Scripture Based Flat Earth Proposition
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It absolutely most certainly is you he should be asking. You made an accusation. He asked for clarification concerning the accusation you made. No one else is going to tell him what you were thinking at the time you made the accusation - that is for-you-and-you-alone to do.
He was even all-nice-and-everything in how he asked you for clarification.
Since you thought it so all-important to express your admonishment-warning to him concerning the (in your eyes) total fallen condition of his faith - will you now not show him the right path of truth according to your love for the truth and your fallen brother?
He was even all-nice-and-everything in how he asked you for clarification.
Since you thought it so all-important to express your admonishment-warning to him concerning the (in your eyes) total fallen condition of his faith - will you now not show him the right path of truth according to your love for the truth and your fallen brother?
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That would have to be one big honking dome! Viewed from the side it would look more like a rounded Washington monument.
For a scale reference, light takes 1/10 of a second to bounce all the way around the world, if you have mirrors stationed strategically in orbit. Light takes 8 minutes to get from the Sun to us. So if the dome flat earth model had the sun at the proper distance, it would be a very tall, very narrow dome.
For a scale reference, light takes 1/10 of a second to bounce all the way around the world, if you have mirrors stationed strategically in orbit. Light takes 8 minutes to get from the Sun to us. So if the dome flat earth model had the sun at the proper distance, it would be a very tall, very narrow dome.
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So - you think 2 Timothy 2:24-26 is BS...??? 
Oh - that's right - you just want to be a troll and stir up something : : rather than show that you are capable of reason in consideration of the proposition offered...
The mud-slinging is never really useful - only a considerate polite discussion of the topic is really worthwhile.
: rather than show that you are capable of reason in consideration of the proposition offered... The mud-slinging is never really useful - only a considerate polite discussion of the topic is really worthwhile.
Of course you're all going to play victim. That way you won't have to take responsibility for the false teachings you're pushing and it's the true Christian that calls them out that are the bad people. That's not the first time this has happened. It is also nothing to play nice and polite - that's how false teachers help to make their poison go down more smoothly. Even if you're nice and polite, you're still trying to push false teaching that will hurt Christians if they accept what you teach.
I still say that you come to God and ask Him where your beliefs don't line up with Him. Not just you but all the people who agree with you - you know who you are! If you really claim to follow Him, if you really claim to live by God's truth, you wouldn't deviate from God's truth as much as you all actually are.
I refuse to point out what doesn't line up because you're just going to argue back with your twisted version of Christianity and waste my time. Also because you've hidden your profile so your old posts can't be traced and no one can know basic info about you. Why hide that???
I don't feel in the least bad about my behavior toward you. You claim I'm breaking 2 Timothy 2:24-26, but I'm not. I think a lot of Christians are not very brave when it comes to pointing out false teaching and false teachers. They don't want to be seen as bad and be falsely accused of things like what you're doing to me now. But I wish more Christians were braver. Then false teaching wouldn't proliferate so much.
I also warn you false teachers because promoting your twisted versions will just get you into great trouble with the Lord. I don't think you have any idea of the terrible consequences you will face if you continue to harden your heart against God and go your own way. You might say you're Christian but hardening your heart can get you to a point where God sees you're no longer His, that you've walked away from Him. Worst part, is that you will think you're still Christian. Or you can just be a total fake who was never a Christian but just wants to make Christians fall away from God and His truth.
Read carefully what 2 Timothy 2:26 says: and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. Right now you're taken captive to do his will to try to deceive Christians into various false teachings.
Warning you is to try to turn you back from your own destruction. This doesn't cheer me up if you do face it. I won't be happy when God has to deal with any of you and the false teachings you're promoting.
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Please excuse this unscheduled interruption but it is...
-impossible to forfeit, turn away from, surrender, loose, the gift of salvation
-impossible to un-redeem, un-justify un-adopt oneself
A salvation that is losable, forfeitable is the false teaching.
Not one scripture teaches this when exegeted in its proper context so do not be so quick to call people false teachers.
I return you to the regularly scheduled program
-impossible to forfeit, turn away from, surrender, loose, the gift of salvation
-impossible to un-redeem, un-justify un-adopt oneself
A salvation that is losable, forfeitable is the false teaching.
Not one scripture teaches this when exegeted in its proper context so do not be so quick to call people false teachers.
I return you to the regularly scheduled program
Yeah, OSAS is false teaching too. The Bible warns about the possibility of falling away but some people don't want to believe that. I don't know why? The Bible also shows how you can keep from falling away. It's not actually hard to keep your salvation.
