to inherit that inheritance through being executed. So, how does a Christian stop being a Son of God? By shrinking back from trusting God and instead living in constant rebellion. There is a second death. Only he that overcomes is promised immunity from the second death. Rev 2:11
no calves here
that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye?
no calves here
Matthew 5:45-48 King James Version (KJV)that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye?
Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
Everyone is elected and everyone is given a seed in his life, the heavenly life that is in all mankinds life receives a seed and a shot at redemption
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye?
no calves here
Matthew 5:45-48 King James Version (KJV)that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye?
Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
Everyone is elected and everyone is given a seed in his life, the heavenly life that is in all mankinds life receives a seed and a shot at redemption
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
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Nothing, but your own free will. You can walk away from the faith. The verses I shared say it, the one in 2 Peter says it.
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
They were bought, we know what bought means. The false teachers were bought and turned astray. I'm not making the claim Scripture is. Clear as day.
Romans 11:22 (RSV) Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.
Galatians 5:4. This verse says, “You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
James wrote, “Brethren, if anyone among James wrote, “Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.”
2 Peter 2:20-22. It says, “For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: ‘A dog returns to his own vomit,’ and, ‘a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.’”
1 John “But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”
Hebrews 3:12. “Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.”
“Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (destruction); but of them that believe to the saving of the soul (Hebrews 10:38-39).”
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
They were bought, we know what bought means. The false teachers were bought and turned astray. I'm not making the claim Scripture is. Clear as day.
Romans 11:22 (RSV) Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.
Galatians 5:4. This verse says, “You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
James wrote, “Brethren, if anyone among James wrote, “Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.”
2 Peter 2:20-22. It says, “For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: ‘A dog returns to his own vomit,’ and, ‘a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.’”
1 John “But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”
Hebrews 3:12. “Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.”
“Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (destruction); but of them that believe to the saving of the soul (Hebrews 10:38-39).”
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
interestingly, the word despotes (master) is never used in the New Testament in a mediatorial sense.
interestingly, the word despotes (master) is never used in the New Testament in a mediatorial sense.
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