Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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brightfame52 said:
Im familiar with all that. Yet Christ died only for the elect or His Sheep.
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No and this truly is good news I have long wanted to reveal and is the most just punishment for unbelieving, liars and decievers and the exalted upon the earth:

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” John 12:32

their home for eternity after dying here on earth:

And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. Rev 4:8
 
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Rufus said:
Why aren't you giving me the "original" Gr. word and its definition? What are you hiding? Also while you're at it, in what manuscript is this "original" word found?
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Here's their disclaimer:
Strong's Numbers come from a reference book known as "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible". A concordance is an alphabetical list of words and definitions just like a dictionary except they only apply to one book (in our case the King James Bible).
Textus-Receptus
 
Rufus said:
Jn 3:17 is about the elect Gentiles, as I demonstrated from the larger context a couple of weeks or so ago. There's two groups of people being talked about in the larger context. The "whosoevers" and the ones who already stand condemned. Jesus did not come save the latter, only the former.
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You only give the kjv reference but as we know it's not the original so it's not the TRUTH.

Get over it, Strong's Concordance proved it is not original Greek

Here's their disclaimer:
Strong's Numbers come from a reference book known as "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible". A concordance is an alphabetical list of words and definitions just like a dictionary except they only apply to one book (in our case the King James Bible).
Textus-Receptus
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
You only give the kjv reference but as we know it's not the original so it's not the TRUTH.

Get over it, Strong's Concordance proved it is not original Greek

Here's their disclaimer:
Strong's Numbers come from a reference book known as "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible". A concordance is an alphabetical list of words and definitions just like a dictionary except they only apply to one book (in our case the King James Bible).
Textus-Receptus
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You still haven't answered my questions. What are you hiding? Give me the Gr. word you''re your using, its definition and the name of manuscript(s) in which it is found.
 
MarcoftheTruth said:
No and this truly is good news I have long wanted to reveal and is the most just punishment for unbelieving, liars and decievers and the exalted upon the earth:

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” John 12:32

their home for eternity after dying here on earth:

And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. Rev 4:8
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The Lamb Exalted

11And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
 
Rufus said:
You still haven't answered my questions. What are you hiding? Give me the Gr. word you''re your using, its definition and the name of manuscript(s) in which it is found.
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I am hiding nothing but it's also not my job to help the Proud and Haughty. You boast and come here and pretend you know something when you know NOTHING. Why would I HELP YOU?
 
MarcoftheTruth said:
The Lamb Exalted

11And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
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I began to weep bitterly, because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or look inside it. Then one of the elders said to me,
“Do not weep! Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed to open the scroll and its seven seals."
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
I am hiding nothing but it's also not my job to help the Proud and Haughty. You boast and come here and pretend you know something when you know NOTHING. Why would I HELP YOU?
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You're really full of yourself, aren't you? I thought we were all here to share insights -- but you not so much, heh? You fancy yourself,do you, as the Guardian of Truth? But aren't we called to proclaim the truth?

And besides, when you don't answer honest questions...when you refuse to be transparent, you are not helping yourself. While you may think you're the smartest person in the room, there are others here who will also wonder about your lack of transparency. You keep secret your "original" Gr. term that you interpret to mean perhaps, maybe, possibly, etc. You keep secret the name(s) of your favorite manuscript(s) from which you have taken this Gr. word. And you totally ignore all the contradictions with other highly relevant scriptures your interpretation presents. You're already on very shaky ground.
 
Rufus said:
You're really full of yourself, aren't you? I thought we were all here to share insights -- but you not so much, heh? You fancy yourself,do you, as the Guardian of Truth? But aren't we called to proclaim the truth?

And besides, when you don't answer honest questions...when you refuse to be transparent, you are not helping yourself. While you may think you're the smartest person in the room, there are others here who will also wonder about your lack of transparency. You keep secret your "original" Gr. term that you interpret to mean perhaps, maybe, possibly, etc. You keep secret the name(s) of your favorite manuscript(s) from which you have taken this Gr. word. And you totally ignore all the contradictions with other highly relevant scriptures your interpretation presents. You're already on very shaky ground.
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I will give the SECOND of the THREE clues (YOU know the first being Strong's is for KJV only) about the issue at hand. The biggest error of the Strong's Concordance, besides it only being relevant for the Textus Receptus Bibles, is the modern day Greek doesn't use the same types of prepositions like the Koine Greek used.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
I will give the SECOND of the THREE clues (YOU know the first being Strong's is for KJV only) about the issue at hand. The biggest error of the Strong's Concordance, besides it only being relevant for the Textus Receptus Bibles, is the modern day Greek doesn't use the same types of prepositions like the Koine Greek used.
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It certainly appears from where I sit that your confidence level of your favored manuscripts (Vaticanus and/or Sinaiticus?) is not very high. We certainly can understand why, given all the ways your interpretation of Jn 3:17 contradicts other relevant scriptures. If I were a fraud, I, too, would want to keep my sources under wraps.

P.S. the Textus Receptus is based on the Koine Greek.
 
Rufus said:
It certainly appears from where I sit that your confidence level of your favored manuscripts (Vaticanus and/or Sinaiticus?) is not very high. We certainly can understand why, given all the ways your interpretation of Jn 3:17 contradicts other relevant scriptures. If I were a fraud, I, too, would want to keep my sources under wraps.

P.S. the Textus Receptus is based on the Koine Greek.
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Keep guessing. This is fun reading what you think. It reminds me of the lack of Biblical knowledge that you possess (y)

P.S. Erasmus wrote the Textus Receptus/KJV is based off the Latin Vulgate. Nice try :cool:
 
MarcoftheTruth said:
No and this truly is good news I have long wanted to reveal and is the most just punishment for unbelieving, liars and decievers and the exalted upon the earth:

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” John 12:32

their home for eternity after dying here on earth:

And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. Rev 4:8
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Hi there, Jn 12 32 is the Sheep, Gods elect being converted unto believers
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
Keep guessing. This is fun reading what you think. It reminds me of the lack of Biblical knowledge that you possess (y)

P.S. Erasmus wrote the Textus Receptus/KJV is based off the Latin Vulgate. Nice try :cool:
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And then there is a fourth way your interpretation of Jn 3:17 contradicts scripture: Your interpretation implies that God's will is contingent on his image-bearers' free moral agency. God made salvation possible IF....we act first. Yet, scripture teaches that God works all thing after the counsel of his own will...no one else's.

So, feel free to use those corrupted manuscripts from the Alexandrian texts. I'm sure the evil one approves.
 
Rufus said:
And then there is a fourth way your interpretation of Jn 3:17 contradicts scripture: Your interpretation implies that God's will is contingent on his image-bearers' free moral agency. God made salvation possible IF....we act first. Yet, scripture teaches that God works all thing after the counsel of his own will...no one else's.

So, feel free to use those corrupted manuscripts from the Alexandrian texts. I'm sure the evil one approves.
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Look at you just letting your mind wander because you don't know the Truth.
 
PaulThomson said:
If that is true, then why did the father of the epileptic boy say ,"I believe. Help my unbelief" ?
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You are a "cherry picker" and completely on purpose skipped passed the important verses.

22 ......but if in any way thou canst, have pity on us and help us.

23 But Jesus said to him: What is this “If thou canst”? All things are possible to him that believes.

The guy never believed to begin with. Look at the real reason Jesus healed the boy.

25 But Jesus, seeing that the multitude was running together, rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to him:


Jesus healed the boy because it was a public display and many people were watching.
 
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