Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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25 as he also says in Hosea: I will call that my people which was not my people, and her beloved, that was not beloved;

26 and it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them: You are not my people, there shall they be called sons of the living God.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
The Jews are but the Gentiles have access.
Read the Bible, Paul plainly says the Jews are blind and deaf and he mentions the Potter to the Clay to explain it.
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So what parts of the Fall still applies to Gentiles? What does it mean to be dead and trespasses and sin? Does Ephesians 2:1-3 apply to Gentiles?
 
Cameron143 said:
So what parts of the Fall still applies to Gentiles? What does it mean to be dead and trespasses and sin? Does Ephesians 2:1-3 apply to Gentiles?
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Everyone without God is spiritually dead. But God made it so the Jews are blind and deaf and the Gentiles have access if they accept.
 
Cameron143 said:
Then why are preachers sent if they can figure it out themselves? What power then does the gospel possess if all hear? Why doesn't everyone upon hearing the gospel get saved?
We definitely and fundamentally disagree on what it means to be dead in trespasses and sin. Thanks for the discussion.
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Pardon my interruption, but since you would believe in 'election' and God choosing, why would it matter? God will get them no matter what if they are part of the 'election'

I don't know how much you adhere to Calvinism, as you say you believe what you do through personal study, but isn't election a part of what you believe?

Everyone does not accept Christ and the Bible states that everyone does not accept Christ but nowhere are we told that God might pass you over if you are not an 'elect.'

And yes, count me in on the fundamental disagreement

I very much do believe that John 3:16 means what is says.
 
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BillyBob said:
Free will only applies to the desires of your heart. However, when you are given a new heart your desires change!:)
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smh. kindly point us to the scripture that says that

We still sin which is why John said we he did. I am not meaning deliberate and ongoing sin, but such as we do during the course of a day without planning to do so.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
I am using the Bible and you are using your mythical doctrine. Why would I believe you over the Bible?
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So answer this question? Why can't God sin? Yeah...I know you said it because he's holy and good, right? But you don't understand what you said! God is holy and good how, if not in his nature? So...if God can't do anything contrary to his good and holy nature, then what makes you believe that he created humans to be able to do something he can't do!? From where did we mere finite mortals get this mighty power to do something our Creator can't?
 
Rufus said:
So answer this question? Why can't God sin? Yeah...I know you said it because he's holy and good, right? But you don't understand what you said! God is holy and good how, if not in his nature? So...if God can't do anything contrary to his good and holy nature, then what makes you believe that he created humans to be able to do something he can't do!? From where did we mere finite mortals get this mighty power to do something our Creator can't?
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First off, Genesis states we are made in the image of God. The word holy actually means to be separate....interesting that our sin(s) have separated us from God. But note that even though Adam and Eve disobeyed God, He STILL sought them out! They were not elect...or as it coming to appear, what Calvinists actually believe is more along the lines of SELECTION as opposed to election.

The problem is not the matter of choice. The problem is you and others here seeking to present the gospel through misapprehension of the word. Do you not know that a believer is seen by the Father as THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST?

You see, leaving out all that our salvation is, you get around scripture that states that all may come to salvation through faith and we are not yet what we shall be but are on the way to becoming as Christ as we shall be like Him when we finally see Him. Then we shall know even as we are known now.

We have the hope and assurance of salvation now. NOW

Why wouldn't God give choice when He has given that throughout scripture, INCLUDING the garden.
 
BillyBob said:
Free will only applies to the desires of your heart. However, when you are given a new heart your desires change!:)
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3 Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments; from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
They shut them "while hearing" the Gospel. So humans control what they want to hear. God made us in his image to hear Him. We choose if we want to hear or not.
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No, he did not make us to hear him. Give me chapter and verse on that. He made Adam with the capacity to choose between good and evil. Adam chose the latter, so now the entire human race is in interminable stuck mode. We have moved from having the capacity to choose between the two, to having no other choice but to choose what the human heart constantly desires -- freedom from God and freedom to do do whatever we want! The human will, sir, is in bondage to its sin nature and evil desires. This why scripture portrays the human race as being [spiritually] dead. Can the dead escape from their graves under their own power? Then neither can the unregenerate escape from their own nature or the dark graves of their evil hearts. I mean really....what part of Jer 13:23 and Rom 8:8 and Rom 3:10-17 don't get?
 
BillyBob said:
No scripture, it just seems silly to think that you would will to do anything that you did not desire to do!:eek::eek:
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The Hebrew word [verb] נדב naw-dab’ is a primitive root that means – to present spontaneously…primarily translated as an adverb “willingly” which indicates free motivation or voluntary decision. It is used 17 times in 15 verses throughout OT Scripture.
 
Rufus said:
Yes, and being in that image means we can't do something that God cannot do. The Fall of mankind damaged that image. Badly! We can only choose according to our nature. So, yes, the unregenerate freely choose to make the only choice they can. We have no power to change our nature.
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Adam and Eve were created by God and He said all that He made was GOOD. There is no introduction of select Christians or elect anyone. The Bible also states that only the fool has said in his heart there is no God. Calvinists offer the word depravity as an inability to reach out to God but the Bible does not state that.

Why does Calvinism state that you can only come to salvation if God regenerates you first? That makes EVERYONE who does not accept Christ blameless . If you are unable to do what enables salvation, then how can you (anyone and not you personally) then how can it be said that a person is unwilling to do what they are unable to do?
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
The Hebrew word [verb] נדב naw-dab’ is a primitive root that means – to present spontaneously…primarily translated as an adverb “willingly” which indicates free motivation or voluntary decision. It is used 17 times in 15 verses throughout OT Scripture.
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I don't know Hebrew! Do you continue to argue with me simply because you like my smile!
 
BillyBob said:
I don't know Hebrew! Do you continue to argue with me simply because you like my smile!
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Neither do I but I know you can find any info about Hebrew, various Bible translations, original texts....you name it...online

Frankly I would expect people to study (the Bible commends those who do) before telling others what something means in the Bible

Right now, I am conducting a study on all that salvation entails and the starting point is understanding the words used (Greek) by Paul. English does not convey the depth or understanding of the total salvation from sin and satan granted to believers
 
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