Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Rufus]

The Gentiles and Jews ""are not the same"" until they get saved.

So before salvation they are still JEW and Gentile.

Show me in the Bible where the GENTILES cannot hear, the GENTILES?

You do understand that Paul is talking about Jews and Gentiles in Rom 3:9-18, right? You do understand that that is Paul's UNIVERSAL indictment against all mankind, right? Are the Jews still part of the human race or do the Jews differ from humans?

 

[Rufus]

Isn't the fact he did not accept Jesus yet tell us where he was at?

I want to know where you think your grandfather was spiritually? Was he in a state of spiritual life or death when he was on his mission of truth seeking? You keep evading the question I'm asking.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You do understand that Paul is talking about Jews and Gentiles in Rom 3:9-18, right? You do understand that that is Paul's UNIVERSAL indictment against all mankind, right? Are the Jews still part of the human race or do the Jews differ from humans?

But in 11 he clarifies the JEWS cannot hear to this day.

So where did he say that about the Gentiles?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I want to know where you think your grandfather was spiritually? Was he in a state of spiritual life or death when he was on his mission of truth seeking? You keep evading the question I'm asking.

Without Jesus is dead.

 

[Rufus]

But in 11 he clarifies the JEWS cannot hear to this day.

So where did he say that about the Gentiles?

NO! Paul is talking about ALL HUMANITY! He's talking about Jews & Gentiles and how they are ALIKE! Read v. 9!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

NO! Paul is talking about ALL HUMANITY! He's talking about Jews & Gentiles and how they are ALIKE! Read v. 9!

You LIE!

He specifically says Israel in verse 7 before saying they cannot hear or see!


So SHOW ME where he said that about the GENTILES?

 

[Rufus]

Without Jesus is dead.

Then explain to me how it was that he was seeking God (Rom 3:11) and how he was doing good by seeking him (Rom 3:11)?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Then explain to me how it was that he was seeking God (Rom 3:11) and how he was doing good by seeking him (Rom 3:11)?

He was becoming a Rabbi who was always seeking God in the Torah/Tanakh

 

[Rufus]

You LIE!

No, Paul is concluding a big argument he just made about BOTH groups. Earlier he talked about those "under the law" (the written code) and then about those not under that law but under the law revealed to them intuitively. The former group are Jews, the latter are Gentiles. Now read what v.9 says.

9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

Therefore, all the "no one's) throughout this passage are all humanity! This is Paul's universal indictment against all mankind because all mankind is under sin, regardless of the type of law anyone is under !

 

[Rufus]

He was becoming a Rabbi who was always seeking God in the Torah/Tanakh

But how was this possible according to Rom 3:11 and the rest of the passage for that matter?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The Jews have a different nature than the rest of mankind? Wasn't Nicodemus a Jew and, yet, Jesus told him that he needed to be born again?

We all need to be born again

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

And who opens their eyes to see? Or do they heal themselves?

No one can heal themselves. But God will use the extreme tribulation to cause them to seek him.. then they will see..

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

No, Paul is concluding a big argument he just made about BOTH groups. Earlier he talked about those "under the law" (the written code) and then about those not under that law but under the law revealed to them intuitively. The former group are Jews, the latter are Gentiles. Now read what v.9 says.

9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

Therefore, all the "no one's) throughout this passage are all humanity! This is Paul's universal indictment against all mankind because all mankind is under sin, regardless of the type of law anyone is under !

You are on purpose twisting that verse when Paul clearly says Israel.

That means the Gentile CAN HEAR!!

 

[Niki7]

You truly are ignorant of the scriptures, aren't you? And you love to project that ignorance unto others too.

As I have said, the typical nasty and insulting response when a Calvinist really gets going

lovely

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

But how was this possible according to Rom 3:11 and the rest of the passage for that matter?

Because anyone who makes it a life purpose to study the Word of God will have the truth revealed. But most Jews reject that truth because they have been blinded by God.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The Gentiles and Jews ""are not the same"" until they get saved.

So before salvation they are still JEW and Gentile.

Show me in the Bible where the GENTILES cannot hear, the GENTILES?

Actually they are the same

they are both dead. Both need born again. Both need to have the faith of Abraham or they will never be saved.

He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already

it does not matter who they are..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

But in 11 he clarifies the JEWS cannot hear to this day.

So where did he say that about the Gentiles?

Gentiles have been blind since adam.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Actually they are the same

they are both dead. Both need born again. Both need to have the faith of Abraham or they will never be saved.

He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already

it does not matter who they are..

But Paul said specifically the JEWS are blind and deaf.

So this same stuff has a difference because Paul said it does.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Gentiles have been blind since adam.

Not actually.

22 You are to have the same law for a man of another nation living among you as for an Israelite; for I am the Lord your God.
22 There is but one law on this matter for you, immigrant or citizen alike, because I am the LORD your God.


Other nations knew about God and His Law.

Learn the Torah, it will be your friend rather just making these false assumptions that you do post after post.

 

[Niki7]

Actually they are the same

they are both dead. Both need born again. Both need to have the faith of Abraham or they will never be saved.

He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already

it does not matter who they are..

It seems quite clear that the difference is that the Jews have been put aside by God until the 'age of the Gentiles' is complete

Romans 11 is clear that when the Jewish people rejected Christ they were temporarily cut off. God in fact has hardened their heart...meaning unable to comprehend BECAUSE of their rejection of their Messiah. This is plain as day and for someone to argue against this fact is just ignoring what the text clearly states.

Just does not fit in with the yadda yadda elect yadda Calvin conundrum I guess.

When the time is right, according to God's timetable, the nation will be restored. In the meantime, the gospel has been given to Gentiles...Paul even speaks of making his countrymen jealous because of it

This is ALL in the Bible.