Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Rufus]

Within back to back posts you have completely contradicted yourself.

It's impossible to align if there's 2 different meanings...

Unbelievable!
Reformed at its finest...

No I have not. They align, i.e. are NON-CONTRADICTORY and, therefore, complement each other precisely because both passages are talking about Jacob and Esau from different perspectives. You clearly do not understand the Law of Noncontradiction.

 

[selahsays]

Because what he said about Jacob/Esau "does not align" with what God instructed the Prophets to say about the matter.
And Scripture must "ALWAYS FLOW" in harmony.

What did God instruct the Prophets to say about the matter? I’m just trying to understand. Thanks.

 

[Rufus]

You have no idea that God wants us to love our enemies? While you say He cannot love sinners? We were dead in our sins when Christ died for us. That fact is offered as proof of His love for us.[/QUOTE]

I don't say that God cannot love sinners. Scripture teaches that. Do you deny that teaching?

As far as us loving our enemies goes does not prove that God also loves his enemies. Your proposition presupposes that we mere mortals share God's divine prerogatives. We are commanded to love our enemies precisely because we don't have God's divine attributes as in knowing all hearts in the way He only can. This is why "love for our enemies" comes with divinely-ordained guidelines, e.g. Mat 7:6; Jas 4:4, etc.

P.S. We WERE dead in time and space which is why Paul says God loves us presently. But not in eternity.

 

[selahsays]

No I have not. They align, i.e. are NON-CONTRADICTORY and, therefore, complement each other precisely because both passages are talking about Jacob and Esau from different perspectives. You clearly do not understand the Law of Noncontradiction.

Why, even before Esau was born, did God hate him? Did God in the first earth age likewise despise Esau? Or does it really matter why, other than what Romans 9 makes very clear?

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God."

- Romans 9:11-26

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

What did God instruct the Prophets to say about the matter? I’m just trying to understand. Thanks.

1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say: 'Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD; yet I loved Jacob;

3 But Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and gave his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness.


...Nothing about hating Esau before he was born.
...But clearly about Election.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

The scripture wasn't complete yet. That admonition doesn't come until the end of Revelation.

On the subject of Esau/Jacob it was already established by God.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

No I have not. They align, i.e. are NON-CONTRADICTORY and, therefore, complement each other precisely because both passages are talking about Jacob and Esau from different perspectives. You clearly do not understand the Law of Noncontradiction.

I have read all of your posts and most assuredly know you do not understand contradiction because "numerous posters" have addressed you concerning your habitual habit of doing it.

 

[selahsays]

1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say: 'Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD; yet I loved Jacob;

3 But Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and gave his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness.


...Nothing about hating Esau before he was born.
But clearly about Election.

Okay; I see your point. To me, though, I consider the whole Word of God. Thanks.

 

[Magenta]

I don't say that God cannot love sinners...

God cannot love sin or the sinner. And he can't love the latter because sinners' hearts are the wellspring of evil...

Your very words prove that you really did in actual fact say what you now claim you did not. They are the very words I quoted which started this round of our exchanges with each other. Why do you deny it?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Okay; I see your point. To me, though, I consider the whole Word of God. Thanks.

But the whole Word of God should never contradict when God tells a Prophet what to say and then what Paul writes. It should say the exact same thing. God Commanded to never ADD to His Written Established Word.

 

[selahsays]

1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say: 'Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD; yet I loved Jacob;

3 But Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and gave his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness.


...Nothing about hating Esau before he was born.
...But clearly about Election.

Also, we need to consider that Election happened before the foundation of the world, right?

 

[selahsays]

But the whole Word of God should never contradict when God tells a Prophet what to say and then what Paul writes. It should say the exact same thing. God Commanded to never ADD to His Written Established Word.

But Paul was a chosen vessel—God chose him specifically to write most of the NT, right?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Also, we need to consider that Election happened before the foundation of the world, right?

Malachi is talking about Election and Election is a fact we already understand.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

But Paul was a chosen vessel—God chose him specifically to write most of the NT, right?

Do you think when Paul wrote Speaking in Tongues was the language of Angels, when we know it is not, he was Inspired to write such a thing?

Or was Paul writing on his own thinking to prove a point?

 

[BillyBob]

You so desperately need Paul or your doctrine is a sham. This is priceless.

By the time you get through eliminating the words of all the apostles, there will not be anything remaining in the Bible other than the old testament!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

By the time you get through eliminating the words of all the apostles, there will not be anything remaining in the Bible other than the old testament!

I am not eliminating anything but using your own tactic against you. You and others like You claim scripture must harmonize. If it harmonizes it will repeat word for word.

 

[Cameron143]

On the subject of Esau/Jacob it was already established by God.

Sure. And God added further information through Paul.
Do you know everything about salvation from the OT? Or did your knowledge of salvation enlarge as a result of the information found in the NT?

 

[selahsays]

Malachi is talking about Election and Election is a fact we already understand.

Yes. Malachi was talking about Election. Are you saying God chose Paul by mistake? (just kidding, but you know what I mean).

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Sure. And God added further information through Paul.

I showed you when Paul tells us this is from God he specifically mentions it. Since there's no mention of that, how do you know this was not just what Paul is saying it to confirm his stance on election?

 

[selahsays]

I showed you when Paul tells us this is from God he specifically mentions it. Since there's no mention of it how do you know this was not just what Paul believes?

…because the Bible (all of it) is the inspired Word of God.