Who gives you are right to say whether a child is part of the church or not. You don't know the hearts of people only God knows that.
How do you know who is genuinely converted? Do you sit there ticking boxes?
Women Pastors
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Who gives you are right to say whether a child is part of the church or not. You don't know the hearts of people only God knows that.
How do you know who is genuinely converted? Do you sit there ticking boxes?
God decided that this world was made for man. Women were made as helpers to man.
It's God's order that man be in authority and it's satan that desires the opposite of God's order so women being in authority over men is in opposition to God's will and is in agreement with satan's desire which is to always be in opposition to God's will.
God's Word is very clear that church leaders are men. One has to ignore then plain reading of scripture to say otherwise.
Paul clearly shows that He is teaching from what God said in Genesis so this has zero to do with cultural norms in Paul's day which is an excuse satan pitched to get people to believe it's OK for women to be pastors.
Ha ha, your "homework" is faulty and not in line with the clear reading of scripture.
You position that it's OK for women to be in authority over men is flowing with common zeitgeist.
Group think, hive mentality is not scriptural
This is correct.
Paul was being led by the Holy Spirit to look at God's order of creation.
Not true. The scripture very clearly teaches that church leaders are the husband of one wife, meaning they are men and they are married.
Jesus said forbid not to let the children come unto Him for such is the Kingdom of God.
I‘ll stick with scripture concerning the Lord and his Church.
Jesus will be surprised to hear this. “...Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.” Matt 19:14 ESV
Since it's the BDF I, from time to time, like to place a bomb and run. I should have 43 notifications instead of the usual 3. Lets see if we can shake this up a little.
5 WAYS THE BIBLE SUPPORTS WOMEN PREACHING
Bible exegesis 101 requires us to look at what comes right before and right after this passage to help us understand what it means. Isolating 1 Timothy 2:12 is taking the Bible out of context.
1. Paul’s word’s in 1 Timothy 2 were most likely about specific women in Timothy’s church being unruly, not all women in the church throughout all times.
Paul (the one who wrote that passage) says in 1 Timothy that he doesn’t permit a woman, who is learning, to ‘usurp authority’ over a man. Which is quite different than saying she can’t teach or have any authority over men. Usurping authority is to steal away or to take what isn’t hers rightfully. Sort of like overthrowing a legitimate government so you can have more power. It’s not right for men or women to do that. Most scholars believe it is applying to the specific situation in the church where specific women who were uneducated, were also disruptive (and usurping the actual leaders).
However, if we choose to believe that the Bible always provides universal statements, then we need to be consistent and apply the same logic to the rest of the passage.
1 Timothy also says a woman/women shouldn’t braid our hair or wear gold( no wedding rings) pearls, or anything expensive (most likely to church). That we are to sit in silence in the church. So no “Sunday best” clothes allowed, especially if it comes with jewelry. Also no female greeters, worship leaders, or choir members. Plus no women reading scripture or giving announcements.
Again, we either need to be consistent and remove women from all of the roles mentioned in church (and make sure they dress really plainly while we’re at it), or we need to acknowledge that those instructions were most likely geared toward a few specific women who were being intentionally disruptive.
2. The Bible’s instructions around preaching and using other gifts to lead in the Church are explicitly given to men AND women.
In 1 Corinthians, Paul tells the “brothers and sisters” to instruct, reveal, and prophesy to one another. When Paul and other New Testament writers give instructions to Christians about preaching and leading in the Church, they use phrases like “all of you” or “every one of you”. Which absolutely includes women!
1 Cor. I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied
1 Cor. - 26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.
1Cor 14:31For you can all prophesy one by one that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
Peter- Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms. 11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
Eph- 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
3. The Bible’s original text offers a lot of clarity that translations do not.
Growing up none of us used an original manuscript to learn the texts and very, very few people are fluent in the original languages, the cultural context all of these letters were written in, and the way the church has shaped our understanding for centuries. So we rely on those few experts to translate the passages and teach us as much as possible.
All that to say that there are thousands of Biblical scholars who are familiar with those sources who teach that the ban on women in the church is a human mandate, not a divine one.
4. God gives us several examples of female leadership (over men and women) in the Old and New Testaments.
- Deborah was an Old Testament judge, meaning she led Israel before they had a king (Judges 4-5). She was known for wisdom, spiritual insight, and success in battle. And as an important aside, there is ZERO indication in scripture that her role was assumed because there were no qualified men willing or able to lead. God called her uniquely, just as he called the other judges.
- Anna was a prophet who dedicated her life to praying, praising, and teaching in the temple. She was also one of the first people to meet Jesus as an infant, and recognized and proclaimed his divinity (Luke 2:25-38).
- Huldah was an Old Testament prophet who was a trusted source for interpreting and understanding scripture. She was even sought out by the king of Israel to teach his men about the meaning of prophecies from God (2 Kings 22:11-20).
