What is the point of having a theoretical never-ending existence called aoenous life. if it is spent out of trusting fellowship with God because of pushing God away so we can do what pleases us?
Predestination is misunderstood...
- Thread starter Genez
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We are not there yet.... We only have a guaranteed seat on the plane that will take us there.
Right now we must battle with good and evil in the Devil's world..
tEi gar kariti (For by grace) este (you are, pl. ) sesOsmenoi (having been saved: perfect passive participle) dia tEs piseOs (through faith) kai touto (and that) ouk (not) ex humOn (out of you) theou (of God) to dOron (the gift).
For by means of grace you were saved and are continuing to be saved through faith, and that is the gift of God not [originating] from you.
The present perfect passive participle indicates that you were saved in the past by faith and are continuing to be saved in the present by faith. This implies that we must be believing in the past to be saved in the past, and we must be believing in the present to continue to be saved in the present.
As an example, part way through fighting a forest fire the firemen are told, "You have been protected from the fire by your fire-proof suits, and you didn't provide them yourselves, they were provided to you by the fire department."
Is their "having been protected by the fire-proof suits" transitory, or permanent? Clearly having been protected up to now depended on wearing the suits. And continuing to be in that protected state depends on continuing to wear the suits. And taking off the suit means one will lose their protection from the fire.
Are you serious, King James already translated the Bible to English a long time ago.
Why on earth would go and do something silly like study those languages. The only reason anyone ever appeals to those translations is because they have an agenda and they use those languages to build a false theology.
A wise man takes advantage of all the knowledge, which the Church fathers passed down to us over millennia. There's nothing new for us to discover in the 21'st century.
God said all things remain the same, there is nothing new under the sun, but wise guys always seek new things. God said "they are always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the Lord".
tEi gar kariti (For by the grace) este (you are, pl. ) sesOsmenoi (having been saved: perfect passive participle) dia tEs piseOs (through the faith) kai touto (and that) ouk (not) ex humOn (out of you) theou (of God) to dOron (the gift).
For by means of grace you were saved by faith and are continuing to be saved through faith, and that is the gift of God not [originating] from you.
The present perfect passive participle indicates that you were saved in the past by faith and are continuing to be saved in the present by faith. This implies that we must be believing in the past to be saved in the past, and we must be believing in the present to continue to be saved in the present.
As an example, part way through fighting a forest fire the firemen are told, "You have been protected from the fire by your fire-proof suits, and you didn't provide them yourselves, they were provided to you by the fire department."
Is their "having been protected by the fire-proof suits" transitory, or permanent? Clearly having been protected up to now depended on wearing the suits. And continuing to be in that protected state depends on continuing to wear the suits. And taking off the suit means one will lose their protection from the fire.
Right now we have access with boldness into God's presence on the plane. and into intimate communion with Him through Christ whenever we want it by grace through faith. If we don't take advantage of that access now during the flight, why would we suddenly want it when the plane lands?
Peter denied Jesus nine times. six times before the cock crowed once, and three more times before the cock crowed a second time. But Jesus was not wrong. He gave Peter more credit than Peter proved worthy of.
OK, now you've come out in support of John Calvin. He also taught that "it doesn't matter what good you do" but he didn't only apply it to support a particular view. It was a part of the gospel for him, so it wasn't dispensable.
I must judge everyone according to their fruit in order to obey God. He gave me wisdom, to discern so I don't fall victim to wolves in sheep's clothing. I must judge everyone through the lens of the gospel, and expose false teachers so new converts can take advantage of my wisdom, and not fall for the schemes of the enemy.
I don't think in terms of losing salvation. Salvation is from some things and to some things. If we fail to avail ourselves of some of the deliverance Jesus is providing and/or some of the blessings he is offering, we are forfeiting those benefits of receiving Him that we were given access to when we believed, for as long as we fail to avail ourselves of them. Salvation is a expansive smorgasbord of elements. And we are necessarily forfeiting them all or experiencing them all at any time.
Full salvation is being fully conformed to Jesus Christ. Being saved is the process of atonement, justification, sanctification and glorification that gets us there. Any step along the way is "being saved".
Adam saw Eve. Adam noticed all kinds of things about Eve. Adam talked with Eve. Adam explored the garden with Eve. Adam knew Eve and had Abel.
Is there not a greater quality of relationship in knowing Eve vs. seeing, observing, accompanying, and conversing with Eve. Doesn't "knowing God" convey a higher quality of relationship with God than hearing about God, thinking about God, and trying to obey what I am told are God's commands?
However, "knowing God" gives no measure of duration. It is either a present reality, in which case I am experiencing aeonous life NOW; or it is not a present reality, in which case I am not experiencing aeonous life now. What is the point of building a theoretical casefor me having something that I am not experiencing anyway?
That should say "And we NOT are necessarily forfeiting them all or experiencing them all at any time.
So, you're actually suggesting that sinners need to complete the work which the Lord failed to finish on the cross. That sounds like an entirely different gospel to me, the Lord said "it is finished" but you come along and say "nay Lord, you failed to finish the job", so we need to finish the job for Him.
Your summary doesn't align with the biblical gospel, it may tickle the ears of those who seek to attribute salvation to their good works. But it falls flat on it's face when compared to the biblical gospel.
It is undoubtedly a different gospel from what you are peddling. We have to cooperate with God's work of justification, and sanctification to be presented body. soul and spirit blameless at His coming.
"It" is a pronoun. It stands in for a noun. Contextually, which noun is "it" referring to?
So, in your estimation. We can take or leave elements of what Christ is offering us, just like a smorgasbord. That flies in the face of scriptures like "Ye shall live by every Word that proceeds from My mouth". You say, no Lord I will choose to obey only those things which I deem to be acceptable And I will reject the rest
Is it possible that "continue to be saved" can be rephrased as "kept safe", that is, kept saved?