Women Pastors
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I know what Paul is clearly saying here. He's saying women are the easier ones to be deceived. Oddly enough, I looked up reasons for divorce, specifically a cheating spouse. Men are the ones deceiving the women 35% more of the time having extra marital affairs. In other related studies women are more deceived than men.
It just appears bad when you flip it around because men are the deceivers and liars more than women. But even though a man can lie to the congregation behind the pulpit, he's more qualified because it's harder for him to be deceived. It's what the Bible states and we go by the Bible, but that seems like there's no justice to such a conclusion.
It just appears bad when you flip it around because men are the deceivers and liars more than women. But even though a man can lie to the congregation behind the pulpit, he's more qualified because it's harder for him to be deceived. It's what the Bible states and we go by the Bible, but that seems like there's no justice to such a conclusion.
Well, yeah, Paul is saying that women should not have authority over men in church or teach in church because Eve was deceived (along with Adam being formed first). I don't think men should be lying in church though. I think it's about who's able to function in such a role and not about being "just" about the situation.
The church of Ephesus is mentioned as 1 of the 7 churches in Asia Minor. I wonder if they were dealing with what verse 6 discusses?
6 Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
I looked up to see if their heresy dealt with women leadership. It does have some women pagan connections. The Doctrine of Balaam, which is the extreme version of the Doctrine of Grace and they encourage self gratitude. The leader, a Deacon appointed by Peter, abandoned his wife and allowed whoever to go to her and do as they please. They also were associated with the worship of Aphrodite's.
But as far as what Paul was writing, maybe the "Nicolaitans" have something to do with it.
6 Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
I looked up to see if their heresy dealt with women leadership. It does have some women pagan connections. The Doctrine of Balaam, which is the extreme version of the Doctrine of Grace and they encourage self gratitude. The leader, a Deacon appointed by Peter, abandoned his wife and allowed whoever to go to her and do as they please. They also were associated with the worship of Aphrodite's.
But as far as what Paul was writing, maybe the "Nicolaitans" have something to do with it.
That Church is invalid, and if they can't find a male Pastor then they could either advertise to find one or the members should close it down and join another Church where they have a legitimate qualified Minister.
Churches are closing down all over the place, that's nothing new. It's better to close than become illegitimate and impotent.
Churches are closing down all over the place, that's nothing new. It's better to close than become illegitimate and impotent.
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Your right there isn't a single verse which says that, but there are much more damning ones for those who believe in equality such as;
1Timothy 2:12-14 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
The above verses cannot be twisted to mean anything other than what they say. They were not written in parabolical language, so we are forced to accept them on face value, even if we don't like what they're saying.
It clearly says "teach" which means the same thing as preach. It doesn't even allow women to speak, let alone preach. It even states the reason as being the woman was deceived and fell into transgression.
I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want someone who was deceived and fell into transgression teaching me.
The Bible doesn't always spell thigs out in a simple ABC format, sometimes we need to connect the dots.
1Timothy 2:12-14 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
The above verses cannot be twisted to mean anything other than what they say. They were not written in parabolical language, so we are forced to accept them on face value, even if we don't like what they're saying.
It clearly says "teach" which means the same thing as preach. It doesn't even allow women to speak, let alone preach. It even states the reason as being the woman was deceived and fell into transgression.
I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want someone who was deceived and fell into transgression teaching me.
The Bible doesn't always spell thigs out in a simple ABC format, sometimes we need to connect the dots.
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I think Satan is working very hard to make women feel that their role in the hierarchy God had set is inferior to the role of men and this is why you'll even have Christians here on this forum go against what the Bible says.
Satan is a jerk so I don't listen to anything he has to say. I'm female. I don't get to become a pastor in church or other leadership roles clearly set for men. That's fine by me. What's more important is to be obedient to God in whatever rank or hierarchy level He designates for me as a female within the church. There's plenty of work for females to do in God's kingdom. The aim should be to do the best you can to serve God at the rank or level He set you at.
I would recommend that women find their worth in Christ. If you do, then you won't feel restricted and disobey the order set in the Bible. Also when you come across chauvinist pigs (and there are some in the church), their condescension will just slide off your back. You'll also realize that you can choose your leader - if your pastor is a chauvinist pig, just go find a church where the pastor reflects Jesus and gives you the proper respect toward females. If there's none in your area, there are plenty on the internet. Plus you can always ask God for one and He will send one in His own good time.
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Everything you underlined has nothing to do with with women being pastors it speals of how a husband needs one wife what a husband should be but nothing about how women cannot be pastors or guide others God is not sexist he is no respecter of person he uses the willing not the strong not the male or female if a man cannot and will not do what is asked of God he will give it to someone who will.
The kingdom does not rely on gender that is an aspect of this world not his he looks to the heart not gender not anything of you but your heart he decides who he uses not us if gender has that much say then his word is void because he has used womeen in positions men wouldn't take before and we are his children first and formost not man not women his children and his children know his voice
Yhink of this lets say your right what is the role of a pastor? it is to preach and be used by God now lets say someone is dying a women reaches them just in time to save their souls is this not what a pastor does? but lets say your wrong and any women who reads what you say believes it they won't do what God wants and a soul is lost because they aren't pastors they have no authourity
Gender is pointless it comes down to your heart with him your willingness you can be a women and be spiritually as weak as you can get but as long as your heart is with him he will use what is called foolish to show you up
Stop seeing a pastor or leafership as a title or position if that is all it is then how can anyone truly believe? Jesus opposed mans understanding he never mentioned gender or where thewy are ion his kingdom did he? this is the words of God himself and never once did he mention this every other scripture can be left to interpretation but if Jesus himself is speaking take what he says as fact no interpretation no addding or taking away what did he say about his kingdom did he not say it only takes faith? is faith geneder related?