It IS important though because the Bible says specifically that many will fall away from the faith when the antichrist is revealed. I don't know how anyone can twist it to say that it won't happen. This is why we need to learn to build our faith to endure since we're approaching that point....
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It's not work if you freely choose to abide/remain in God - He does all the work of changing you and growing you into Christlikeness and obedience. I've learned in my own experience with this that if I freely choose to abide in Him, not resisting His work, not grieving the Holy Spirit, He actually caused me to want to abide in Him further. The more you remain in Him and not resist His work, the easier it gets. You'll end being very loyal to Him, even to endure to the end if persecution ever comes.
He gives us free will even now for a very good reason. It's not love if we're forced into this or magically automated. God wants us to abide in Him by our free will/choice.
Would you want someone you love to love you by their choice or to be forced into it? No, you'd want them to love you by their free choice. Otherwise you might as well buy a robot that automatically loves you if there was such a thing.
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I agree completely with all you have written here.
There is a distinction in scripture that needs to be realized, which is when is scripture addressing spiritual salvation and when it is addressing the restored fellowship we have with God >>> the walk.
The first is secure not based on our conduct or lack thereof completely based on the work of Christ Jesus which we have accepted His gift to those who believe in Him for it.
The other which you describe above is the "fellowship" which fluctuates, so yes God wants us to abide in Him this is the result of our restored fellowship with Him not the behaviour required to maintain salvation.
Agree love is a choice.
There is a distinction in scripture that needs to be realized, which is when is scripture addressing spiritual salvation and when it is addressing the restored fellowship we have with God >>> the walk.
The first is secure not based on our conduct or lack thereof completely based on the work of Christ Jesus which we have accepted His gift to those who believe in Him for it.
The other which you describe above is the "fellowship" which fluctuates, so yes God wants us to abide in Him this is the result of our restored fellowship with Him not the behaviour required to maintain salvation.
Agree love is a choice.
The only one here "playing the victim" is you - [just about] everyone else is [simply] trying to have a discussion about the thread topic.
I believe there are a lot of well-meaning "good people" who simply don't know any better...
@Sculpt seems to be trying his best to be polite - are you suggesting that he is "pedaling poison"...???
Or, will you say "Oh, of course not!" just/simply because you agree with him on this topic?
Would you agree that being cordial to others is the way all Christians really ought to be as/in the default-average-normal of daily life?
Yes - we all know about the reality of "bad people" feigning a caring attitude with a veneer of politeness.
However, there are also "good people" who really do actually care and are being sincere - whether right or wrong about some particular thing.
I [choose to] see you as such a person and have nothing against you. In fact, I can certainly appreciate the fact that you would be willing to admonish/warn a brother who you thought had gone astray; however, in this situation, I believe you have gone way-far-beyond that by saying unnecessary things that attack/criticize/question/target the character of others. And, this is where you have made your error. It is-and-would-be far better to "state your case" in the topical discussion than to act like an angry child who whines and throws things. If you really want to "shut someone up" - give them something to think about that will encourage them reconsider their belief. Attacking the character, salvation, etc. of the person never works.
Yes - I know - sometimes it seems to be necessary - I "tell it like it is" to other users on here sometimes myself. But, you have to choose your moments. And, it is never a good moment when you are the person who has swallowed-down-whole the brainwashing you have had since birth - while refusing to consider the possible reality of that - who then proceeds to tell the person who is trying to "wake them up" to the [real] truth that they-are-full-of-it ----- especially when they are trying to show you from scripture the truth of the reality of the world you live in.
What if - just, what if - you discover on Judgment Day that you were the one who would not listen to the truth...??? Hmmm??? What are you going to tell God then...???
Or, I/we are trying to get other Christians to swallow their pride and open their eyes to the [real] truth about the world they live in.
You just might possibly be really surprised at how often I ask the Lord to show me - to the finite detail - where I may be wrong - especially concerning things that I might tell others.
What you do not realize is that you have-been-caused-to-deviate from God's truth - without knowing how it happened.
You have been "trained" from birth - by/with the wisdom of men - to not see the very things we are trying to show you.
You will never be able to see them until you are willing to believe that you have in fact been deceived to such a degree.
"Truth is available only to those who have the courage to question whatever they have been taught." (Author Unknown)
Then - why are you [even] in this thread? Why waste your time?
Why all of the detraction? Why all of the denigration? Is this what you would want if it was your thread?
This thread is for discussing the title topic. It is perfectly okay if you choose to do so in a proper manner.
I am under the impression that you are unable to "point out" anything of value within the thread topic.
"I will believe it when I see it."
Speaking only for myself...
It is not because I am trying to hide anything.
Believe-it-or-not, it comes from a 'sarcastic' take on 'jumping on the bandwagon'.
I have been on this site almost since its beginning - and, have never until recently (that I can remember) hidden my profile (completely). One day I "just up and decided to" after examining the fact that so many people on here - more and more and more as time goes on it seems - are hiding their profile. Quite frankly, it can sometimes be very annoying. But, as a [somewhat] 'sarcastic' maneuver on my part, I decided to do it.
"If everyone else is going to prevent me from seeing their profile - well - I think I will just be that way too."
If it were my website, no user would ever be able to hide the 'basic' information:
~ Gender
~ Age
~ Marital Status
~ Spiritual Status
~ the date the user account was created ('Joined')
~ 'Posts' & 'Reactions'
And, if it were ever discovered that a user lied about their Gender or Age (and possibly Marital Status) - that user would be banned forever from the site.
If it were my website, the blue-or-pink-name scheme would be an integral irrevocable part of the site.
If it were my website, hiding your profile would not be a feature you could turn on or off; rather, it would be "fixed" in the following way. You would not necessarily have to fill in all of the blanks; however, a user's profile page could be seen by any other logged-in user. And, a user's profile would never be seen by the offsite world - only by logged-in registered users of the site.
BTW - albeit a bit inconvenient, you can still find other people's posts without their profile.
I made no such claim concerning you and 2 Timothy 2:24-26; rather, I only pointed out that it was part of what was posted that you called 'BS'.
I am "all for" Christians being 'brave' enough to point out false teaching, etc.; however, they should also be 'wise' - "they had better know what they are talking about before they point the finger"...
But then - this is the real reason - most people know that they do not know enough to be sure about what they would say if they said it - so, they do not say anything.
I am not doing anything to you - it is only an invention of your imagination.
False teaching would not proliferate so much if every Christian knew what the Bible said and refused to override it with 'wisdom of men'.
It is the hearts of those who will not swallow their pride and consider their own vulnerability to deception that are hardened.
Such are "against God" without even realizing it.
Do you always take every issue to the finite limit?
Nope. Rather, you are being held captive by your own pride.
(character count too high - so, continued...)
I believe there are a lot of well-meaning "good people" who simply don't know any better...
@Sculpt seems to be trying his best to be polite - are you suggesting that he is "pedaling poison"...???
Or, will you say "Oh, of course not!" just/simply because you agree with him on this topic?
Would you agree that being cordial to others is the way all Christians really ought to be as/in the default-average-normal of daily life?
Yes - we all know about the reality of "bad people" feigning a caring attitude with a veneer of politeness.
However, there are also "good people" who really do actually care and are being sincere - whether right or wrong about some particular thing.
I [choose to] see you as such a person and have nothing against you. In fact, I can certainly appreciate the fact that you would be willing to admonish/warn a brother who you thought had gone astray; however, in this situation, I believe you have gone way-far-beyond that by saying unnecessary things that attack/criticize/question/target the character of others. And, this is where you have made your error. It is-and-would-be far better to "state your case" in the topical discussion than to act like an angry child who whines and throws things. If you really want to "shut someone up" - give them something to think about that will encourage them reconsider their belief. Attacking the character, salvation, etc. of the person never works.
Yes - I know - sometimes it seems to be necessary - I "tell it like it is" to other users on here sometimes myself. But, you have to choose your moments. And, it is never a good moment when you are the person who has swallowed-down-whole the brainwashing you have had since birth - while refusing to consider the possible reality of that - who then proceeds to tell the person who is trying to "wake them up" to the [real] truth that they-are-full-of-it ----- especially when they are trying to show you from scripture the truth of the reality of the world you live in.
What if - just, what if - you discover on Judgment Day that you were the one who would not listen to the truth...??? Hmmm??? What are you going to tell God then...???
Or, I/we are trying to get other Christians to swallow their pride and open their eyes to the [real] truth about the world they live in.
You just might possibly be really surprised at how often I ask the Lord to show me - to the finite detail - where I may be wrong - especially concerning things that I might tell others.
What you do not realize is that you have-been-caused-to-deviate from God's truth - without knowing how it happened.
You have been "trained" from birth - by/with the wisdom of men - to not see the very things we are trying to show you.