- Priscilla was part of the church in Ephesus, and co-lead with her husband in teaching and evangelizing (Acts 18:24-26).
- Phoebe was a deacon in a formal position of leadership at a church near Rome. Paul praised her for leadership and impact, and asked the rest of the church to follow her instructions and aid her in her ministry work (Romans 16:1-2).
- Mary Magdalene was one of Jesus’ followers throughout his ministry, and was the first person to see him after his resurrection. She is also the one who received the first call to preach the good news of his resurrection.
5. The first preachers of the gospel were women.
When Jesus was coming to earth, the first people to know and share about his arrival were his mother, Mary, and her cousin, Elizabeth. Women. When Jesus was in the early stages of his earthly ministry, one of the first proclaimers (which is the literal translation of the word preacher) was the woman at the well in Samaria. And when Jesus resurrected after his death, the ones who were instructed to share about his resurrection were women. Jesus directly told Mary Magdalene to go proclaim (preach) the good news to his male disciples. Did you catch that? It came straight from Jesus!
Make no mistake – it’s not just because the women happened to be there when the men weren’t. Jesus appeared out of thin air to his followers multiple times before he ascended into heaven. He absolutely could have gone straight to the men and given them the instruction to preach. But he didn’t – he chose women.
I thought that was a good article to get a real discussion going. Annnd y'all have fun, I'm out.
If we wish to speak about being deceived as a reason to keep women from preaching, The Bible mentions Mary M 12 times + 50 references towards her which is twice as much as 2/3 of the 12 Apostles were mentioned. Jesus even commanded Mary M to be the "one" to tell the others about His Resurrection. To which all of the men (being DECEIVED) did not believe her.
Several times in the New Testament God chose women to speak on His behalf, but men, in that time and culture would not believe a Woman's word. Kind of like today.
Several times in the New Testament God chose women to speak on His behalf, but men, in that time and culture would not believe a Woman's word. Kind of like today.
You're displaying chauvinism and arrogance, not mature Christian character. The Hebrew term rendered "helper" is ezer kenegdo. It is used of God Himself. If you were consistent, you would believe that God is a mere "helper" of men.
... or be ignorant of the key terms in the original languages, which you clearly are.
In the beginning before the curse of sin
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, ( male and female ) Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”
Genesis 1:27-28
then the curse of sin
“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
Genesis 3:16 KJV
remission of sin
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:38-39 KJV
“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
Acts 8:12
The result
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
The prophets were the ones called to speak to a congregation
“Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.”
1 Corinthians 14:29 KJV
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
Acts 2:17-18
it would be a shame to reject a prophet annointed and chosen by God based on trying to observe eves curse for sin when the wife was made subject to her husband after that’s been remitted and redeemed
Yeah he’s speaking directly from the law of Moses that came for transgression not from the perspective of remission
No it doesn't where in what you gave does it say anything about the position of which women are placed in his kingdom? every verse was about the husband and it was about what a husband ought to be not where he stands above women
It was a failed attempt on your part you cannot just pick certain scriptures that you think fit your narriative especially when you poorly do so as you have you cannot force a puzzle piece to fit the entire picture
You speak of scripture but fail to understand his character you showed scripture but only to try to make it fit your beliefs not God's yours. There is a user on here named Angela she is a pastor and was the onewho heelped me grow in my faith the most
If what you say is true then she sinned in helping me grow in Christ but yet she did I have respect for her as apastor and she was clearly called for it you understand at least that the scriptures cannot be understood on bias right? I hope at least you do but I am not here to convince you I know your type rather I will let God show you you cannot understand the scriptures without first understand him his character his nature his taits that is why we seek the kingdom first he is the kingdom and until you are dead serious in seeking and knowing him with a torturous desperation of longing you will never understand his word
You need to stop reading the scriptures for now and ask yourself do you trult know him? many say yes but all we see is scripture used to fit a narrative all throughout the body of Christ many have forgootten to seek knowimh the truth the living word of Hod Jesus as a person himself not a distant person you read about without thia deep cpnnecyion wiyj jim you are subject to your beliefs what you understand what you think yet God opposes rthis thinking.
He uses the willing not what gender you are we are his children first that is what his love is if you understood how badly he wants his kingdom here on earth you would understand he treasures the willing heart the one who wants to serve and you can post all the scripture you want but you forgot to know him first you think you can post scripture and that males it truth but if you really knew him you would have no need to use scripture to prove yourself it would flow naturally just by speaking
But I am grateful for you yes right now you are unaware hut those who read all this it will resonate with them they will see the prejudice and realize that they aree who he says they are not what gender not how strong or weeak they are and people here are very keen on scripture being used only for yourself this isn't about God for you it is to prove what you yourself believe you won't listen to the wisdom of others as seveeral have tried with you already but you deny it you don't seek the truth you seek your truth your trying to validate yourself not God
Yet God schooses who he usees who he has called not you or your understanding so by all means keep going it will be all the more effective when he humbles you
"Did you know that God's Word teaches that only men can be anointed / called to be pastors, deacons, church leaders?
