Predestination is misunderstood...
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I go to a church with a pastor. But I realise that propositional knowing is only one kind of knowing, and the most primer one. Arriving at the perfect set of truth claims in this life is not the purpose of Christianity. There is also procedural knowing (knowing how to do things), and perspectival knowing (knowing how the same thing looks from different perspectives) and big picture knowing (knowing how all the many parts and perspectives co-ordinate together). By growing in all these forms of knowledge we are to grow together as a body into a maturity that expresses Christ. Most churches and Christians are fixated on propositional knowing. We change our truth claims as our information increases. Holding on to and defending your church's or your denomination's statement of faith (truth claims) or your systematic theology's truth claims is going to stop you growing in the other three ways of knowing and becoming a mature, wise and good Christian.
Trying to get to Heaven is impossible for man (Mark 10:26-27) which is why Christ came. It is only when a person is brought to see that there is no righteousness within themselves that they begin to look outside of themselves to Him alone who can make all things possible by grace through faith in Christ.
God brings His people to wits end and causes them to cry out to Him to give them a new heart so that they can obey His just command to repent and believe. Repentance and faith are fruits of salvation and not conditions unto salvation.
God brings His people to wits end and causes them to cry out to Him to give them a new heart so that they can obey His just command to repent and believe. Repentance and faith are fruits of salvation and not conditions unto salvation.
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so you've just posted this image
And now your saying what I've just wrote is back to front, which actually makes everything fit into place
Thunderrr-mental said:
God changed the cause of predestination for man after the fall.
The cause was set originally, so that man could walk with God in his garden.
If the original cause had stayed the same, mankind would have stayed in his Garden, and multiplied in his garden.
That never happened as unforseen circumstances altered the cause of mankind.
You had the devine counsel in the beginning living in present time with God, who all decided together how the image of man should be created in there image in present time.
At this time no plans where made to set a new creation, ie Adam and eve to live in past time.
So man was created equal, in an image that was free to choose, innocent and with out shame, of who there father was.
Protected in a heavenly garden, there was no need for God to know what Adam and eve would do next.
After they sinned in Garden, then there path changed, and this is where the plan was made to save man.
Where by man was banished from the garden and made to live in time that falls behind Gods time, So God could know everything man would do before they did it.
This of course also change God's will that's lives in all man, because God has now imprisoned his own will in man, so that man will never be free to choose or have free will, unless it is in accordance with his will.
Each and every man now has this will and this seed in him
Every man is chosen for adoption, but not everyman will be adopted.
The end. 😊
And now your saying what I've just wrote is back to front, which actually makes everything fit into place
Thunderrr-mental said:
God changed the cause of predestination for man after the fall.
The cause was set originally, so that man could walk with God in his garden.
If the original cause had stayed the same, mankind would have stayed in his Garden, and multiplied in his garden.
That never happened as unforseen circumstances altered the cause of mankind.
You had the devine counsel in the beginning living in present time with God, who all decided together how the image of man should be created in there image in present time.
At this time no plans where made to set a new creation, ie Adam and eve to live in past time.
So man was created equal, in an image that was free to choose, innocent and with out shame, of who there father was.
Protected in a heavenly garden, there was no need for God to know what Adam and eve would do next.
After they sinned in Garden, then there path changed, and this is where the plan was made to save man.
Where by man was banished from the garden and made to live in time that falls behind Gods time, So God could know everything man would do before they did it.
This of course also change God's will that's lives in all man, because God has now imprisoned his own will in man, so that man will never be free to choose or have free will, unless it is in accordance with his will.
Each and every man now has this will and this seed in him
Every man is chosen for adoption, but not everyman will be adopted.
The end. 😊
According to your logic there is no Trinity because the word is not found anywhere in Scripture as you demand.
Everyone is born a child of the devil and hence spiritually dead to God and only when they are born again, they are made into new creations and become children of God (2 Cor 5:17).
The apostle John made this very clear.
1Jn 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
Both John the Baptist and Christ called people brood of vipers which means children of the serpent and they are those whose father is the devil and spring from the seed of the serpent (Gen 3:15) which are also called in Scripture goats and not sheep, tares and not wheat, vessels of wrath and not vessels of honour, the reprobate and not the elect.
Those who die in their sin will prove themselves to be reprobates, never chosen by God for salvation and are eternally and justly hated by Him.
Everyone is born a child of the devil and hence spiritually dead to God and only when they are born again, they are made into new creations and become children of God (2 Cor 5:17).
The apostle John made this very clear.
1Jn 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
Both John the Baptist and Christ called people brood of vipers which means children of the serpent and they are those whose father is the devil and spring from the seed of the serpent (Gen 3:15) which are also called in Scripture goats and not sheep, tares and not wheat, vessels of wrath and not vessels of honour, the reprobate and not the elect.