You will never be able to see them until you are willing to believe that you have in fact been deceived to such a degree.
"Truth is available only to those who have the courage to question whatever they have been taught." (Author Unknown)
Then - why are you [even] in this thread? Why waste your time?
Why all of the detraction? Why all of the denigration? Is this what you would want if it was your thread?
This thread is for discussing the title topic. It is perfectly okay if you choose to do so in a proper manner.
I am under the impression that you are unable to "point out" anything of value within the thread topic.
"I will believe it when I see it."
Speaking only for myself...
It is not because I am trying to hide anything.
Believe-it-or-not, it comes from a 'sarcastic' take on 'jumping on the bandwagon'.
I have been on this site almost since its beginning - and, have never until recently (that I can remember) hidden my profile (completely). One day I "just up and decided to" after examining the fact that so many people on here - more and more and more as time goes on it seems - are hiding their profile. Quite frankly, it can sometimes be very annoying. But, as a [somewhat] 'sarcastic' maneuver on my part, I decided to do it.
"If everyone else is going to prevent me from seeing their profile - well - I think I will just be that way too."
If it were my website, no user would ever be able to hide the 'basic' information:
~ Gender
~ Age
~ Marital Status
~ Spiritual Status
~ the date the user account was created ('Joined')
~ 'Posts' & 'Reactions'
And, if it were ever discovered that a user lied about their Gender or Age (and possibly Marital Status) - that user would be banned forever from the site.
If it were my website, the blue-or-pink-name scheme would be an integral irrevocable part of the site.
If it were my website, hiding your profile would not be a feature you could turn on or off; rather, it would be "fixed" in the following way. You would not necessarily have to fill in all of the blanks; however, a user's profile page could be seen by any other logged-in user. And, a user's profile would never be seen by the offsite world - only by logged-in registered users of the site.
BTW - albeit a bit inconvenient, you can still find other people's posts without their profile.
I made no such claim concerning you and 2 Timothy 2:24-26; rather, I only pointed out that it was part of what was posted that you called 'BS'.
I am "all for" Christians being 'brave' enough to point out false teaching, etc.; however, they should also be 'wise' - "they had better know what they are talking about before they point the finger"...
But then - this is the real reason - most people know that they do not know enough to be sure about what they would say if they said it - so, they do not say anything.
I am not doing anything to you - it is only an invention of your imagination.
False teaching would not proliferate so much if every Christian knew what the Bible said and refused to override it with 'wisdom of men'.
It is the hearts of those who will not swallow their pride and consider their own vulnerability to deception that are hardened.
Such are "against God" without even realizing it.
Do you always take every issue to the finite limit?
Nope. Rather, you are being held captive by your own pride.
(character count too high - so, continued...)
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I think it interesting how people treat the [mere] idea of 'Flat Earth' like it was far worse than all manner of sin and evil.
"Kill your neighbor, rape his wife - but, oh my, the worst damnable thing there is in existence is not believing the earth is a spinning ball flying through space!"
"Kill your neighbor, rape his wife - but, oh my, the worst damnable thing there is in existence is not believing the earth is a spinning ball flying through space!"
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I think it interesting how people treat the [mere] idea of 'Flat Earth' like it was far worse than all manner of sin and evil.
"Kill your neighbor, rape his wife - but, oh my, the worst damnable thing there is in existence is not believing the earth is a spinning ball flying through space!"
"Kill your neighbor, rape his wife - but, oh my, the worst damnable thing there is in existence is not believing the earth is a spinning ball flying through space!"
Considering the state of the world at this moment and what people have chosen to defend belief in flat earth is rather innocuous.
I have over the years been intrigued by this model, I just never can find the time to really learn about it.
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Except rarely is it merely a belief that the earth is flat. It is almost always paired with the idea that they are superior, have knowledge others are too stupid, duped, and/or uneducated to be aware of, and anyone who does not adhere to their model is deceived, buying wholesale the lies that we are bombarded with from the likes of many highly educated scientists, astrophysicists, astronomers, etc, and especially NASA.
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In short, the Flat Earth model is this:
~ you live in a giant terrarium
~ the earth does not move and has a plane surface (in the largest sense)
~ the sun, moon, and stars circle overhead under the 'dome' (top of terrarium)
~ the Bible says nothing against this model and everything for it to support it
~ you live in a giant terrarium
~ the earth does not move and has a plane surface (in the largest sense)
~ the sun, moon, and stars circle overhead under the 'dome' (top of terrarium)
~ the Bible says nothing against this model and everything for it to support it
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