Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[selahsays]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

- John 3:16-21 (KJV)

The only condition for salvation is that you “believeth in Him.” The Cross draws believers to God. For those who believe, Jesus paid the full price.

 

[Magenta]

John 12:31-32

 

[selahsays]

What does your question have to do with what you wrote in 2362?

You said something about me not mentioning the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rufus]

You said something about me not mentioning the Holy Spirit.

And neither did you say anything about the Father's or Son's role in salvation in your 2362. So why do you know bring the Trinity into this discussion?

 

[Rufus]

Thank you, BillyBob, I appreciate your post to me, especially after just having read another from someone else, who talks in circles and continually falsely accuses me of having done things I have not and said things I have not. It is no wonder such people pervert the simple truth of the gospel, when they show with almost every post that they fail to comprehend plainly spoken English. I am in need of more grace toward such people, for I have very little patience with liars.

Does this mean you're not going to tackle the questions I asked in 2385, most especially the one in the last paragraph?

Truly yours,
Mr. Circle of Life

 

[Rufus]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

- John 3:16-21 (KJV)

The only condition for salvation is that you “believeth in Him.” The Cross draws believers to God. For those who believe, Jesus paid the full price.

Hmm...thank you for that info. Do you think "world" in Jn 3:16 means everyone in the distributive sense?

 

[selahsays]

And neither did you say anything about the Father's or Son's role in salvation in your 2362. So why do you know bring the Trinity into this discussion?

Do you not believe in the Trinity?

 

[selahsays]

Hmm...thank you for that info. Do you think "world" in Jn 3:16 means everyone in the distributive sense?

Yes…. but remember, not everyone will believe.

 

[Rufus]

Do you not believe in the Trinity?

The better question is: Don't you recall what you wrote in 2362?

 

[selahsays]

The better question is: Don't you recall what you wrote in 2362?

This is what I wrote:
My understanding goes like this: The leopard cannot change its spots, and the Ethiopian cannot change the color of his skin. God is teaching us that people who are conditioned to commit evil will not be able to do good. They cannot possibly change without the truth of God’s Word.

So?

 

[Rufus]

This is what I wrote:
My understanding goes like this: The leopard cannot change its spots, and the Ethiopian cannot change the color of his skin. God is teaching us that people who are conditioned to commit evil will not be able to do good. They cannot possibly change without the truth of God’s Word.

So?

What does your Trinity rabbit trail have to do with your post? Did you say in your post that people cannot possibly change "without the truth of God's Word" and the work of God in their lives?

 

[Desertsrose]

Questions, just for consideration:

Is God just?
Is it just to punish someone for a debt that has been paid?

Hi Cameron,

Yes, when they reject the just payment made on their behalf, it is just for God to punish the sinner.

Romans 5:17-18
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

 

[Cameron143]

Hi Cameron,

Yes, when they reject the just payment made on their behalf, it is just for God to punish the sinner.

Romans 5:17-18
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

So you believe it's just of God to accept the payment for an individual's sins, and still require another payment from them?
It's not a matter of what an individual does. I'm asking about God.
If you borrowed 5 dollars from me and agreed to pay it back in a week or I would get your car. And the end of the week, you don't have the money. Fortunately for you, a friend of yours offers me 5 dollars on your behalf to settle your debt. I agree and take the 5 dollars. Am I then just if I take your car as well?

 

[Magenta]

Hi Cameron,

Yes, when they reject the just payment made on their behalf, it is just for God to punish the sinner.

Romans 5:17-18
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Welcome back!
So lovely to see you again, Desertsrose .. I do hope you and yours are well...

 

[selahsays]

What does your Trinity rabbit trail have to do with your post? Did you say in your post that people cannot possibly change "without the truth of God's Word" and the work of God in their lives?

What’s your point? I’m beginning to think you don’t have one.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 5:17-18
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive
the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Some people say things that amount to claiming if we have to "receive it" we have
done a work which therefore nullifies grace being a gift, or some such nonsense.

 

[Desertsrose]

Some people say things that amount to claiming if we have to "receive it" we have
done a work which therefore nullifies grace being a gift, or some such nonsense.

Hi Magenta,

You're right, that's complete nonsense! The Lord sets the condition. It's by His Grace through Faith. Faith is a response of humbling ourselves before Him. By doing so we show we can’t save ourselves. \o/ Praise God! 😊💕

 

[Desertsrose]

Welcome back!
So lovely to see you again, Desertsrose .. I do hope you and yours are well...

It's so good to see you too! 😊💕 We are well, I hope you and yours are too!

 

[Desertsrose]

So you believe it's just of God to accept the payment for an individual's sins, and still require another payment from them?
It's not a matter of what an individual does. I'm asking about God.
If you borrowed 5 dollars from me and agreed to pay it back in a week or I would get your car. And the end of the week, you don't have the money. Fortunately for you, a friend of yours offers me 5 dollars on your behalf to settle your debt. I agree and take the 5 dollars. Am I then just if I take your car as well?

God accepts the payment of His son's death on the cross, that's all that's needed. Receiving it is our faith response of that free gift. For it is by Grace through faith. Faith is not a work. It's simply agreeing with God we can’t save ourselves and we need Him.

Trusting in Christ is not a work unto salvation. By humbling ourselves after hearing the gospel and believing in Him, we see our sinful state and go to Him for cleansing.

Just think of your child falling into a muddy puddle and she comes to you for cleansing. If she comes to you to be cleansed, did she do a work to cleanse herself? I think not.

 

[Cameron143]

God accepts the payment of His son's death on the cross, that's all that's needed. Receiving it is our faith response of that free gift. For it is by Grace through faith. Faith is not a work. It's simply agreeing with God we can’t save ourselves and we need Him.

Trusting in Christ is not a work unto salvation. By humbling ourselves after hearing the gospel and believing in Him, we see our sinful state and go to Him for cleansing.

Just think of your child falling into a muddy puddle and she comes to you for cleansing. If she comes to you to be cleansed, did she do a work to cleanse herself? I think not.

Again, not I'm not talking about what an individual may or may not do. I never suggested that trusting or faith is a work. I'm asking about God. A simple yes or no will do. Is it just for God to accept a payment for an individual's sins and still require another payment for their sins?