Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[FollowerofShiloh]

What do you think hina means in this text.? Do you think it is clearly translated in most Bibles? How does reading hina as "in order that/ so that change the meaning of the passage?

Hina is the suggested TR translation but the original text derives from ἵνα which means "fiber." Hence it's connecting the intent of the Father's Will and Its connection to those who do it.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Why does "Independent Translation" mean "without personal viewpoints and opinions" ?

Most people on this forum use a Linear Compositor version. Linear Compositor versions for the most part is someone's personal translation. Generally speaking, personal translation also reveals great bias when you do a side by side comparison. Essentially, the poster using such linear Compositor versions does so because it matches "their interpretation/personal viewpoint" of scripture the best.

 

[PaulThomson]

Hina is the suggested TR translation but the original text derives from ἵνα which means "fiber." Hence it's connecting the intent of the Father's Will and Its connection to those who do it.

But hina/so that in John 6:29 is translated as if it were hoti./that What does the text say if it is read as hina, so that, and introduces the purpose of the predeeding "this/touto?

The same error occurs in 6:39, where hina/so that is again translated as if it were hoti/that. Again, what does 6:39 say if hina is translated as so that, and introduces the purpose for the preceeding this/touto.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

But hina/so that in John 6:29 is translated as if it were hoti./that What does the text say if it is read as hina, so that, and introduces the purpose of the predeeding "this/touto?

The same error occurs in 6:39, where hina/so that is again translated as if it were hoti/that. Again, what does 6:39 say if hina is translated as so that, and introduces the purpose for the preceeding this/touto.

Not sure where you're looking at for your information but INA, not hina is derived from ἵνα which means fiber in the Koine Greek.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Everlasting-Grace said:
This makes no sense
Jesus told many. You do not hear because you do not believe.





I do not see in your citation where those without faith cannot hear Jesus ' words. The people He was talking to heard what he said, but they did not believe them, they did not drink them. So, although they heard Jesus' words, they were not benefitted by Jesus words, because the words they heard were not mixed with faith.

i think we are stuck with a flawed language

When I say they did nto hear. I mean they did nto understand. Their hearts would not let them understand, because to understand, they would have to admit they were in error.

Again, This happens all the time. look in here..

 

[Magenta]

When I say they did nto hear. I mean they did nto understand. Their hearts would not let them understand, because to understand, they would have to admit they were in error.

Again, This happens all the time. look in here..

That just happened to me ... I said one thing and the person I was speaking to interpreted what I said to mean exactly the opposite of what I had told him, and then he's saying there's something wrong with me, when he refuses to admit his error, and that he falsely accused me based on his complete lack of comprehension, even though I spoke quite plainly.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That just happened to me ... I said one thing and the person I was speaking to interpreted what I said to mean exactly the opposite of what I had told him, and then he's saying there's something wrong with me, when he refuses to admit his error, and that he falsely accused me based on his complete lack of comprehension, even though I spoke quite plainly.

Sadly, when people say stuff we do not want to hear. Thats what ends up happening..either that or we are stuck in a doctrine, and hear key words, like OSAS. And automatically assume Calvinism. So all we hear is what we want to hear to prove they are a calvinist. Or whatever group we are trying to defeat.

 

[Magenta]

Sadly, when people say stuff we do not want to hear. Thats what ends up happening..either that or we are stuck in a doctrine, and hear key words, like OSAS. And automatically assume Calvinism. So all we hear is what we want to hear to prove they are a calvinist. Or whatever group we are trying to defeat.

It had nothing to do with doctrine... it was just his complete lack of understanding of what I said even though I was quite plain in explaining myself ... he twisted what I said to mean the exact opposite of what I had actually said, refused to admit his error, and falsely accused me a number of times while refusing to own up to his lack of comprehension.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It had nothing to do with doctrine... it was just his complete lack of understanding of what I said even though I was quite plain in explaining myself ... he twisted what I said to mean the exact opposite of what I had actually said, refused to admit his error, and falsely accused me a number of times while refusing to own up to his lack of comprehension.

Its sad people are to proud to admit when they error. When yu told him he misrepresented you. He probably laughed it off..

I sometimes wonder why these people are allowed to hang around. I am sorry you had to go through this.

 

[Magenta]

Its sad people are to proud to admit when they error. When yu told him he misrepresented you. He probably laughed it off..

I sometimes wonder why these people are allowed to hang around. I am sorry you had to go through this.

Oh he basically told me how sad it was what a rotten Christian I was... while virtue signaling. Thank you, EG.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It is obvious he does not know you are all @Magenta. Your welcome

 

[7thMoon]

Supposedly @Magenta responded to one of my posts. Perhaps it was a typo, but it seems the post was intended and is for @Everlasting-Grace. I am not upset, just miffed.

 

[7thMoon]

Not sure where you're looking at for your information but INA, not hina is derived from ἵνα which means fiber in the Koine Greek.

To me, hINA or ἵνα means "such that", and it is usually followed by subjunctive verb.

 

[Magenta]

Supposedly @Magenta responded to one of my posts. Perhaps it was a typo, but it seems
the post was intended and is for @Everlasting-Grace. I am not upset, just miffed.

Last time I quoted you was over a week ago (here <= link). Not sure what you're talking and miffed about...

 

[7thMoon]

Last time I quoted you was over a week ago (here <= link). Not sure what you're talking and miffed about...

I was given an alert. You may have misquoted me, rather then quoting Everlasting-Grace at first.

 

[PaulThomson]

i think we are stuck with a flawed language

When I say they did nto hear. I mean they did nto understand. Their hearts would not let them understand, because to understand, they would have to admit they were in error.

Again, This happens all the time. look in here..

Hear and understand are two different words. They look different. They sound different. They mean different. Why are you making them mean the same thing when you read the bible?

 

[Magenta]

I was given an alert. You may have misquoted me, rather then quoting Everlasting-Grace at first.

Don't think so, but I was on my phone earlier which I find challenging... why would that miff you? To get an illegitimate
alert? It happens to others frequently enough, and to me as well. It sometimes mystifies me but can't say it miffs me.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Hear and understand are two different words. They look different. They sound different. They mean different. Why are you making them mean the same thing when you read the bible?

Because in order to hear you have to understand

what do you think God meant when he said hearing they may not hear and seeing they might not see

 

[7thMoon]

Don't think so, but I was on my phone earlier which I find challenging... why would that miff you? To get an illegitimate
alert? It happens to others frequently enough, and to me as well. It sometimes mystifies me but can't say it miffs me.

Interesting.

 

[PaulThomson]

Because in order to hear you have to understand

what do you think God meant when he said hearing they may not hear and seeing they might not see

The Greek word akouO has a range of meanings. To hear, as in "I can hear two people talking in the room next door, but I can't make out what they are saying." To listen, as in I am listening, but I don't understand what they are saying. Hearing does not of necessity include understanding.

See is blepO, which also has a range of meanings from merely seeing, as in "I can see a sign up ahead, but I can't make out what it says." and "Now that I am closer, I can see some mandarin characters on that sign ahead, but I can't read Mandarin, so I don't understand what they mean. Seeing does not imply understanding either.

Jesus never cast anyone out who came to him, but he spoke in parables so people would self-select, and those who wanted to understand scripture the way the teachers of the law were teaching it would leave, but those who willing to understand scripture in a new way would stay and listen attentively. Those whose hearts were hardened would hear and see, but would not listen and observe, disinterestedly wandering away and leaving him with the sincere seekers.