The kingdom does not rely on gender that is an aspect of this world not his he looks to the heart not gender not anything of you but your heart he decides who he uses not us if gender has that much say then his word is void because he has used womeen in positions men wouldn't take before and we are his children first and formost not man not women his children and his children know his voice
Yhink of this lets say your right what is the role of a pastor? it is to preach and be used by God now lets say someone is dying a women reaches them just in time to save their souls is this not what a pastor does? but lets say your wrong and any women who reads what you say believes it they won't do what God wants and a soul is lost because they aren't pastors they have no authourity
Gender is pointless it comes down to your heart with him your willingness you can be a women and be spiritually as weak as you can get but as long as your heart is with him he will use what is called foolish to show you up
Stop seeing a pastor or leafership as a title or position if that is all it is then how can anyone truly believe? Jesus opposed mans understanding he never mentioned gender or where thewy are ion his kingdom did he? this is the words of God himself and never once did he mention this every other scripture can be left to interpretation but if Jesus himself is speaking take what he says as fact no interpretation no addding or taking away what did he say about his kingdom did he not say it only takes faith? is faith geneder related?
I would also like to point out that every Church member is of equal value in the Body of Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church and we are His body. Every member of that body is precious.
The Church elders are just like the other members, they never ask for any special treatment and nobody looks up to them as being any better than the rest of us. The only difference is, they have more responsibilities. They have to be available at all times to give counsel or any other kind of support to members who may be in some kind of need.
Folks shouldn't automatically assume that God values men more than women, just because He placed a greater burden on the men in the Church. Women still have very important roles, such as Sunday School teachers and other hospitality roles, such as visiting people in nursing homes and hospitals. And lets not forget the biggest and most important role in the Church and that being raising Children in a Godly way.
Every member has different gifts, so we can all be a blessing to the Church in our own way. Nobody should ever make themselves out to be more important or better in any way. We're equal in God's sight
The Church elders are just like the other members, they never ask for any special treatment and nobody looks up to them as being any better than the rest of us. The only difference is, they have more responsibilities. They have to be available at all times to give counsel or any other kind of support to members who may be in some kind of need.
Folks shouldn't automatically assume that God values men more than women, just because He placed a greater burden on the men in the Church. Women still have very important roles, such as Sunday School teachers and other hospitality roles, such as visiting people in nursing homes and hospitals. And lets not forget the biggest and most important role in the Church and that being raising Children in a Godly way.
Every member has different gifts, so we can all be a blessing to the Church in our own way. Nobody should ever make themselves out to be more important or better in any way. We're equal in God's sight
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There is no need to twist Scripture to understand as I do. There is, however, a need to understand the context and to interpret the passage within that context rather than treating the text like it stands on its own.
If you honestly think that Paul (and, by extension, God Himself) is saying that all women were deceived when Eve was deceived, then I challenge you to explain why, in Romans 16, Paul praised so many women. They must have spoken in the Church to earn the praise Paul gives. Further, he praises Prisca (Priscilla) specifically as a teacher.
So, instead of sniping at me because I believe something different than you do, do your homework and come to a conclusion that makes sense of ALL relevant passages.
If you honestly think that Paul (and, by extension, God Himself) is saying that all women were deceived when Eve was deceived, then I challenge you to explain why, in Romans 16, Paul praised so many women. They must have spoken in the Church to earn the praise Paul gives. Further, he praises Prisca (Priscilla) specifically as a teacher.
So, instead of sniping at me because I believe something different than you do, do your homework and come to a conclusion that makes sense of ALL relevant passages.
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I agree. However, if Paul is saying that because there was prevalent teaching among the pagans that Eve was formed first and was not deceived, and he is refuting that claim rather than explaining why "women can't teach", then it is a context-specific statement.
Consider how many women would have attended synagogue and learned Torah... somewhere between very few and zero. Indeed, one of the rabbis actually wrote, "Rather let Torah be burned than taught to a woman". Paul is shattering that norm by saying, in essence, "Let the women learn Scripture!" He adds, "in silence" which is also appropriate for the male students. The gist of the whole passage changes entirely.
Instead of saying, "If you have two X chromosomes, you have inherited Eve's propensity for gullibility and are therefore restricted forever from vocalizing in the Christian assembly", Paul is saying, "Also let the women learn like the men do, but let those who were teachers of pagan falsehood be restricted from teaching in the Church until they have learned Christian truth".
Consider how many women would have attended synagogue and learned Torah... somewhere between very few and zero. Indeed, one of the rabbis actually wrote, "Rather let Torah be burned than taught to a woman". Paul is shattering that norm by saying, in essence, "Let the women learn Scripture!" He adds, "in silence" which is also appropriate for the male students. The gist of the whole passage changes entirely.
Instead of saying, "If you have two X chromosomes, you have inherited Eve's propensity for gullibility and are therefore restricted forever from vocalizing in the Christian assembly", Paul is saying, "Also let the women learn like the men do, but let those who were teachers of pagan falsehood be restricted from teaching in the Church until they have learned Christian truth".
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