Woman can assist and help in ministry, but the are not called by the Lord to be church leaders."
So what qualifies as teaching/preaching? A few women did just that after Christ rose....oops
No offense but many have written books about this and you think you nailed it in a post? Why did you only pick this? Your looking back over two thousand years and a different culture
So lets pfft look into say 1st Tim 2 12+ its wise to dive into, maybe there may have been some very specific local problems Paul was addressing. Lets keep going. It is suggested that since Christianity had brought new freedom to women who had lived within an extremely male-dominated society, there may have been some localized abuse of this freedom by women who began to assert themselves more forcefully. Such conduct would have brought shame to the new churches and would have created a stumbling block to the people of that culture. Ooh that word again.
Its like in Hebrews remember sin and no more sacrifice blah blah blah. If we dive in again, we find Paul was talking to Jewish believers in Christ that would sin and then try to offer a sacrifice for that sin. He told them there is no more sacrifice for that sin. Christ can not die again. What they were doing put Christ to open shame. What Chapter 6 and Chapter 10 those two verses in Hebrews cause so many young in the faith to stumble with fear.
Now I said all this and you don't know what I believe when it comes to women teaching or preaching. Men and long hair hello Samson. Theres this preacher I don't disbelieve, I just take his word for it. His hair is different and he said the lord told him to grow it that way.....well it seems the "Church" makes the rules on something's and God wanted to turn the tables over so to speak. And it has done just that. I don't follow nor listen to that man but.. his heart is huge and he witnesses none stop for Christ. I never feel he preaching it and doing it because the BIBLE tells me so. No.. you see the love and its him. Why so many I can't number have been saved in his ministry. Have to look at "what do they do for Christ".
Point is God will never go against His word yet He does what He wants. If some woman says "here I am lord" He will pick them. We know most say yes with our mouth but no in our heart. Now take this woman .. oh I best not.. I know my family. But she said what she was called to, worldwide ministry, God chose a man first that said no. She was always "here I am lord use me".
Woman can assist and help in ministry, but the are not called by the Lord to be church leaders."
So what qualifies as teaching/preaching? A few women did just that after Christ rose....oops
No offense but many have written books about this and you think you nailed it in a post? Why did you only pick this? Your looking back over two thousand years and a different cultureSo lets pfft look into say 1st Tim 2 12+ its wise to dive into, maybe there may have been some very specific local problems Paul was addressing. Lets keep going. It is suggested that since Christianity had brought new freedom to women who had lived within an extremely male-dominated society, there may have been some localized abuse of this freedom by women who began to assert themselves more forcefully. Such conduct would have brought shame to the new churches and would have created a stumbling block to the people of that culture. Ooh that word again.
Its like in Hebrews remember sin and no more sacrifice blah blah blah. If we dive in again, we find Paul was talking to Jewish believers in Christ that would sin and then try to offer a sacrifice for that sin. He told them there is no more sacrifice for that sin. Christ can not die again. What they were doing put Christ to open shame. What Chapter 6 and Chapter 10 those two verses in Hebrews cause so many young in the faith to stumble with fear.
Now I said all this and you don't know what I believe when it comes to women teaching or preaching. Men and long hair hello Samson. Theres this preacher I don't disbelieve, I just take his word for it. His hair is different and he said the lord told him to grow it that way.....well it seems the "Church" makes the rules on something's and God wanted to turn the tables over so to speak. And it has done just that. I don't follow nor listen to that man but.. his heart is huge and he witnesses none stop for Christ. I never feel he preaching it and doing it because the BIBLE tells me so. No.. you see the love and its him. Why so many I can't number have been saved in his ministry. Have to look at "what do they do for Christ".
Point is God will never go against His word yet He does what He wants. If some woman says "here I am lord" He will pick them. We know most say yes with our mouth but no in our heart. Now take this woman .. oh I best not.. I know my family. But she said what she was called to, worldwide ministry, God chose a man first that said no. She was always "here I am lord use me".
Blain, you yourself will need to go back to Scripture to see that that is false. God very definitely has specific roles for men and women in the home and in the local church. You cannot deny that without calling God a liar. This applies to this comment also:
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor 11:3). Here "head" means "authority over". And that is why wives are to (a) be in subjection to their own husbands and (b) wear a head covering during worship, since that is a symbol of the headship of the man. "Power" on her head means the symbol of authority on her head.
And God gives you a reason for this: Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. (v 9)
And then God says this: Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. (1 Cor 14:34) Who is the one who gives or withholds permission? It is God Himself.
