Predestination is misunderstood...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
So you just sin and sin and sin and never say to God I am sorry for sinning?

That's the same thing sinners without God do!
Did I say this

Did you read anything I wrote? it appears not. Because if you did, you would not make such a ridiculous statement’

First you falsly accuse me of saying something I did not say.

then you continue the nonsense after I attempted to correct you.

How can you plan on having an honest conversation when you do things like this?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,462
589
113
does predestine people to hell before there born.

And I'm not wanting your scripture, that' well if a person does xyc than yes.

I want you to answer if God predestines people to be saved first.
Deal with what I posted. Did I use scripture for that ?
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
It's a personal one on one belief.
This is what they believe.
They are being sincere about what they say.
This belief goes deep to the inner core of who they are.

It's like changing brake pads, checking the rotors and cylinders.
You now firmly believe when you want to "STOP," the combination of pad/cylinders/rotors will work together and cause you to stop.

And for this type of belief concerning Grace is not an experienced one (because no one dead has ever reported back if it worked or not). So it's a taught belief. And that goes all the way back to whomever first introduced such a doctrine.
oh I see.

Well I will help you out a bit with this. 🙂

I know that the brain has an inner deep conscience that stores memories from your conscious state.

The consciousness is at the front of the brain it processes thoughts every 24 hours but is unable to store all the millions of thoughts it processes every day.

Only your inner conscience does that but it only stores what your 24 hour processer deems relevant.

So once the memory is stored, that's it, it won't accept anything else without a major battle
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
Did I say this

Did you read anything I wrote? it appears not. Because if you did, you would not make such a ridiculous statement’

First you falsly accuse me of saying something I did not say.

then you continue the nonsense after I attempted to correct you.

How can you plan on having an honest conversation when you do things like this?
lol
I presented an answer based off what you provided by claiming you do not need forgiveness.
If you do not need forgiveness it means you have never sinned or you do sin and sin and sin and just believe you are forgiven.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
oh I see.

Well I will help you out a bit with this. 🙂

I know that the brain has an inner deep conscience that stores memories from your conscious state.

The consciousness is at the front of the brain it processes thoughts every 24 hours but is unable to store all the millions of thoughts it processes every day.

Only your inner conscience does that but it only stores what your 24 hour processer deems relevant.

So once the memory is stored, that's it, it won't accept anything else without a major battle
This is actually a very truthful, logical, and correct response.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,502
713
113
Perhaps they smell better than they feel? .:unsure::giggle:

PS~ I have had that pic of a calf for many years. So sweet!
I have made pets of a variety of domestic and wild critters. They can teach us much, and they each have their own distinctive aroma.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
980
198
43
68
Australia
I don't necessarily disagree. But I also think it was part of the creation mandate to exercise dominion over God's creation.
I agree and I think this was how God revealed Adam was listening to Him in the exercise of that dominion. Afterall, even Jesus said (during the Incarnation) "I can do nothing of myself"

John 8:28
Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,207
113
Sheesh, I had to go back to gather the reason everyone is feeling and smelling animals.

Before eating, they were naked and not ashamed, and after eating, their eyes were opened, and they hid so I assumed they hid because they were ashamed when they saw that they were naked. When God inquired, 'who told you that you were naked...did you eat of the tree that I told you not to eat of?" So, since there is no verse that says that anyone told them they were naked God surmised they had eaten from the tree and judged themselves 'exposed.' And God made them coverings, to comfort their distress... Were they always 'naked' in every sense? As they were naked, both before and after, in the physical sense, were they right to regard themselves as 'naked' after eating? Christ is slain from before the foundation of the world so, should they have ever considered themselves 'uncovered' at all?

I don't know if anyone is staying with me on this trail so, I'll leave it there, but

The cat was named "katool" which means 'diaper,' as is characteristic of cats to slink around one's legs, and the dog was named "kelev" or "caleb" which means "all heart," as is characteristic of the dog's inability to resist being led by its heart's desire nor to hide its emotion.

But, indeed, my cat feels and smells like my old teddy bear...or is it that old fashioned teddy bears smell like my cat because they used to use real cat furs to make them. I guess they were utilized in making rabbits' feet charms also.
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
696
86
28
Yes, faith is a gift from God, it comes from the word. (Rom.10:17) Our believing or unbelieving, ie agreeing or disagreeing with the truth is not a gift, it is an inherent ability as part of God's design for humanity, it is called volition. (Obviously the act of creation itself is a gift but I think you can understand I am distinguishing here between a gift without merit and a gift that is needed for existence)

We are saved by grace, God's power to effect His will on the basis of who and what He is, through faith, the working of the word within a believer, specifically the word of the Gospel.
your response is incoherent. First you say faith is a gift but somehow faith in the truth is not a gift of grace from God?
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
696
86
28
Faith comes by hearing the Word of Christ...... Romans 10:17

Faith is Bible knowledge that has been understood and believed.
the reason why it is understood and believed is because of grace.
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
696
86
28
The exhaustive divine pre-determinist idea of Goodness, because no one is perfectly good but God, is to think up all kinds of tortures that can be done on women, children, babies, animals, and men, and then to create a world where a whole litany of those terrors are scripted by the only really Good One to be executed on and by the creatures made, most of whom the Good One has destined from the beginning to be tormented in fire forever for doing the things he designed and designated them for. That's not a high bar for me to achieve, to be better than the perfectly Good One of your religion. Your imagined creator is nothing like Jesus.

I have a much more kind, compassionate, loving, guileless and worship-worthy Creator to serve than yours.. My Creator looks more like Jesus Christ than yours, who sounds more like the being we call satan.
God is indeed loving, patient and merciful but He is also perfectly holy, hates evil and loves justice so much He killed every man, woman, child and animal in the Flood bar eight and even killed His own Son at the hands of evil men to save those He loves but you do not yet know this God of Holy Scripture and have made a god to suit yourself and unless He grants you grace you are going to be in for a quite a shock when you stand naked before Him.

Psa 50:21 These things you have done, and I kept silent; You thought that I was altogether like you; But I will rebuke you, And set them in order before your eyes.

2Co 5:11a Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
696
86
28
That's what your god is telling you. Your god has been a liar and a murderer from the beginning. I don't listen to him. Jesus' sheep know Him and listen to His voice. I listen to what Jesus says about babies, and that is nothing like what you are hearing from your god.
Where did Jesus say that all babies go to Heaven? If all babies go to Heaven then God saves by age and not by grace.
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
696
86
28
Grace belongs to A kind heart, generally speaking it speaks about how to make people feal loved.

Where as some people just use it to argue
Grace belongs to God and He only gives it to the humble.

Jas_4:6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "GOD RESISTS THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE."

1Pe_5:5 Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for "GOD RESISTS THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE."