Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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brightfame52

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Mem said:
God so loved the world that He didn't die for the sins of the world. :oops:
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He so loved the world that He Loved and died for His Own in the world Jn 13:1

Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
What does that mean? Did He actually pay for the sins of every person who will ever live?
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Scripture says He died for the sins of the whole world. How do you interpret that?

Nowhere are we told this saves each and every person/all, which is generally understood to be universalism,
but only those who by grace through faith believe in His shed righteous blood for the forgiveness of their sins,
being reconciled to God, escaping the second death, and attaining to life ever after.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mem said:
You've asked me to frame "just" according to your notion of it. How can I be sure that either of us can adequately establish God's perimeters in his judgement of justice?

If Jesus died for the sins of the world, but the whole world isn't saved from their sin, then it is not his atonement that is missing anything, we are missing something. But I don't know what keeps people from considering what this might be.
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I think we can come to a common understanding of what it means to be just. And we can probably agree that even if we cannot understand fully the justice of God, it would at least be equal to that of man.
As to the atonement, it is not between God and men. It is between God the Father and God the Son. Jesus offered His blood to the Father as a propitiation for sin. The Father accepted the payment and His wrath was satisfied. If the payment was all-inclusive, there is no wrath left to satisfy. What need is there of hell for humans?
 
Mem

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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brightfame52 said:
He so loved the world that He Loved and died for His Own in the world Jn 13:1

Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
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As you've determined to love JC unto the end, John Calvin that is, and not Jesus Christ.
 
Mem

Mem

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Cameron143 said:
I think we can come to a common understanding of what it means to be just. And we can probably agree that even if we cannot understand fully the justice of God, it would at least be equal to that of man.
As to the atonement, it is not between God and men. It is between God the Father and God the Son. Jesus offered His blood to the Father as a propitiation for sin. The Father accepted the payment and His wrath was satisfied. If the payment was all-inclusive, there is no wrath left to satisfy. What need is there of hell for humans?
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Somewhere, in scripture, there is a condition in which "your sin remains."
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Magenta said:
Scripture says He died for the sins of the whole world. How do you interpret that?

Nowhere are we told this saves each and every person/all, which is generally understood to be universalism,
but only those who by grace through faith believe in His shed righteous blood for the forgiveness of their sins,
being reconciled to God, escaping the second death, and attaining to life ever after.
Click to expand...
So why are people sent to hell in the first place?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mem said:
Somewhere, in scripture, there is a condition in which "your sin remains."
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It's worth investigating. But doesn't it follow that if sin remains then it wasn't atoned for?
 
Mem

Mem

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Cameron143 said:
It's worth investigating. But doesn't it follow that if sin remains then it wasn't atoned for?
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The atonement wasn't accepted, whether by the debtee or by debtor (though I must have those terms misapplied, u know what I mean).
 
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