Those who die in their sin will prove themselves to be reprobates, never chosen by God for salvation and are eternally and justly hated by Him.
The doctrine of predestination is the most hated doctrine by man because it shows man his dusthood and clayness so that man can experience what took Nebuchadnezzar seven years to find out and humbly submit to Him in all things.
Act 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
Act 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
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so you say here that man was created in an image that was of satan.
Based On Jesus saying to the Israelites you are of your father the devil.
But yet I have scripture confirming more than one heavenly being helped in the creation of man. When God said let us make man in our image, and you reject it after what you said 🤔
But what ye don't know at this stage is satan fell after man was created. 😊
Based On Jesus saying to the Israelites you are of your father the devil.
But yet I have scripture confirming more than one heavenly being helped in the creation of man. When God said let us make man in our image, and you reject it after what you said 🤔
But what ye don't know at this stage is satan fell after man was created. 😊
No. The concept of the Trinity is based on interpretation of biblical texts, but is not a truth claim that can be tested against any of our experiences of reality. it is therefore reasonable to accept it if one sees it in scripture.
That we are born in the image of the devil, or unable to do good, is an interpretation of biblical texts by SOME, that does not match reality as we experience it. Atheist can love others and give their lives to save others. Atheists can tell the truth to their own hurt. Others logically interpret the very same texts in such a way that atheists can do good, which matches reality. So it is not reasonable to accept the assertions of SOME, that man is totally depraved or incapable of doing good.
That we are born in the image of the devil, or unable to do good, is an interpretation of biblical texts by SOME, that does not match reality as we experience it. Atheist can love others and give their lives to save others. Atheists can tell the truth to their own hurt. Others logically interpret the very same texts in such a way that atheists can do good, which matches reality. So it is not reasonable to accept the assertions of SOME, that man is totally depraved or incapable of doing good.
Total depravity doesn't posit that man is totally corrupt in degree. It says that he is corrupt in every facet.
The Bible, however, says none are good; no, not one. Jesus also said that only God is good. Why? It's not that man cannot do some things that appear good, but the natural man can do nothing by faith. And anything not of faith is sin. Consequently, every action on his part is sinful whether it appears to another to be good or not.
Obedience isn't just outward but inward also. Just ask Israel. God often said they drew near Him with their lips while their hearts remained far from Him. The natural man is also void of the love of God which is the motivating factor behind all true obedience.
The Bible, however, says none are good; no, not one. Jesus also said that only God is good. Why? It's not that man cannot do some things that appear good, but the natural man can do nothing by faith. And anything not of faith is sin. Consequently, every action on his part is sinful whether it appears to another to be good or not.
Obedience isn't just outward but inward also. Just ask Israel. God often said they drew near Him with their lips while their hearts remained far from Him. The natural man is also void of the love of God which is the motivating factor behind all true obedience.
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You reason that because everybody does faithless things he cannot be faithful. There seems a logical fallacy employed in that reasoning. Lambs and bulls are unable to completely cleanse us because they are only shadows of the substance of Jesus' sacrifice. And I think the greatest part of the substance which was missing in them is that lambs and bull did not actually possess any sort of love for us. And those that believe, and have faith in, that love, are those that actually turn to Him.
They heard that the jews "do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, (and) now we turn to the Gentiles...'to bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'(Acts 13:46-7)"
They heard they were made worthy to become the sons of God...and they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord.
They heard they were made worthy to become the sons of God...and they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord.
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I reason he isn't saved and has no faith. Faith is a gift of God.
The natural man still has functioning minds, hearts, and wills. But they have been corrupted. They can believe and exercise faith. In fact, they must to function in life. But they do not exercise faith towards God. The just shall live by faith. And without exercising faith in God they cannot please God.
The natural man still has functioning minds, hearts, and wills. But they have been corrupted. They can believe and exercise faith. In fact, they must to function in life. But they do not exercise faith towards God. The just shall live by faith. And without exercising faith in God they cannot please God.
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Total depravity means incapable of doing anything acceptable to God unless God regenerates first. One only has to look at the proof texts used to support total depravity and what those using them are asserting those texts teach, to understand what those eisegetes mean by total depravity.
If one takes account of the context of the Psalms and the tenses used in "there is none good, no not one" it is written to the Jews, and says none continuously keeps on doing good. In other words, all have sinned. All need to acknowledge their sins and look in faith to God and Jesus Christ. It is not a statement that nothing anyone does is good, as total inability asserts..
If one takes account of the context of the Psalms and the tenses used in "there is none good, no not one" it is written to the Jews, and says none continuously keeps on doing good. In other words, all have sinned. All need to acknowledge their sins and look in faith to God and Jesus Christ. It is not a statement that nothing anyone does is good, as total inability asserts..