Therefore we also have this: Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression (1 Tim 2:11-14)
Christians can either accept all this as the Word of God, or stop saying that they believe the whole Word of God from Genesis to Revelation. We cannot pick and choose what to believe and what to reject.
Why would I? Why is that foolish? The truth of God's word stands forever. If a truth is applicable to the church at Ephesus, it is equally applicable to us today.
Yet the birth of Jesus was given to mary thee greatest honor and she didn;t see herself as anything special but she was willing when John was being convieved it was man who denied what the angel fortold when Jesus was born it was a wmone who was willing and said let it be as you have said
And we do not live under the old covanaent yes in the old it is true most whp he used was man but he also used womeen wheeen man wou;dn't and being the head means it is on man the husband to be strong for the wife qnd family yet we are to treat them in as treasures from God not lesser than us but a tender protective nature
Look at this world is this what you see? howmany pastor who mainly are men are seen as false teacher mega churches greedy any man claiming to be Jesus qe as men failed most pastors are men and look at the state of the body yet if one is willing to recieve women pastors are known for this mostly it is the meen
But nonee of this even matters again we aree his children first those who know his voicee know him when did Jesus say women are beelow men? I afmot everything else is easilu up for interpretation but when Jesus himself speaks I take him dead serious he never said any of this I don;t take mt understanding from what I read i see whgat Jesus said what he spoke of and base everything off that
What did Jesus say? what dud he speak of? did he say any of this? if not he clearly was not concerned about gender he was concerned with the kingdom if he never sauid any of this and he is God then then we are reading his word but not listening don't forget we live in a realm where things are rarely if ever as they seem there is layers to his word if you only read thee first layer then it is easy to take that with what you belief not what he is actually saying
Yes I respect you in scripture and you are very keen in bible prophecy but since when was his kingdom based on gender where did Jesus say this? I can read the scriptures I can study for years but if I do not first compare it to what Jesus himself said I am in danger of my own thinking my own beliefs my ownb understanding
The heart and nature of God comes first it is so easy to pick and choose cherry pick make the scriptures fit out narrative hut not if you have the real thing he speaks to you and says lean not on on your own understanding he pours his nature his wonderful laughter that tickles your soul that smile on his face that speaks so many words unspoken we see how the scriptures are used but can you say you know his laughter? can you say how playfully sneaky he can be can you speak of the tenderness and unrelentless patience of one who is lost so deeply in the piy pf despar? yet he holds you he has no ill will and trust me I have more than once cursed jim out
But one thing he always says is I am his no matter how far I fall and trust me I have fallen far yet his warmth his tickling of the heart the affection and absolute love for sxomeone as sinful and disgusting as me anyone can read and understand the scriptures as they do it isnt hard to misuse or ubderstand it as we see fit
Y don't claim to fully know or understand the word of God but I am for him first I treasure the nature and heart of God first even if I am attacked or given scripture that may seem to prove me wrong but my heart wants nothing more than to synchronize with his I want to know what hesays not what others say or what I say I had to let go of all I thought I knew and understood
again you will never understand his word unless you first understand him he is the kingdom who cares what we think his word says who say cares what we think we understand I understand nothing I gave and surrendered it all to him
And againI highly respect you but all this division all this what we say or think is the truth that never comes to any agreement all thios scripture being used with nop power in it all the arguments all the seperation of what truth is this is not ok for me true I am lacking I mess up I speak for God when I shouldn't sometimes but I know Iam on the right path because I am lacking because I don't understand and thus I seek past the norm I go to him directly as mu teacher not what I think is truth to find the truth we have to admot we know nothing
Yes after the viel was torn your absolutely right but until the death of Jesus he spoke interms that were in lign with their culture it is much easier to teach with what is familiar all the wedding reference the parables he spoke all these things aligned with the cuture of that age but once he died and tore the veil the old covanent was shattered yiur right in your thinking with the new covanent but you also have to understand that Jesus walked talked and taught in the old covanent he spoke in terms they could understand especially the wessing aspect
Why should you you ask? Becuase Jesus did
There is no need to go off on a tangent. You can either believe THE WHOLE WORD OF GOD or pick and choose what you like or not like. Mary never preached, or taught, or assumed authority over Joseph.
I don't suppose mary was not given guidance to guide either,
Marriage is commitment where both husband and wife make a vow to honor each other love each other, untill death do they part.
Who has a higher honor in honor.
Surely honor is honor, is it not.
Why don't you understand?
Does the husband in the Bible simply mean the husband in the secular world?
Can a promiscuous husband be a priest?
Can a murdering husband be a priest?
There is only one husband in the Bible, and that is Jesus.The church is his bride.We believers all carry feminine identity metaphors.It is wrong for a believer to replace her husband's authority.It is wrong if a believer's theory is to replace the authority of Jesus.
Do you still insist on your own opinions?
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